crisis talks last night - think it is over

[regularlyoverwhelmed]

he wants to have sex with other people, he feels he didn't experience enough sexual partners when he was younger
he says he hasn't had an affair, but in an unconvincing way, with just too much of a delay between question and answer
he doesn't know if he wants to stick together and sort it out
he says he is still attracted to me, after a lengthy pause between question and answer
he says he "appreciates" all my efforts to spice up our sex life
he wonders whether we should talk again "next week"
I think I will ask him to leave, I think I've had enough, after 16 years of trying to support him and thinking we had something good together this is what he comes up with
fucking men!

I know, I know, I know

but I've been with him so long, I love him and still find him hugely attractive, although fucked up. We are all fucked up in our own ways but I just can't take teh impact of his fuckedupness anymore. If he doesn't find me attractive and thikns he is incapable of love then I don't want him in my life. I mustn't want him in my life. It drags me down.

I've never been so good on my own

I'm worried about the kids

I feel like puking and want to cry

thanks monitor, it does help to know I am not the only one, it really does

and it helps to get it down in B&W and to see people's honest responses to it written in B&W

I talkedto my best friend here about it all yesterday. She is not happy in her relationship either but her hubby won't talk about it. She didn't say leave. But she said that's because she is a coward and can't do it herself.

arrrrgh

Hi ROW, you are getting some great support here.

Also want to agree about the NOT having sex. I am speaking from experience. I desperately wanted it too, and we would, and the next day h would virtually blank me. It was as though we would start to get on and then take a good few steps backwards.

I know sometimes it is just the contact that you crave. To be held and loved. But really when we had sex, it was just that, sex! Not love or anything tender, which is what I really needed.

Hold on in there you are doing well.

And remember, it is now your choice, not his as to where this relationship is heading. Be strong

ROW, worrying about the children as a single mother (and that feeling like you're carrying their futures on your shoulders alone), it's not a constant feeling. It sometimes comes at me in tidal waves, and I feel overwhelmed by it. But honestly most of the time I am fine and feel like things are under control.

So far up 'til now, I've coped with everything on my own, better! Because I was not stifled by feelings of resentment, or having my decisions questioned, undermined, criticised etc... I did used to panic if I even needed to fill in a form! This has been so good for me. I wasn't the bravest person in the World. If I can do this, you certainly can. HOnestly. It's a myth that we need a relationship, need a man to make life easier. Being in a relationship made my life harder.

Also, now that I'm officially on my own (as opposed to hiding the fact that I was coping alone!) all my family and friends are are extremely supporting and I feel that it's ok take some help. Speaking of which, my friend is here now so I can go for a jog.

I used to worry about the stigma of being a single parent family, but everybody, absolutely everybody has been so kind to me, so concerned and so supportive and so helpful that it has totally restored my faith in human nature, just when I needed that most.

• obviously being in a bad relationship makes life harder. I still know that there are plenty of women lucky enough to have very good relationships. NOT a bitter ol' crone

the thing is, regularlyow, you are the one being practical and he is just not. And time will make him realise that.

he hasn't thought about the children, you say, or the practicalities, he has thought about his own nebulous little thoughts. It's very immature, tbh. I remember thinking like this when I used to write poetry when I was 19.

As everyone has said, it's important not to get dragged into responsibility for his feelings. My mum, bless her, when I was in a relationship with an incredibly intelligent, academic man, said that common sense and intelligence went in inverse proportion - certainly with my ex she was bang on the money, and it sounds similar with your OH too

he can worry all he likes about his inner psyche but not on your time

Glad my post helped ROW I wasn't sure if it would.

Having read through the thread again another similar theme throughout our marriage as you have said in yours was the non fancying and lack of sex.

It was fine for the first few years but esp after I had DC1 he was not very interested. I put on some weight prob went from a size 12 to a size 14/16 and this put him off.

His subtle undermining and refusal to do anything about not wanting sex really chipped away at my self esteem and I believe made my physically ill as well.

So the first thing I did when we split was to consciously build this up again. Having got back into circulation I realise how skewed his views and attitudes were and how they were designed to f* with my head.

Another similarity is that currently it soulds 'all about him' and what he wants. As you say you have tried to support him over the last 16 years but what about what you want?

Just wanted to add that all of the male academics I know are emotionally immature - all have affairs and try and rationalise it and all love the attention they receive from the female students!

I know that in all industries there is the power thing, but from some reason it seems more insidious in academia. If they weren't in that revered position those girls wouldn't look twice at them! And yes JC they do rationalise it - as they do everything!!

I was once in a pub with my exH and a female (mature) student came in, straightened his tie and proceeded to sit on his lap for most of the evenng. He did nothing !!! And I sat there like an idiot. In hindsight should have walked out.

I admit to being flattered by his interest initially, (I was an administrator).

Sorry ROW don't want to hijack your thread and don't know how helpful these musings may be.

I am an academic and spend 6 months of the year watching the male academics flirt with the students - by the end of the teaching term there has usually been at least a couple of tete a tete meetings!

yes, I think it must be so all pervasive in academia that they think it is normal or something - the funny thing about my OH is that he looks down his nose at those middle aged male academics who take BJs from students at parties, have affairs etc but he is no different really. He fantasises about this student who came on to him in a "very provocative" way at a tutorial once, has had at least one one night stand at a conference (ok, maybe not penetrative according to him but that's as likely to have been because he'd had too much to drink as anyhing else, if indeed it's true). He is a decent person, and so claims he feels all abject about these feelings, but he still has them, and thinks he might want to act on them.

citylover - thank you - yes, sounds very very similar (though can't imagine a student ever sitting on my OHs lap for an evening, he'd be mortified - though, really, what do I know!)

i've probably put on a bit of weight too - am about 12-14 now, was 10-12 efore, and have had an injury that has prevented me from exercising so am not as toned as I once was..but you know what, there's a lot that is gorgeous about me too

I've been making more f an effort with my clothes since things have hit rock bottom, and am going out with a friend for dinner tonight and will get dressed up. I need to feel good about myself and attractive now, more than ever.

he is still here. and will stay until at least monday week we decided. In that time he will look into other options and we will consider how to sort things about the kids.

he stills says he doesn't know how he feels and he needs time to think. That's fine, he said that I need time too. I told him I don't that I know exactly where I stand. I willl give him this time to think and see what he says, but as far as I am concerned, unless something radical changes (likes he starts to go for psychosexual counselling alone, or gives up booze, or goes to GP and gets ADs or something - that he thinks of and does himself) then I am out of it.

We need to be careful about handling it with the kids though, and money is tight so moving him into bedsit/whatever will be hard (we are in London, accomodation is incredibly expensive)

one or other of us will go away next weekend I guess

thanks again guys - It is so incredily helpful to have this sounding board and the support to help me stay convinced I am not making a mountain out of a molehill

I had to move out of London too. It was a fresh start. Every time I met somebody I would get to about four or five questions before I found myself telling them my life story! Which was not what I wanted to do, but it was either that or lie.

Now that I am settled in a new area, and 14 months on, I have made some new friends. I make the effort to stay in touch with the people I miss most back in London.

I've also taken up jogging, had a mole removed, my teeth whitened and I've had botox too!! I frowned a lot for years before I left him, but now I'm without that stress I won't even need top up. All for me, just cos I'm worth it. I bet you are gorgeous! Women whose husbands waffle on endlessly about their various fantasies and the morality of acting on them or not acting on them usually are lovely!

ha ha - well I've just had my teeth done so I can smile like this now - thank goodness I did it before I go totally broke...botox - now there's a thought...although from what you say I won't need it as the wrinkles ill simply fade away due to not having to carry everything anymore

you sound like you have managed really well monitor - hats off to you

he is in a foul mood now, just took the kids off swimming and the ranting/raving/shouting was unbearable

still, at least they are gone now so I can chillax and read the paper or sort out laundry in peace or something - oooh, and decide what I will wear to go out tonight

just to be straight though (why? who knows but he is not all awful by any means) he doesn't prattle on endlessly about his fantasies, in fact I fairly pushed him into making the statements he made, and they were very out of characterfor him, and he was drunk, and he felt very abject and ashamed next day

BUT it needed to be said, and I am glad he did and that he is finally being honest, with himself as much as me. He is a nice person, and if he is unhappy he shouldn't be in this relationship. The things that he said simply made it much easier for me to take a strong stand. And he probably regrets that a bit now...

on and up eh?

That's a tad cynical Jazzi - not all male academics are like that.

And there is no law agaist flirting. A 'couple' of hook ups in the whole of you dept is hardly demonstrative al all male academics

Not cynical just observing what I see. The men are all the same - depends on how you react to it, but they are all the same!

How do you mean 'all the same'? All flirting or all fucking about behind their partnesr backs?

And what department?

Mine used to say we couldn't split, not because he wanted to save the marriage but because he would end up in a crappy little bedsit!!

What actually happened is that post split he lived in two immaculate bachelor pads and now shares a large house with his new DP!!!

We are all in London too so know how expensive it is. I am off the property ladder and renting (also very pricey).

They are all quite promiscous - but ALL the men in my department are having affairs either with students or with staff!

Friends and colleagues in other areas have also reiterated the same. I really hope my area is unique but I doubt it!

Of the ones I have worked with over the years most flirt and discuss the female students.

Not so many messing around but have known of several instances.

funnily enough shortly after I mentioned the word "bedsit" he suggested that maybe I was being preemptive and that he could equally ask me to leave. I laughed in his face I am afraid and reminded him of the fact that I wasn't the one not sure if they wanted to shag around and with one fling (meteorological accident or not) already under their belt.

Had a lovely night out with my friend. Cancelled babysitter and left OH to mind kids. No reason for us to spend on babysitters when we no longer need to go out together after all is there. Although felt quite middleaged in the end as I got ready to go. I am NOT 20 anymore. It's a bit of a shocker. I suppose we all get complacent in long term relationships. Anyway, the way my appetite is at the moment I predict an element at least of weight loss, which may help. Should I think about patenting the diet and synicating it do you think?

haha

Yes a few pounds weight loss is one of the only positives to come from a sterssful relationship break up.

Sounds like you are feeling more focused and stronger. Keep that in mind for your weaker moments -

Not such a shaggable prospect is he living in a bedsit. lol

well I feel like shit today...

all I can do is think about all the things he said that he seems to think were harmless, but have just made me wonder what I hell I've been doing for the last 16 years

I took the kids out to the science museum alone today (at least I didn't have to put up with his bored expression for the day). He had mentioned earlier that he could get a flight out of the country next week and asked if I wanted him to go. I couldn't quite figure out the childcare implications (I'll have to take time off) so aid I didn't know

on the journey in I started to get really angry at it all again, thinking over the things he has said, not said, done, not done and the things I have done to try to sort things out while never actually realising that the whole issue was just one of male vanity and dickheadedness. I phoned him to say I thought he should get out of my hair, that I was starting to feel really angry. His response? An incredulous "at me?"

this is so devastating, I can't quite believe it

he is saying nothing. trying to be all "supportive" and do what I need. Ha ha ha. He is going off next Wednesday. Transpires he'll get home just in time to see his sister in a play before she leaves for australia, and get to celebrate her graduation too. Lovely for some.

I feel like such a fool

Don't have any advice but angry can be good and cathartic. Just wanted you to know we're still here for you ((((())))).

If he does go next week think of the positive, a week without him gives you space to plan your next move.... ( yes it really is a bit like chess )

Thinking of you

Ps def not a fool, you persevered, you tried you did all the right things but unfortunately you are only one half of the equation and if the other half is as throughly dickheaded as your posts suggests then you can't work miricles and you have to enjoy your life

well, we had a long chat last night, without influence of alcohol, and he really seems to be thinking very deeply about the whole thing. We talked about a number of the arenas where I expect more from him (less alcohol, more affection, taking more responsibility)and he admits that he hasn't been good in these areas. He is obviously having a real mid life crisis. He says he hated himself after the session last week but at least for the first time he is thinking about all this stuff and his role in it. He said he does still find me sexually attractive and arousing but as he gets older he is fancying other women. He thinks is linked to the mid-life business and the whole sense of loss of youth and possibility. Appartantly he doesn't necessarily want to do anything about it. He needs to decide whether he is brave enough to take the next move and actually get his head out of the sand and deal with this stuff that our conversation unleased. He wants to go to our counsellor on his own and talk it all through with her. I think this is a good idea.Unlike me he doesn't have any confidantes (well, apart from me) and she is an uninvolved external observer with a lot of experience of couples going through this kind of thing. He is still in spare room, although we had a hug last night. JUST a hug.
he will go away on wednesday to visit his family (and hopefully actually do hard some thinking rather than hard drinking) and we will talk again.

I feel so much better. A lot of the things he said I think had been blown out of proportion in my head. Or maybe that is just me trying to cling on. I feel I want to see how this goes for the next weeks or month. But I told him I am not waiting indefinately for him to "sort himself out" - there need to be tangible efforts like going to counselling, cutting out/radically reducing booze, etc etc.

am I being a fool? there are two kids involved and I feel I owe it to them to give one last try (and to myself I guess - it's been 16 years, we do have a lot of good together) Anyway, he may still come back and say he doesn't think it is worth trying to effect all these changes in himself