crisis talks last night - think it is over

[regularlyoverwhelmed]

he wants to have sex with other people, he feels he didn't experience enough sexual partners when he was younger
he says he hasn't had an affair, but in an unconvincing way, with just too much of a delay between question and answer
he doesn't know if he wants to stick together and sort it out
he says he is still attracted to me, after a lengthy pause between question and answer
he says he "appreciates" all my efforts to spice up our sex life
he wonders whether we should talk again "next week"
I think I will ask him to leave, I think I've had enough, after 16 years of trying to support him and thinking we had something good together this is what he comes up with
fucking men!

yep lizzie - i had a session on my own last week and think it enabled me to try to bringthings to a head and not let him avoid things anymore - which led us to last night/this morning

no idea how I can hold everything together. I work pretty much full time and have no family here

bollox

VVV speaks sense.

Why make let him make all the decisions about something that affects your entire family?

Don't drink.

But I think you need to firmly tell him that he needs to move out and that needs to start asap because you need some space to think.

Go to counselling on your own, too.

oh love I'm sorry you're going through this xxx

thanks bundle

and expat you are right - he will have to go for a while at least

I feel sick

he has just texted to say there was a lie (this refers to when I asked about an affair/fling - he hesitated just long enough for me to know it was a lie when he said no) but it was about soemthing very minor and whatever I feel about the rest I shouldn't worry about that. Oh, that's good then.

Sounds a bit like my h.

Do you think he is waiting for you to kick him out, then he can say it was your decision, not his?

Our counsellor said that it sounded like that is what my h wanted. He didn't want to be here but he didn't want to be the one making the choice. Lack of balls imo!

My h also mentioned the lack of sexual partners before we married being one of the reasons for not wanting to be married anymore. I dont think that matters. If you love and want to be with someone then it shouldn't matter how many others you have had sex with.

It could be that your h has already had an affair. The delay in answering questions is suspicious. My h was the same.

My h is now blaming a mid-life crisis!! We are currently trying again, but I am still not sure where his head is.

If you would feel better on your own for a while, give it a go. You may feel better for it

sorry - x-post, didn't see your last post about affair

oh stirlingmum your DH might as well be mine! down to the last detail

did you ask him to leave for a while?

Mine definately doesn't want to make any decisions - he never has... part of what got us into this sorry mess

he cited the old mid life crisis too

fuckin' pathetic

PATHETIC

The mid-life crisis label is so handy for these errant hubbys!

Why don't woman have them? Or do we have the same feelings and just ignore/bury them?

We never really separated but he worked away so much that we did spent quite a bit of time apart.

The lack of responsibility re decisions drove me mad!! I would ask him a question and the answer, usually, was "I dont know" - Aaaarrrggghhh ! He also said some horrible things that I have trouble dealing with now. You dont know whether that is how he feels now or it was some kind of madness talking.

Funnily enough, I feel so much stronger now. If it ever comes back to him not knowing whether he wants to be here or not I know I can make the decision for him. And I will be ok, sad and angry, but ok.

yes, isn't it handy though. Well, I guess we get to have menopauses. Way hay!

jesus, of course I think about having sex with other people, indeed I had a great old crush on a guy I worked with and had we both been single would have jumped his bones big time...

but i am after a monogamous relationship and I love(d) my DH and figured we could get enough from each other if we only put our minds to it

I guess someone would argue it's biological

well FUCK it - I don't care

led by their dicks and suffering fucking arrested development is how I see it

(can you tell my sympathy levels have fallen to an all time low here?)

god I hope things work out for you stirlingmum, in whatever way that might transpire to be.

RegularlyOverwhelmed, I just saw your question on your other thread, and yes, I did end up splitting with my x.

My dc1's constant whinging and moaning abated almost immediately. She became more confident. She stopped wetting her knickers. (she was 4). I know it was for the best for her. Her Dad wasn't even a bad Dad, it was just that our relationship was OVER, and the atmosphere was permanently hideous. I had really underestimated the effect it would have on her. I thought that she would be unaware. But obviously her father's lack of respect for me, and my misery, I think they were palpable . Although she could never have articulated WHAT was wrong, she clearly understood things were wrong.

Our family is unconventional now, as they say! But it is functional, and happy. I feel liberated being in charge of my own happiness. Nobody else's mood can drag me down.. Every night I get into the single bed, alone, but instead of feeling lonely I feel elated that I was brave enough to leave. I could so easily be living that parallel universe where I just clung on hoping things would get better.

I really identified wiht what you said about your parents marriage, and maybe we have too high expectations. I wondered all of that too. I really thought, maybe Ican just get through life and find happiness from other things. My friends, my children, a job, books etc! But it isn't possible to be happy when you're carrying the weight of somebody else's problems or unhappiness.

The other answer, yes, there were several moments when I knew "I have to leave this man. I knew absolutely that I would. But I didn't pluck up the courage to do it that very secodn. I just coasted for a while, knowing what decision I'd made.

I'm glad things are so much better for you now naughtiestgirl

I think you summed it up when you said
"carrying the weight of somebody else's problems or unhappiness" - that's exactly what I have been doing. And I don't want to do it anymore.

must put kids to bed now. and prepare for him breezing in shortly with his little takeaway.

btw - thanks for all the support - it's helping me keep calm (and away from the booze, cos I actually just fancy getting wasted and throwing something at him)

hi there-

just read your posts, I think that it would be best to have space from each other (make him leave, especially if he has had an affair)

it sound like a very similar situation to a good friend of mine, she eventually left her partner of 12 years, and now is about 100 times happier.

she found out how much he had been knocking her confidence bit by bit, he too was a drinker (no too excess but bad enough, he too had an affair) she found the affair the final straw (it's the lying bit)

be strong, get him to leave, (she moved eventually to a much smaller house, but the kids and her are so much happier that it doesn't matter, - she ended up better off due to tax credits etc, and has more time to herself as he has the kids for two weekends a month, her daughters have blossomed too )

poor you, it took her time, she was in shock for about 4 months after finding out - but felt much better after telling his mother about it!

thanks noonki, good to hear those turned out ok stories - cos it feels so outrageously hard right now

he is home now so I suppose I'll have to talk to him, once kids are settled

[grimace]

I think you are right, regularlyoverwhelmed, we must be biologically different. I know some women have affairs, but I believe men are worse, and this mid-life thing seems to panic them into finding someone new to shag!

When I told my sister (eventually) about my h's affair, she actually said "Well, honestly, if a gorgeous 29yr old man made a pass at you, you would have had trouble refusing"!!

But the truth is I wouldn't - I would have been flattered, but the thought of risking a happy family, and upsetting dc, for a shag?? No, I wouldn't!

apparantly he didn't have an affir, just a fling that didn't come to anything (pardon pun) ie no penetrative sex. They did share a bed. But get this, it was all an accident, even better a "meteorological accident" - probe further and you'll find that it was raining and there were no taxis and so thay had to share a bed. WHen I asked why he didn't sleep on the floor I was told he thought of that but it was only a single bed. what?

anyway, there was little shock when I told him I thought it needed to be over...more of a resignedness and a "I don't think I ^really" meant what I said" along with a "i've known for some time I don't give you as much love etc as you deserve"

then he says he is depressed and he is tired of being depressed, so I said maybe try not drinking 70 units or so of known depression medicine (alcohol) every week...but he tried that last January for a couple of weeks and he still felt depressed

pah. Men!

anyway, I told him that it's now totally up to him - as far as I am concerned it's over, I am no longer in the role of saviour of the relationship amd if he actually wants to save it (we went out for dinner by himself tonight - it was all a bit glum apparantly!!!) he has to proactively do something and convince me it has meaning - no more weasle words

oh, who knows

needless to say I want to have sex with him now...is there something about the end of relationships or something? I mustn't do that...I am still and he is still pathetic. Am not looking forward to sleeping alone tonight though

Was lurking earlier and read your posts I just popped back to see how yuou're doing.... whatever you do don't sleep with him it will only mess your head up further, sure it may be a great shag but if he still hasn't got a pair of balls and isn't able to articulate what he wants out of the relationship by morning ( unlikely by current standards) you will just feel even more used and belittled.

As for sleeping alone enjoy it, nah relish it think of it of the physical space in your head that you're creating ( that made sense to me honest!

Steady your resolve, you need to do this whatever happens tomorrow he gets to know that you mean business and he needs top sort his shit out whatever.

As for the we only slept next to each other I think the jury may be out on that one!

God I was married to an academic (not generalising here honest) and I used to scream at him to just be honest with himself and me.

It's all very well bamboozling you with what the definition of honesty is but the bottom line is that we all know what honesty is and there is nothing worse than having someone rationalise or detach themselves from what is really going on in a relationship.

I also (unfortunately) work in an academic environment (as a manager not an academic) and I observe some of my externally austere and respected male colleagues being extremely flattered and even really getting off froom attention from female students (from undergrad to Phd level) and commenting on them.

At first when I worked in academia this shocked me (( must have been so naive and saw a conflict between equality/lip service to respecting women and their behaviour) but am now world weary and cynical about it all. I think the thing that grates is that is not honest and out there. TBH I would rather be with a man that is more honest about things IYSWIM.

This is not meant to be a rant about academics (honestly) but a post of support to you and the situation you are in.

My ex did not say as much as yours but I know that originally he did not want to get married or have children. Though no-one forced him into it. Although he denied being unfaithful I am fairly sure he was and def continued with his ladies man persona throughout our marriage.

Ironically he has gone on to have two more children within two years of us splitting. I think his partner is a former mature student (though not entirely sure).

He was always depressed as well (perhaps it goes with the terrority) but would never do anything about it.

I am so much happier since I split with him, my main frustration is having to deal with him still over access issues etc.

And I do find the responsibility of being a single parent overwhelming. BUT I could not continue with him (was with him for 15 years altogether) as it was starting to affect my sanity.

He didn't drink much at home but did go out alot and was unpleasant after a few drinks.

His world view of rationality and detachment was also incredibly depressing. It's as if he applied academic theories to his personal life.

God that was a long cathartic post but I hope it helped. Hope it doesn't kill the thread.!!!!

well, got through night one - bit of sobbing to start with but then I just got cross again. One of his other lines last night was "oh maybe I am someone who just can't love"

thanks doris - you are right - I will try to remember that thing about physical space when I am wavering, as am sure I will if we are living in same house for a while

citylover - you don't know how much your post means. That is exactly EXACTLY it. this application of these detached abstractions is totally exhausting. My problem is that I have always listened, and tried to understand, and end up feeling sorry for him that he is so confused. But ultimately I don't think it is confusion, he just doesn't want to admit it, he doesn't want to think about this stuff "honestly" because he won't like what he sees. We used to laugh together about exactly those male academics that you describe. He hates the idea of them, but I suppose it is hard to be the object of all this female attention He is an avowed feminist blah blah blah

anyway, he'll either surprise me by rising up and sorting himself out or he won't. I think I must assume he won't and just get on with things. But I am wavering a little because of the kids.

Please please stay with me guys. I am very worried I'll waver without support and reminding that this is the right thing...it seems a bit pathetic to be relying on strangers over the internet but at least you can view things objectively.

We have a counselling appointment towards the end of the month. I might see if I can get something earlier.

ho hum

ROW - you are doing well and what an awful a situation to be in.

I think you have to be careful handing him the power - it is up to you....

It is not up to him. It is up to you to sort your life out with or with out him. Your choice as it is your life.

I think you need to get him out . At least for the weekend - or you go away for the weekend.

But nothing will really get better while he is closeted in your home, seeing his children etc etc - he needs to feel what it is like out there - It is not much fun in a bedsit!

thanks beetroot - I think I need to print this thread out and keep it with me at all times...he might get a little suspicious when I keep stopping to consult a couple of sheets of A4 in the middle of things but hey...

I don't really have anywhere to go, I will ask him to leave for weekend though I think, he should be able to sort something out

we had babysitter booked for tonight to go over to another couple house for dinner - he said last night "but we could still go, we get on well don't we?" what planet is he on? anyway, sitter is booked and I have told my pal that we probably won't be coming due to crisis talks. She hasasked if I want to go out for dinner/drinks just with her so I might do that. Or I might stay in, wash my hair, have a bath, use a face mask and go to bed early...

do you know what he said last night when I said I thought he needed to leave - oh maybe I could get a cheap flat in town...(he'd love that, in some ways, little bachelor pad in teh heart of things) his face when I pointed out to him that he would need to be around to drop the kids to school every day (I start work at 7.30 so leave house about 6.45am) so needed to be close-by was a picture - he hasn't thought about them once in all of this, didn't even mention them last night

wait til he realises we will actually have to leave our nice house in the nice area we live in to move further out to a less desirable area where we can afford two places...

the man has no idea

I will remain strong...after 16 year sof it I need to make the break now or accept that I don't have the balls either

Don't worry about relying on strangers on the internet to give you advice!

In my rL, all my friends were in happy relationships. Their husbands or partners were all sane, happy, decent, supportive, treated them with respect.

I felt like the ONLY person who'd just cockd things up. My friends' idea of a problem would have been the neighbours objected to their planning request to extend their kitchen.

In May 2007, I posted a thread on another forum, and explained the dynamics of my relationship, and why I was so unhappy and lonely. I don't what I expected to hear. Maybe, still in coward mode at the time, I hoped to read "stick at it", "endure it", but no, post after post after post from women I'd never met appeared telling me to leaving him and start being happy.

If you leave this man, you won't HAVE to analyse his every word or action. It won't be your responsibility to try and make sense of it all anymore!

I had to make some drastic life changes, and there were days when I was pushing a buggy along crying, hoping I wouldn't see anybody I knew! But now it's done, and it's behind me, and I'm settled in my 'new' life, I find it hard to believe how difficult a decision it was to leave!