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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Found DH looking at porn tonight, feel so angry and upset and unattractive

119 replies

rubyblue · 16/08/2008 21:10

I know I'm probably overreacting and that most men look at porn but can't believe that I found my DH doing it tonight, secretly and furtively in the bedroom whilst i was cooking dinner! He tried to lie to me but then quickly admitted that he looks at it sometimes and kept saying not often but how on earth am I supposed to know or believe him? I tried to be relaxed about it and not kick up a massive fuss but was quite upset.
And the more I've thought about it over the past couple of hours, the angrier I feel. I did tell him that I don't look like those women (especially not post baby - in all regions!) so it makes me feel crap to know that he gets off on that kind of thing. I'm only now just feeling a bit sexier (ds 7 months old, given up breastfeeding, lost some weight and finally enjoying sex again) but feel like any confidence I had in my body has been shattered again. I feel tearful now thinking about it and seeing those images of siliconed women with their legs open just makes me feel awful. How can men find that attractive?
Am I completely overreacting? I don't know what to say to DH. He's in the other room and I can't bear to sit with him. I feel like if I try and explain how I'm feeling he will think I'm being really repressed. But I now feel so insecure and the fact that he's lied about it. Oh god, please someone give me some advice. Has this happened to you?

OP posts:
largeblackandwhitecat · 19/08/2008 19:50

perhaps I can give a husband's perspective. I don't think rubyblue is overeacting: watching porn while your wife cooks the dinner is pretty crap really isn't it?
I am also suprised at how many women seem to think she is making a fuss about nothing and also say they like to watch porn theselves.
Porn isn't really sex anyway, it is a product aimed at an adolesant and distinctly male idea of sex. From what I've seen (and we are talking coventional stuff here, nothing nasty or weird) I don't believe any woman would get anything out of it at all.
I suspect it is all part of the current trend where in order to be "one of the boys" and not "uptight" women have to tolerate or even pretend to like porn, lap-dancing, strippers etc.
whatever happened to the feminist movement?

babyinacorner · 19/08/2008 20:16

largeblackandwhitecat - totally agree with what you have said! can't add anything else really...

OrmIrian · 19/08/2008 20:20

It really is no big deal. You backed him into a corner so he had to admit to it.

Do you really and honestly beleive that he will only ever fancy you for the rest of his life? Will you, hand on heart, honestly only ever fancy him until the day you die? Porn is a harmless way to let off steam.

And BTW, IME most men prefer the real flesh and blood woman they have, to any number of silicon fantasies.

forestfern · 19/08/2008 20:25

Spouting pseudo-intellectual rubbish and trying to analyse a modern problem are different things. Anybody sounds dogmatic when they are making points. It is debate. Since this is a problem of modern-day life and media availability - we did not even have electricity or the TV one old persons lifetime ago - and it affects relationships, destroys romance and sometimes love, and can certain destroy family life - values being obsviously important there - then it is important to look at all the angles and possibilities. not to hide away within platitudes and cliches. Pity we do not have more male input.

ShinyHappyPeopleHoldingHands · 19/08/2008 20:27

Forestfern is talking a scary amount of sense' it's just not comfortable to admit it. Much easier to dismiss it as sexist Freuidian claptrap.

I read the outraged comments first and then scrolled down fully expecting to think it was claptrap too. But it isn't. A majority of men, I feel, are pretty much as she describes. Sad but true. And, as she says, if you have an exception to the "rule" bloody value him!

Jazzicatz · 19/08/2008 20:28

Forestfern its not a 'modern' problem though is it? Pornography has been around much longer then people realise. The mediums in which it is available has increased obviously - but to state that its a thoroughly modern phenomenom is incorrect.

ShinyHappyPeopleHoldingHands · 19/08/2008 20:32

The availability of it is modern and therein lies the modern problem! It's there, it's free, it's so so easy to for them (men) to allow themselves to fall into, to get interactive with, to get addicted to. No they won't ALL get this into it, but the contemporary availabilty means than can and a great many do.

Jazzicatz · 19/08/2008 20:33

Yes but porn per se is not new.

dittany · 19/08/2008 20:33

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

OrmIrian · 19/08/2008 20:34

Surely the problem isn't the porn. It's the desire to use it. The need to get your rocks off with something other than just your partner - or more often than with your partner. And I think that is a side effect of monogamy.

Jazzicatz · 19/08/2008 20:37

Dittany - mysogony was alive and kicking 50 years ago and in many respects was even worse. The second wave of feminism thirsty years ago was a result of a sex industry that exploited women as much as today.

largeblackandwhitecat · 19/08/2008 21:40

I don't really think anyone has the right to tell the OP she is being unreasonable. If she is uncomfortbale with her partner looking at porn she has a perfect right to express that feeling, and to make up her own mind about whether and on what basis she wants to continue a relationship with him. To tell her she ought to accept it because all men do it is stupid and impertinent. I also share Dittany's confusion as to why so many women aren't worried about the fact that men enjoy material which a lot of the time portrays women in a pretty revolting way. The verbal abuse is the least of it. I wouldn't want any kind of a relationship with a man who enjoyed looking at this stuff.

dittany · 19/08/2008 21:49

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ActingNormal · 19/08/2008 22:35

Do you find other men visually attractive, eg famous men, maybe even more attractive than you find your DH? How likely is it that you will end up with the person who you think is the most attractive person you have ever seen? Does this mean that you would leave your DH for one of those men if they 'offered'? You wouldn't would you!, I don't think you would and I don't think your DH would leave you for one of those 'porn women'. Because, relationships are not only about sex, and sex isn't even only about looks!

You are with each other because you have your own unique emotional/intellectual connection with each other as well as sex. The other things that DH gets from you are really important to him as well as the sex. He has probably stayed with you through long periods of no sex (eg during pregnancy) because he wants YOU, not just your body for sex.

I can understand why it has temporarily made you feel insecure but I think it is unrealistic to expect each other not to find anyone else attractive.

solidgoldbrass · 19/08/2008 22:52

Oh no, women 50/100 years ago didn't have to worry about their partners looking at porn. In the Victorian era they only had to worry about their partners paying for sex and perhaps contracting syphilis as the preventative/curative treatments were pretty rubbish: other than that Hubby in middle class homes just fucked the kitchen maids and chucked them out if they got pregnant. Oh, and if Hubby tired of Wifey she'd be out on the streets with no money and no access to the children because despite all the sentimental guff about motherhood, children were seen as men's property...

But I do think that a lot of posters on these threads are using the term 'porn' to indicate 'sexually-explicit material that I DON'T LIKE' rather than sexually explicit material in general. There is a lot of diversity in porn, both in theme and in the types of human beings presented as sexy and desirable. Many couples watch/look at porn together, quite a lot of women look at porn of some kind when alone.

And Andrea Dworkin was fucking mental someone with very extreme views: according to her, all heterosexual intercourse is rape because women are incapable of choosing to have penie-vaginal intercourse and if they think they like penis-vagina intercourse they are stupid brainwashed.

forestfern · 19/08/2008 23:34

Will try spacing!

I think that just as we all have different personalities - though with overlap areas - the sexual personality must be the same - different for all of us. I once read that there are no two sets of ears the same?? Maybe not even a single ear! Hear, here!

Misogyny/Polygamy ? there must be many different reasons why people do this Porn thing.

It must be confusing though when there is too much desire from the partner to watch something voyeuristically that the other partner will not/cannot provide and also that the other partner does not identify with.

The male poster here - always a brave one and usually does not return to this forum of tigresses for fear of seeming ?less? manly and being eaten alive - ?what could women possibly see in it??.

Given the threat of threesomes and orgies - admittedly that cannot be provided safely, intimately and in a truly loving setting without serious threat to the ?coupling? process! Both men and women share this fantasy at a superficial level. But if there is too much of the lewd, vulgar or even misogynistic in what the man has viewed - surely this then says something about his sexual ?personality?.

?Sexual Compatibility? is something taken for granted maybe when we go into relationships?

Women are generally more romantic and erotic - another point - that men want to keep this in check since our whole body is an erogenous zone - and this is a threat to some - unlike theirs, mostly. And are we more the sexual predators than they are - forgetting love and given free reign? Erotica? Particularly not for the males where nothing happens until ?then? and then only for 60 seconds!

If you get on with your partner, share a similar sense of humour - and think all is well - and possibly have not examined the ?value sets? enough - and then ? wham, bam, thank you ma?am" appears in the Yahoo History - or worse - texts ?hello big boy, blah blah blah? or something dodgy on the phone bill, credit card etc ?

? it is not just that feeling of betrayal, being shut out of an important area that you thought you shared - which, of course, should not be owned totally but in all honestly both the man and the woman in a given relationship do like to think they can! - men get jealous too - also a certain degree of intimacy and fidelity is needed for a healthy sex life, I think and has then been lost - but also ? ?Do I really know him, did I ever??.

The use of pornography, what is viewed, why, how frequently ? is a part of the person - that person that you thought you knew, that you have made love to and have maybe had their children.

I think that homo sapiens has developed over the years a fairly good understanding about what ?love? is.

We may feel disillusioned, lose faith or confidence in Love - but then we get more cats or have more babies. We have art, poetry, history, music, film, nature and childhood ?innocence/freshness? to remind us and that we ?recognise love within?. Granted women sometimes chose men for their power and money - but in the main I think women don?t. Men who do not have this power, money or even sexual power may feel misogynistic towards the female species. The Princess is adored, the Prince is always rich - but then so is she ? hmmm? Was Cinderella - the main ?Princess,? actually a rich Princess in reality - I wondered about this the other day and could not remember.

?Love Compatibility?. Do we develop a concept of love from how we see it operating within our families - or is it independent of this? Sounding a bit like Carrie Bradshaw now!!

Women are closest, I think, when they have their young babies. We almost go back to the primeval state ourselves. Do some men do this sexually at the same time - spreading the seed thing? The crocodiles will babysit. The cave dwellers possibly shared their breast milk for those who had none. At that time we do not think about who has the biggest house or the best car or even the richest husband. Is this a time in itself that is threatening to men? The female bonding - that within this society he is not used to being challenged with?

Who is it that has actually produced and is driving this society? The men, the women ? is it a constant battle? Just as the Pipeline in Georgia is now so important. Most politicians are male and yet they say that ?being every great man is a great women??

It was the war - where the men were mostly sadly cannon fodder - that initiated ?womens lib?. We were needed - showed what we could do - and did not simply want to return to domestic slavery. Cinderella again. The portrayal of the female - Barbie Rapunzel - seems to me to be that of the ?housewife?! Still the unpaid labourer. The cost of childcare, housekeeper, shopper, cook would be about £1500 per month.

Sorry to digress.

I do think that all these rivulettes feed into the big river.

Unfortunately I think that the human sexuality element has been side-stepped mostly in dsicussions. The ?Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire? described how the army became lacadaisical. But there is also a secret museum - in Pompeii I think - that few have access to - that is absolutely full of pornographic imagery. Of bestiality, orgies etc. We know a bit about those orgies! It has been speculated that the opulence and excesses and sexual ?depravity? also led to the decline of Rome.

Mainstream films have historically portrayed little in the way of even erotica - and are still the same. I do not agree with this. 9 and a half weeks - so what? I think that the medium of film should show normal and good fun sexuality! Not making it some silly seed eaten in secret! Hardly fruit! Making sex easy work for somebody to make money out of! Erotica is something maybe more natural to a female - so where would a man learn about female sexuality then? Porn. Sad that it has now come to this. Single sex education does not help.

Most references to the problems with pornography - its harm or addiction factor, its destruction of intimacy and family life etc are found with reference to the Church. For a mostly non-religious society - this can sounds controlling and old-fashioned. Just ?Bible Bashing?.

What about all this teenage violence though? Girl gangs also. And groups of girls absolutely ?off their heads?, staggering around in Ibiza and catching Chlamydia? Do we want this future for our children? Are they finding love?

dittany · 19/08/2008 23:44

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ladylush · 19/08/2008 23:47

Back to the op, you are totally NOT being unreasonable and I hope you feel able to sit down and talk to him about how it makes you feel

solidgoldbrass · 20/08/2008 00:29

Forestfern: you are completely wrong in asserting that threesomes/group sex cannot be provided in a 'loving' setting. Some people live in longterm loving group relationships; some couples who swing have been happily married for decades - and they are the ones who, while they might not 'love' additonal partners in the sense of wishing for the additional partner to move in with them, treat them with courtesy and kindness and frequently regard them as friends.

Dittany: the biggest problem with Dworkin is that she takes the examples of bad/unpleasant men that she has encountered and extrapolates the behaviour of all men, as though men are not human beings but some homogenous woman-hating mob. (Apart from her mate John Stoltenberg who I didn't meet in the flesh but did once debate with over the phone: he was the classic male anti-sex misogynist, condescending and rude to any woman who didn't fall over backwards bleating with awe at his anti-sexism).

dittany · 20/08/2008 00:59

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

solidgoldbrass · 20/08/2008 01:09

Dittany: Please do.Good idea.

OrmIrian · 20/08/2008 09:37

Is this discussion really about porn per se? I still think that the issue here is about the insecurity that the OP feels because her life partner is finding sexual gratification elsewhere. Would it not be as bad if he was fantasising about women he'd met and masturbating?

FWIW I have some problems with porn and more significantly the leaching of porn into the mainstream, the pornification of society.

SueMunch · 20/08/2008 17:01

Nice essays - I'm sure the average male will contemplate these complex issues whilst approaching the shopkeeper with his copy of Razzle or consulting porn links sent from the lads at work.

Rubyblue, please don't take it personally - its just something they do I'm afraid. Most men grow out of it - eventually.

Unless they are benny hill

olympicsnotfederer · 20/08/2008 17:43

and look what happened to him...

iluvbananas · 20/08/2008 23:09

I've also caught my DH at this a couple of times. I got the huff on with DH because partly I was embarrassed, partly I was shocked he was doing it at all (how naive of me) and also he was doing it secretly (how controlling of me).

In the last couple of days I have found a load of downloaded stuff in quite a well hidden file on our computer, alerted by the fact that some had been transferred in to the 'trash' folder. I had a look through some and am I not particularly worried about the content, although I did feel a bit sick, mainly through the shock of my discovery. I'm not a particular fan of porn but am not a complete prude and can understand why men want to look at it.

I have since rationalised it in my head and reading the comments on this thread have come to the conclusion that I shouldn't object in principe as long as none of it is dodgy/illegal in which case I would shop him to the police!

What does really worry me is that my daughter who is nearly 5 plays on the computer sometimes and I really really hate the thought that this stuff is on there too. Should I wipe it all off myself or is that juvenile and just as deceitful? Should I tell him to do it and suggest if he wants to look at it he should keep it out of the house? The answer is probably really obvious and I am being utterly stupid and gutless but this is keeping me awake at night and I am really scared of broaching the subject with DH because I know he will get defensive but I feel a coward for not saying anything as I should be protecting my children from the possibility of seeing this stuff. He is a genuinely decent bloke and I don't want him to close down and shut me out. Help.

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