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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

Is this rape/sexual abuse?

137 replies

QuickNameChange1 · 12/08/2008 17:46

Please picture the scene and give your opinion...

a woman is having sex with her husband. After a while, she asks him to stop as she just cannot get in the mood. Instead of doing as she asks, he carries on alhough "speeds things up" so that he still gets what he wants out of it.

5 minutes or so after she asked him to stop, he does.

Is this still classed as rape/abuse?

Sorry for the name change, wanted to ask this anon.

OP posts:
solidgoldbrass · 12/08/2008 22:27

Whatever the legal definition, there's a big problem in this marriage. The man was definitely in the wrong to continue while the woman was trying to push him off but as to whether the woman needs to get him out of the house or whether counselling will help depends on everything else that is going on in the relationship.

Mamazon · 12/08/2008 22:28

absolutly dittany.

i know that teh first few times it had happened to me i thought it must have been because i wasn't "performing" enough. i went out of my way to instigate intercourse, i wasn't in the mood and certainly didn't enjoy it but i thought if he got it more often it would stop him being so brutal in demanding it.

it didn't work. as i said earlier, Rape is very rarely about sex. its about power, dominance and control.

dittany · 12/08/2008 22:31

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Mamazon · 12/08/2008 22:33

Im ok about it.
i am free from him now and have learned many valuable lesson's.

Roboshua · 12/08/2008 22:49

Dittany. OMG!!!! There is absolutley nothing mysogynistic to call someone female. I am female I am happy to be female and I will remain female. I actually prefer the term female to woman or should that be wimmin??? It is idiotic comments which detract from the important issues.

And with regards to the female who had sex where she intitiated it she was asked her reasons for doing so and she stated that sometimes she felt like and enjoyed sex with her husband. The issue was also she did not think that on the occasions she had sex with him when she didn't want to was rape until she decided she wanted to divorce him (because she had a new boyfriend) and a helpful firend told her if she had ever had sex with her husband when she didn't want to it was rape. She admitted that her husband would not have known she didn't want to because she never said or did anything to indicate that and the reason she didn't say anything in those circumstances was because he would sulk if she did say 'no'!

I have no predudices about rape victims (and yes I am a vicitm not a 'survivor' or what ever the latest 'right on term' being one myself.

UniversallyChallenged · 12/08/2008 22:55

Where are you QuickNameChange1- are you ok?Interested to know how you feel about all the answers?

dittany · 12/08/2008 22:58

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Mamazon · 12/08/2008 23:03

yes of course dittany. the 93% of rapists who aren't convicted were all innocent. it was all these lying women (wimmin???)

dittany · 12/08/2008 23:11

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Roboshua · 12/08/2008 23:13

I have never ever met anyone who has found the term female insulting noun or adjective.

No the story is not apocryphal. My unit did interview the female in question in very long and frustrating interview to ensure that every aspect had been covered and if a rape had occured there was evidence to prosecute. I spoke to her at length myself. She wanted to report a rape so that he would get arrested and then she could get him out of the house either because he would have bail conditions to keep away or because he would have been remanded. they had equal rights on the house and she wanted him out.

I did not say she was deliberately came into lie about rape. She genuinely did not want to have sex on the occasions she mentioned and as she had now been told that if she had sex whan she didn't want to it was rape then she now genuinely believed she had been raped. If she had indeed told her husband that she did not want to he had continued without her consent it would have been rape as in the OPs example but she didn't so there could be no prosection.

I was therefore not remembering a case of vicitm lying just someone who didn't understand the defintion of rape.

edam · 12/08/2008 23:19

Is this some police code, as in 'an IC1 male' or whatever it is they say into their radios?

Robusha, 'a female' may be accepted usage in the police, where you appear to work. But it is not a value-free statement. What's wrong with 'a woman'? As other posters have said, woman is the noun, female the adjective.

CvQ · 12/08/2008 23:23

this is rape.god i hope shes ok

dittany · 12/08/2008 23:27

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Roboshua · 12/08/2008 23:30

Defintion fe·male (fml)
adjective.

a. Of or denoting the sex that produces ova or bears young. b. Characteristic of or appropriate to this sex; feminine. c. Consisting of members of this sex. See Usage Note at lady.

noun.

  1. A member of the sex that produces ova or bears young.
  2. A woman or girl.

Synonyms: female, feminine, womanlike, womanly, womanish,

Mamazon · 12/08/2008 23:32

i think that your missng the point that whilst yes women are female, not all females are women.

to call me female is to liken me to an animal. whilst essentialy i am, i would like to think my use of thumbs and ability to recognise myself in the mirror places me at a higher rung on the evolutionary ladder.

ravenAK · 12/08/2008 23:35

OK - I've changed my mind during sex.

Since having dc, I'm very definitely not as sexual as I was. Also I went through a phase of getting panicky during sex.

Not much fun for dh. But he's a decent honourable human being. If I suddenly started shoving him away & insisting he withdrew - he did.

To carry on whilst your dw/dp is trying to push you off & repeatedly telling you to stop - not on. At all.

coolbeans · 12/08/2008 23:46

It's definitely abusive behaviour, and morally, you may be able to make a good case for it being rape (defined as sex without consent) as consent can be withdrawn at any time, and that decision should be wholly respected.

However, in legal terms, the CPS wouldn't touch it with a barge pole. There would be zero chance of conviction under the circumstances outlined - rape convictions are incredibly low in much more obvious cases.

chipmonkey · 13/08/2008 00:31

It's rape and it's particularly low because the man in question probably knows damn well there's little or no chance of a conviction.

harpomarx · 13/08/2008 00:37

I think this point may have been made before, but it seems to me the important thing is not to label what has gone on but that the OP works out how it made her feel.

We could all say 'yes, that's definitely rape' or 'no, that's not rape' but only she knows what was going on.

From the outside, it certainly sounds aggressive and unpleasant behaviour, but I'm not sure if labelling it as rape is important, unless OP is actually intending to prosecute?

swalesie · 13/08/2008 06:03

Oh my god, your all getting so histerical about this, am i the only one who looses intrest half way through? then say lets stop, cos your bored and sore? but its too late and Dp is well away so you just let him get on with it,?...... Then 10 mins late and hes still ruttin away, then you tell him to stop, but he dosent and 2 mins later shoots his load? Dont you just feel happy that he's happy and has come so you can go to bed and sleep. (UH this sounds wrong,! i use him for my own sexual pleasure too) Thing is when a women says no, it does not always meen no, ...when it comes to sex with a partner! Ok shoot me down now!!!!

9

ObsidianBlackbirdMcNight · 13/08/2008 07:00

I find it offensive to be described as a 'female'. It's often used in a misogynistic or demeaning way and it grates on me.

Swalesie

I would like to shoot you down actually. It's up to you if you are happy to have your DH 'rut away' over your inert body for his sexual gratification. I've allowed a bit of rutting in my time (although I wouldn't if it took him 10 minutes to come - more like 2) That's ok because you agree to it.

This woman did not want to continue with sex. That is her right. She doesn't have to provide a reason, but it could have been anything, it's really none of our business. She told him clearly 'NO' and tried to push him off. That means NO. Your claim that no doesn't always mean no excuses rapists and disgusts me.

Fanlight · 13/08/2008 07:07

Swalesie you presumably aren't pushing him off at this point...fgs shut up.

Immensely unhelpful post.

StellaWasADiver · 13/08/2008 07:50

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ObsidianBlackbirdMcNight · 13/08/2008 08:04

I am very doubtful about the post that said you can't withdraw consent partway through. The laws concerning bodily autonomy would ensure that you can withdraw consent to your body being used at any point. That's partly why abortion is legal.
That's the same logic that said there was no such thing as marital rape as a woman consented to all future sexual activity in the marriage vows.

warthog · 13/08/2008 10:38

swalesie, consider yourself shot down. you're part of the reason rape conviction rates are so low. you are saying that someone doesn't know their own mind so you can carry on doing whatever the hell you like.