Is this marriage salvageable or am I being unfair about my husband's habits?

[ThisDearPearlHam]

I have been married for 12 years this year.

My DH by all purposes is a kind man. He is a good dad. He is hands on. He is a hard worker, he provides for us. We arent well off, we scrape by.

I have wrote a list of my annoyances, and I would like someone to tell me if I am being a brat or is my list ok.

He is emotionally distant. I feel like I talk to a wall with eyes.
Hardly any affection, when we last had s8x it was a shambles, He couldnt find my entrance. After 15 years together - he suddenly couldnt find my entrance?
He has stains on hes teeth - I have bought him powder to help - doesnt use it. he forgets.
Doesnt Manscape himself. He forgets.
He forgets - everything. He has to make reminders in hes phone. He once forgot to pick up the baby from nursery once. (It happens I guess?)
He showers - when he wants to.
Doesnt pick up after himself - clothes/towells.
Blows hes nose in the shower. dirty habit.
He threw an apple core in the front garden once instead of putting it in the bin
falls asleep constantly - or on hes phone.
Doesnt make plans, trips, date nights,
We have 3 small children - if I didnt plan any trips or holidays - they would miss out.
He had a voicemail 2 years ago from a woman, naming me, saying s8xual things. He called the police to report harrassment and cried on the phone to them - but not to me?
He wants to loose weight but throws at least two dinners down hes throat every evening.

I know we can get some Ick's... these icks dont seem to be going!

So - tell me Mumsnet - is this salvageable?

So in that list no mention of women who deny all access to their children when separated where they are used as a weapon to punish the man.
Women who go off and cheat and then take the man to the cleaners when he wants a divorce wanting the house, car etc.

Or the one where I have just been involved in as a witness of a woman who made false allegations of rape towards her ex which if not for the support of people around him and thankfully the police doing there job properly he would be dead now. Of course it can only be men.

Both sexes can be as bad as each other but on here the double standards are incredible in how someone is treated depending on the sex of that person rather than the issue that is at hand.

Oh my-the Irony is astonishing. So lets talk about different treatment.

Yes there are both sexes who exhibit less than ideal behaviour. But people like you always want to claim equivalence and that simply isn't true. False rape allegations are estimated at between 2-8%. And the difference seems to be that police (overwhelmingly a sexist and misogynistic culture) estimate false reports at 8%, but closer investigation reduces the number to 2%.

20% of marriages end up in divorce when the wife gets seriously ill, as opposed to 3% when the husband is ill. In older couples it's 60% more likely to lead to divorce, opposed to no difference in divorce rates when the husband is the one who is ill.

If this was reversed, and it had been 10 years of struggle, the reactions would be very different. People like you would be blaming her, her hormones or just general craziness of women. Can't live with 'em, can't kill 'em, right?

Family annihilators (men) are supplied with excuses -he snapped, it was a 'crime of passion '. How many men have "crazy ex wives"?. How many of those men turn out to be abusive?

So for you to claim double standards exist is quite right, but men are not the victims of it, much as you'd like to believe they are. Because it places all the responsibility on women.

Yes, and let's not forget the MILLIONS of fathers who don't pay child support. It amounts to BILLIONS of pounds, which cost is all borne by the mothers. Yeah, those guys fuck, squirt, and leave whenever they feel like it, they couldn't give a toss about the kids. How many times have we read here of men gallivanting off with an affair partner and dumping their kids? And then they pretend (and even manage to convince themselves) that the ex was the cause - because women are magically always responsible for everything that men do or don't do.

And let's not forget the millions of men who use their children and the legal system to endlessly harass their ex wife out of spite. We see those here all the time too. There's a reason the legal system is changing - because it's becoming very well recognised that abusive men weaponise it to continue abusing their ex.

Yeah, statistically, men are not the victims in this society, they are the victimisers. And the worst thing is that they cannot see above their testerical self-attributed victimhood. They are so deep in the pool of entitled self-pity that they can see nothing but their belly button. They have the reasoning skills of a sea squirt and about as much empathy. It's pathetic. All we can do to improve things is to raise our kids to see patriarchy and to fight it.

I think it would be worth giving couples counselling a shot, given you have young kids. Only if he's willing to engage, though.

Yes, because men are always so supportive of their partners when they are ill or experiencing some sort of crisis aren't they? Especially the ones who simply fuck off, never to be seen again.

Because people who are depressed often don't see it for themselves and therefore need some support, husband or wife, in matters not, what matters is a bit of empathy and some understanding when your spouse isn't coping with life.

Was the idea just to get a guy to give you kids and now that's done its tome to pack it in?

Other than the "suddenly not finding your entrance" are the others things, things he's always done or also things he's done in the past but doesn't now? If they are also a change, it sounds like he's unwell, exhausted or suffering some kind of other memory loss. Dementia? Brain tumour?

I think we're looking at an Occam's razor situation: it's highly likely to be a man who doesn't give a shit. There are tonnes of them who display this entitled behaviour without a care in the world about how their behaviour affects anyone else around them. Very, very few have a brain tumour.

And a brain tumour (or dementia) doesn't quite explain the sexy voicenote either, does it.

I think he probably knows you resent him and don't really love him anymore so he can't win. Maybe the two of you should take a break from what sounds like a complex relationship with alot of silent resentments. You've tried talking. If he is depressed it's up to him. I think most people stay in relationships for financial reasons and kids and companionship not because they love the other person anymore. If you don't want to separate is there a way you can try and focus on the friendship aspect so at least some good feeling comes back?

Absolutely agree, he has checked out.

Sexy message and apple core I'd let go as they are one time events in the past, but be watchful for current weirdness if your gut says he's cheating. The rest isn't trivial if it's bothering you; the two of you should be able to have an honest conversation and decide what items can be worked on or not. For some things, you may just have to decide if you can live with them - for example, what if the stains don't come off his teeth even with powder? But it sounds like there are a lot of things he's actually agreeing to change and then not even trying because he "forgets".

Can he see a GP about the memory problems in case it is something physical? In the meantime reminders in his phone are good IF they work, if not he needs another way. People do not usually forget their own children, unless they're David Cameron. (And ignore your mother - most men are perfectly capable of functioning as adults, parents, and caring partners; having a penis does not prevent this).

Picking up after himself and cleaning his residue out of the shower and leaving it tidy for others are absolutely basic, just make sure your expectations are realistic. If he comes home from work and leaves his clothes on the floor while he showers, no big deal. If he leaves them there for hours or days until someone else (you) picks them up, huge deal and he needs to start picking up after himself - ideally as part of doing his fair share of the household chores and childcare.

Falling asleep constantly could also be a health issue, but it sounds like between that and the phone you feel like he's not spending time with you or is ignoring you when you're together. That may go along with his not making plans, trips, date nights, activities/trips for the children. I can't believe his response to all this was to tell you to "get a toy"; that suggests to me that he is being an arsehole much more than you are "being a brat". See if you can divide up responsibilities more fairly; if he's really bad at social planning it may be logical that you do most of it and he picks up the slack with some other responsibilities, but if he's not even willing to spend time with you and the children and engage rather than doing his own thing or checking out, that's a problem.

Fixing all of this - and whatever issues he may have with you, if any - would take a great deal of work from both of you. I'd figure out first if you WANT to make all of that effort to fix things and if you can realistically see a happy future with him. If yes to both, then see if he's willing to put in the time and effort too. But beware of his "yes yes yessing" you, as he seems to have done in the past, and then "forgetting". If you do both decide to try, I'd maybe set a checkpoint of three months to see if things have substantially changed or at least are moving in the right direction and if not, pack it in.

Exactly this. Three kids later and only now you are realising? Sounds like most man after a while. However, may be he is very unhappy as family life did turn up as expected or for any reason. Three kids can be a lot of deal with for some.

The numbers speak for themselves. There is not much room for wiggling.

I’m not sure how to react to your opening post op but here’s my penny’s worth,

You say you have three small dc and they are getting more independent and that you scrape by on your dh’s wage. Do you mind me asking if you work outside of the home too?

Does your dh feel overburdened by being the sole bread winner do you think? (If he is the sole bread winner I mean?) It’s quite a lot supporting a family of five financially on your own. Could he be secretly resentful and expressing it by “quietly quitting” or whatever it’s called and doing the minimum? It might even be unconscious resentment on his part, particularly if you are openly critical of him a lot of the time?

Aside from that, lots of marriages hit the doldrums around the twelve year mark and you are just coming out of the parenting trenches; perhaps you are both feeling worn down by life? Do you ever do anything fun together? Do you ever prioritise time away without the dc?

I don’t really understand the voicemail thing even after you explained it. Are you suspecting him of having an affair? That needs some proper communication between you, It doesn’t sound like nothing if a normally uncommunicative guy was crying on the phone to the police.

I hope this isn’t the case but has he got someone pregnant? Has he got involved in some sort of situation where he is being blackmailed or he is out of his depth emotionally or is he in some sort of financial debt? I hope not, but could he be keeping another woman somewhere? I know that sounds ludicrous but stranger things have happened and to me your husband sounds like someone who is suffering under enormous amounts of pressure and stress. Like the burden on him is so great that he is just going through the motions?

Why did the woman on the voicemail behave so strangely? It must have been something serious unless she has a mh issue?

I really sympathise with you though op because the emotional distance between you and your dh sounds very lonely,

In your shoes I think I would try and get childcare for a weekend and go away somewhere with your dh. You say he is fundamentally kind and hard-working and a hands-on good dad. Try and focus on those things and do not, whatever you do, criticise him. Try and approach the weekend openly and just ask him if he is ok? And listen without commenting, Give him the space to open up. I know the emotionally distant thing is very hurtful to you op, but men I think sometimes struggle to open up to women if they feel very criticised and low in themselves,

He sounds like he has totally lost pride in himself and has lost his confidence and that there may be something else going on in his life unconnected to you and you need to talk in a very calm, non-combative way and try and get him to open up.

Could he be ill without knowing it? When did he last to to the gp and get a blood test? You say he is overweight, and his eating habits are bad? How is his quality of sleep? Does he exercise at all?

Sorry if it sounds like I am on your dh’s side, I am really not, I would be resenting the passivity in him just the way you are, and his personal hygiene and shower habits sound gross, but the way his head dropped when you said your feelings hadn’t changed made me feel a bit sorry for him and like there is a feeling man in there somewhere, and that there might be something else going in his life on that he daren’t tell you about. So good luck getting him to open up op!