Married to someone with Asperger’s/ASD/ ND: support thread 18

[Bluebellforest1]

This thread is for those of us seeking to explore the dynamics of long term relationships with our ND partners. Some of us are ND ourselves, some have ND children. It is a support thread and a safe space, it does get emotional at times. Avoid sweeping generalisations and try to keep it specific to you and your partner.

these threads have been going about 10 years now and have been a lifeline of support for many of us.

Previous thread
www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/5447569-married-to-someone-with-aspergersasdnd-support-thread-17?latest=1

You might well be right. I've perhaps been telling myself that it's not his fault, he can't help it ect essentially making excuses for him because I like to see the good in people. The end result is the same though and I do not want the kids growing up thinking this is normal, so I'll be getting my ducks in a row in the next few weeks.
Thank you for your perspective, it really helps me see that there's no one or nothing to blame but himself.

I think you're right. He's very insecure underneath everything and I think he feels better about himself when he's in control or making you feel less than.

I think it’s a common theme where you’re living with someone who is ND, you know it’s a disability and it will affect them and the way they react. And you end feeling guilty because ‘they can’t help it’.
And yet someone can be ND and still a twat. Theres no incompatibility there.

And EVEN IF the controlling behaviour is a consequence of being ND, it STILL doesn’t mean you have to accept it. Or that you can’t leave.

Thats where there is a huge difference between a reason and an excuse.
A reason is just that. A cause that might or might be modifiable/dealt with. It certainly doesn’t you have to accept it. Or that he is off the hook
An excuse means the ND person can’t help it, isn’t expected to make an effort and, as a partner, you should just accept all the shit. No, No, No.

Also, I personally don’t feel there is a need to blame anything on anyone. Esp not when there’s some ND (or any other disability) involved because I feel blame feeds the guilt iyswim.
If living with someone doesn’t make you happy, destroys your self esteem and you end up walking on eggshell, then that’s plenty enough to say you have enough and leave. You dint need a reason. You dint need to blame anyone. Just plain old incompatibility is a good answer.

It doesn’t really matter what drives the behaviour. Narcissists can’t help it really, trauma has often wired them a particular way. You can look at that from a place of empathy but your empathy will not serve you. It does not matter what label someone has what matters is the way you feel. There are endless amounts of lovely Neurodiverse people, this one needs throwing back in the sea. I wouldn’t waste a lifetime questioning someone’s behaviour. If it’s crap then it’s crap.

That rings true so much. I've told him I think we're just incompatible at this stage but he just doesn't want to consider the fact he might have to actually accept he's a big part of our problem, and things might need to change.

What a great perspective. I've spent years trying to analyze and understand, but it's gotten me nowhere. It's time to do what I need to be happy and stop expecting things to change when they never will.

You can look from every perspective possible but the object you looking at still remains the same. I feel many on here including myself tie ourselves into knots over trying to accommodate behaviours. It doesn’t matter how much you understand or empathise it doesn’t change how you feel about it, that’s the one thing we can’t control, we can’t stop the way we feel. My child behaves this way, I’ve beaten myself up for having negative feelings against her at times. I wish I could stop feeling but we can’t. We are hurt even though they never asked to be this way. Life is too short to spend a life on this when you don’t have to. Go and find happiness because it could all be over before you know it. I firmly believe that it what we are here for, not for all this heartache.

Given the strong genetic inheritance with ASD, the siblings are relevant.

Do you think you're adding to the support here Attila?

My daughter has been diagnosed with PDA and it was based on her inability to cope with any demands. She definitely is not operating from a position of superiority, she finds the PDA distressing as it interferes with her doing things she actually wants to do.

This is google and my friends son is autistic with a PDA profile..

“PDAers have a strong need for equality and control. When they feel a demand, correction, or someone else's superior position threatens their autonomy, their nervous system perceives it as a threat. Levelling brings the hierarchy back down so they feel safe and on equal footing.”

It’s the fact that when someone is above you are expected to follow, like a parent or a teacher or a friend. My friends son had no relationships because any demand to relinquish control is met with him levelling and it’s not nice. He went bowling and destroyed the game because there was no way he could loose. It’s just part of the threat response. I’m sure different people have different levels of all these things. But this is the explanation for a child and it’s only perceived superiority when it’s actually levelling behaviour. It can I’m sure manifest into something deeper in an adult. But even levelling in an adult when faced with a partner would be bloody scary. Sometimes one partner is above another (in a situation you can be wrong and need to say sorry) or have a need that takes precedence but the other can’t because they would feel less. I can’t imaging having to live with this, it must be awful for the PDA child.

This boy is late primary school. He can’t wipe is bottom as one of the many demands. So his mum has to do it. He says this is because it’s disgusting so why should he do it and my mum is stupid. It’s seems to be the way of getting around the fact he knows he should be able to do it but he can’t so he puts that self esteem hit onto his mum. She struggles so much, it’s sad.

We are talking about a grown man who’s likely bigger and stronger than their partner not a parent and child. Reason doesn’t matter. I’ve been in front of a angry man many times, it’s unacceptable. Atilla is right, the OP should not stay with this man given the ways he has behaved.

Sigh... this morning, about 8 weeks before DC starts uni, DH announces 'We need to have a conversation about how we're financing university'.

Uh... the time to have that conversation was 5+ years ago? At a minimum 1 year ago? But we couldn't because DH hasn't earned money stably for the last 12 years. As it is I have been trying to engage him in that conversation for the last year - and at least he acknowledged that and admitted he was feeling 'too insecure' to have it, as he's been on this contract about 4 months now. But I'm glad he knows I have told him the plan (DC takes out tuition loan, we pay accommodation) rather than insisting I've never mentioned it. I did have that horrible feeling of 'I'm getting nothing and I know that doesn't necessarily mean agreement but it also means I can't push the matter because there's some reason he doesn't want to deal with it'

I mean, if he's got 100k sitting in savings (doubtful) now would be a good time to tell me, but Robin had to apply for the tuition loan as it had to be dealt with last month and DH didn't give me any indication if he knew of a way we could cover all their costs.

I don’t understand that sentence the same way than you.
I understand they can’t cope with demands, including from hierarchy. Levelling as it is described isn’t as much about putting people the same footing (it’s impossible with hierarchy anyway) but a way to deflect a demand thry can’t cope with.

I think there is much much more than that about PDA and that ‘definition’ is extremely restrictive.
What I have seen PDA do is my friend being unable to a recipe because she couldn’t cope with slicing tofu. The demand from the recipe was too much. She had to stop. And yet she was ok a few days later.
I know some people struggle with having a shower even when they desperately want one.
So yes it is about demands from other people, including a boss. But it’s nowhere near just that and reducing it to ‘struggling with hierarchy’ and ‘just wanting cintrol iver peoole’ is not describing what PDA is imo.

@Echobelly i feel for you.
Ive been in the exact same place with dh. It’s impossible to talk about money with him, let alone budgeting or planning.
Years ago when I tried to create a budget, I asked dh to give me his account statements so we could tell how much we were spending in what. He told me I was controlling, and slow down the process as much as he could. In the end I gave up.
Setting money aside fir Uni wasn’t a discussion he was ready to have…

We’ve been extremely lucky as my parents decided to help the dcs. I organised everything else around that (including ensuring dcs had asked for the appropriate loans etc….). Dh couldn’t cope 😢😢

Fwiw your set up is a very common set up. Both DCs have told me since then that even the ones from ‘wealthy’ families had a similar organisation.

Yes it’s multi faceted. I was just mentioning one of the sides which could be driving some adults behaviour. My friends kid can’t learn something new. They tried a new sport and struggled so he turned around and called the instructor many names. He blamed the fact he couldn’t do it on their “stupid teaching”. When what he couldn’t do was follow the instructions. The PDA caused him to not follow so he had to blame the instructor to make him feel less stressed. He can not be to blame for anything. Even falling over a chair he turns around and kicks it for coming over and tripping him up. He can barely go to school, but his reason is not because he finds the demands stressful but because everyone in the school is too stupid and he is better. His brain is making stuff up to fit how he feels.

Im not sure this really matters though. If someone is making you feel crap and shouting, swearing, punching walls etc, then none of this matters. Who knows what really drives peoples behaviour. It’s a very deep way of trying to make life better by analysing someone’s brain. I think there are just some behaviours that push this beyond how can I connect better with my ND people.

Yeah, it's all kind of academic to him. I mean, on a day to day basis at least he is sensible with his money. No expensive hobbies, no interest in having the latest phone or laptop, just uses them to destruction.

Otoh, has done nothing about a pension for 10+ years, though he does have pension from his career before then and I'm already doing the maths on how we'll manage on mostly my probably not great pension and the value of our house. I assume I'm working until 70, and tbh that doesn't bother me - if there's nothing to look forward to after work, why stop? But of course you don't necessarily get the choice - illness or a late redundancy after which no one wants to give you a job might end your career before then.

@Echobelly oh that’s such a sad outlook on life. Nothing to look forward to. 😞

I don't feel sad about it. I still look forward to a life of working when I'm older and also being able to do stuff and go on holiday and things while doing so. I'm honestly not sure what I'd do with myself in retirement. We're fortunate to have a pretty decent quality of life, but if I can't have one if I retire before 70 then I'd rather keep working is all. I think it would still be the case if DH had a decent pension.

And obviously there is so much that remains to be seen that will influence how things turn out - if our kids have families, if they move away and so on.

@Marshmallowkiss I find your outlook very sad 😢😢

I feel writing off a child saying they will never learn is really sad (and wrong, not the least because the brain isn’t fully formed)
So is saying that theyre just bad people

Thats not how I see the world at all. Because if you can’t see any way for people to change, to learn, to progress, what’s the point in life? If a teen believes that about themselves and they also believe that they are bad, I can see why they’d want to end their life 😢😢 (I’m thinking here about the much higher level of suicide in ND teenagers)
where is the hope things will ever get easier?

I’m not saying he can’t learn. We are talking about adults and partners. Obviously with all the teaching and being diagnosed all young the kids have great learning opportunities. I’m saying a grown man who has not had the teaching could become someone fixed and very reactive especially if they have a PDA
profile that has never been acknowledged. I’m saying no partner has to stick around to teach a grown adult and certainly should not have to accommodate horrible behaviour. No one has to put up with anything no matter what label they have. Relationships are optional.

I’m confused
You were talking about your friend’s child…. Not adult partners

It was all in relation to the poster about the partner who was shouting and basically being controlling and abusive with potentially RSD. She said she felt beneath him and we were talking about potential PDA given the controlling behaviour and the equalising which can be part of the PDA profile. But it’s irrelevant because it’s just awful behaviour. We aren’t here to take responsibility for another adult and try and diagnose them.

Wow, university halls agreements are not great when you have an ND parent! 3 days to agree and sign... as DC said, it might be because they've oversubscribed and they want to lose some people. I'm off work this morning luckily and I know DH usually likes to read all legal stuff and I feared he'd insist on reading it but he was just 'Well it's the only game in town and there's probably unfair stuff in it but it's not like we have any other options!'

I was a bit surprised to see it's 3 termly installments, not monthly rent, which is in some ways better - I think it'll have to come out of my savings and then we'll pay the money back into the savings, though it's possible, as he's contracting at the moment, he might be able to put the full amount down and he may volunteer to cover at least this term himself (which I would not object to!).

Incredibly selfish behaviour. It’s meant to be about your son taking this massive step in life, he’s going to have so many feelings about it, it’s exciting and incredibly daunting. Why make him have anxiety and focus on his father’s feelings and emotions. He can lash out his feelings etc with a therapist and keep the room for his son at this time.