(TW SA) Continuing support & sharing things…

[PinkPoetAgaiin]

Hi again everyone,

Making a new thread as some of the lovely ladies who have been supporting me for over a month now suggested I can continue to share my thoughts & feelings dealing with sexual & financial abuse (& other things) from my husband who I’ve been with since I was 18 (15 years).

Will be on and off for a bit as young DC is unwell at the moment and that’s taking all my energy.

I am not yet at the point of leaving - please don’t shout at me for being a bad mum. I did get a lot of criticism on my last thread for not getting them out immediately and I just can’t for reasons I explained.

Life feels heavy, but I’m focusing on DC at the moment ❤️

@PinkPoetAgaiin I have nothing to add to the very very insightful posts this morning as I did not know about this book either so you are not alone or silly. What you thought was a small detail turned out not so :(

I would say this though. The more you are talking, details you thought were little are being picked up on by posters, who in turn are helping you to unpick this all. I think at the moment letting all this info sink in will really help your thought pattern and the way you have defended your husband in the past. It will be a gradual journey. No one expects you to leave tomorrow.

I hope this thread continues to be a safe place and a source of strength to you x

I know this is a lot to take in. I think it highlights how the rape(s) are not one-off mistakes of an otherwise good guy. This is a consistent, longstanding pattern of behaviour and belief.

I’ve never heard of this book. One of the cover endorsements is from Russell Brand, that says it all. There’s a review from 2005 on the Guardian.

Don't feel stupid - I'm sure he seemed lovely at the time, and made you feel swept off your feet, and being older (and with the other factors at play too) there was already a power imbalance that made you vulnerable. He preyed on you.

What's important is that now you're becoming informed, and you can see the man behind the curtain - he's not the great and powerful Oz, but just a garden variety misogynist and rapist, sadly.

If you read about PUA (pick-up artist) techniques, I'm sure you'll start recognising all the ways in which he's treated you, and he won't be able to fool you and lull you back into apathy again.

I can remember that book coming out. I was working with teenage girls at the time - older ones - and I read it and was absolutely horrified. Some of them were so vulnerable and I was young myself - but older than them - they would often come to me about relationship problems.
These two stages could possibly relate to Poet’s experience? The establishing a connection enabling the target to feel ‘safe’ and then the use of the ‘you are so sexy I can’t help myself’ narrative?
The fact that he told you he had used the book shows how brazen he was.
As a bar owner he was in the perfect position to try these games out.
I am not sure how he would feel about a man using them on one of his own children?
I would read the book. Knowledge is power.

That’s the thing, this is what he thinks of women - a series of holes to be accessed. I don’t understand these misogynists who have daughters. How would he feel if his daughter’s future partner read that book? I guess they just see all women as inferior/ sub human so I suppose he’d find it totally acceptable. I just find it so hard to understand. We have a son and a daughter and want the world for both - I just can’t imagine a mentality that would mean we would be ok with them being mistreated.

Anyway OP, lots to take in. Take your time, you’re doing great.

It could be nothing (and more just the attitudes of the people who raised him - it probably is just that) but I did wonder if your in laws attitudes to abuse victims might have been coloured by their son being accused in the past before you.

@RS1987 I was in a relationship for a while with a man with two daughters. One was a teen, one was much younger.
He asked for some advice abut how dads can deal with periods so I researched it and went through it. I have no kids.
He thanked me profusely, and then told me….
Jade, I still find you disgusting when you get your period.
I did ask him how he could be so considerate of his daughters and not of me, as I was being aware at this point he had abused his ex wife. I wasn’t expecting special treatment, by the way.
He explained…
Daughters are your flesh and blood.
Any other women, even wives, are interchangeable. Every hole’s a goal Jade!
He often told me he was a truth teller, even if it shocked me.
And that was the end of that. I left.

OP i was on your past threads and already horrified by every further piece of information you posted.

But to casually drop that he bragged about The Game when you met? I almost can't believe it. He's been so open about being a creepy rapist! The stuff in those books/websites is utterly nauseating.

The looking back at messages and seeing how often he's ruined days or apologised. Just all of it. He actually makes my skin crawl.

You aren't silly - if you'd never heard of the book and just thought it was normal dating advice, why would you question it or examine it further? You trusted him.

He probably doesn't even think it's wrong, because he agrees with the ideology behind it.

It is horrifying to realise he's actually deliberately set out to do what he does to you, though.

It's not accidental or misunderstanding.

At least you can put your finger now on exactly why he seems lovely and desirable some of the time and reverts to being a selfish cruel pig the rest of the time.

Those books tell you how to act (literally, act a part, play a role) to get free access to sex whenever they want.

It goes hand in hand with the ‘jokey’ comments about what he would do with future boyfriends, doesn’t it. Aside from the gross protecting chastity implications, misogynistic men can still be protective over their little princesses, but that’s all they really see them as.

I am actually quite horrified reading passages from the book online now. I just never thought to look at it when we first started dating - he told me it was dating advice and ‘taught him everything he knows’ about how to get women to fancy you. I do remember it well because it was on our shelf for ages and then we had a clear out about 5 years ago and he was like oh I don’t need that anymore!

He would say he’s grown up/ changed from that . Even the guy who wrote it is now a loving husband and father according to google !

He's still using the techniques on you though!

This is correct . I’m quite sure he would be livid if any guy mistreated them in the future. As he ‘knows what men are like’

Thats quite a way off as they are very young

Well yes - I agree . I’m just saying that’s what he would say if confronted

Well, livid, maybe. But also disbelieving?

God
I hope not
Wouldn’t I know if he has a criminal record as we’ve been to countries that require you to disclose that ? Would that show up on CL request?

He also used to be a big Russell brand fan and no I am not making this up I promise !!! But he has talked about what an idiot he
is since all the allegations came out . He doesn’t condone it, openly at least .

He would say he’s grown up/ changed from that . Even the guy who wrote it is now a loving husband and father according to google !

Of course he would say that about himself! (Both of them! ) because times have changed and that's the sort of thing you say now to get women to not find you abhorrent!

Why do you put stock in what these men say about themselves and not how they behave?

No he’d believe anything they said. As someone said unthread I think in ‘their’
heads it’s totally different for daughters.

When the older one has a little friendship issue at school or something he’s quick to overreact

Or at least thinking they brought it on themselves. "No, he shouldn't have done that, but if you hadn't worn that short skirt and made him think you were a slut, he wouldn't have had to do it." 🤢

Some of my friends growing up had fathers who had those sorts of attitudes, although they wouldn't have called themselves pick-up artists, and they had little sympathy for their daughters if they 'got into trouble'.

It is difficult to imagine while your kids are so young, but Daddy's special princess only stays that way until she develops her own sexuality. After that, all bets are off.

He may not have a record at all, and it may be that any of his past behaviour hasn’t come to his parents notice, but I don’t believe he only started to become a rapist when he met you whatever they know or don’t know. If a previous girlfriend made an accusation for example, or he got ahead of something by telling them that someone was trying to destroy him by accusing him of assault. They may just have archaic attitudes of course!

I think when ‘that’ book came out young women were reading ‘The Rules’ so it became a sort of pop culture ‘thing’ and the culture at the time sort of encouraged it.
The fact the DH was discussing their sex life in front of friends recently shows he hasn’t moved too far away from this mindset.
It shows a complete and utter lack of self esteem from the man himself - that he has to use vile techniques to subdue a woman, rather than be enough as he is.

Yes, and I think all this goes hand in hand with him being a primarily controlling - rather than loving - man. I imagine he would lose it too if anyone else assaulted you now, or if anyone else behaved like he does in front on the children (say, if another person scared them and smashed a glass ornament near them). It’s not just hypocrisy and it’s not just protectiveness out of love. You are all his, and how dare someone else do something to what is his.