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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

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Original poster

Had row with my mum about DD, think she's in the right

111 replies

Dontworryboutme · 18/06/2008 14:26

Basically at the weekend I took my DD (10) and my partners daughter (9) to my brother's house. Once there, the kids (my brother's kids too) went to play upstairs whilst the adults stayed downstairs.

On the way home my partners daughter lifted up her top and said "look at me" and she was covered in pen and felt tip, completely scribbled all over and wrote all over like one of those doodle bears.

Partner was cross and asked what had happened and she said they were all playing doctors in the bedroom and she had to take her clothes off and everyone took it in turns to draw on her and she also drew on herself.

I told my brother what had happened and he spoke to his kids but both he and my partner were more or less laying the full blame on my DD as she was the oldest.

The day after my brother's wife came here with him and said they wanted a word with DD. They had her sit on the couch and then his wife just went mental at her, screaming and shouting at her and saying stuff like "if you ever do that in my house again I'll put you through that fucking window". DD was in tears and swore it wasnt her idea and that it was my neices idea so the wife said it was all on recording and DD was heard suggesting it (obviously bullshit but she thought it would make her confess) and DD still insisted it wasn't her so my brother started shouting at her too and in the end she said she couldn't remember who had suggested it. They took this as a confession that it was all her idea.

They then left.

Then yesterday my ex (dd's dad) came around and had DD sit on the sofa whilst he kicked off at her shouting at her and telling her off etc and she still said it wasn't her idea and I believe her but nobody else does.

This morning my mum phoned and had a go at me saying I shouldn't allow people to shout and scream at DD and should have thrown brother and wife out and that partners daughter has known behavioral problems and if I stay with him DD will end up getting the blame for everything she does.

I now feel incredibly guilty that I allowed DD to take the full blame and be shouted at and scared twice but everyone still thinks its her fault.

OP posts:

micci25 · 18/06/2008 16:45

if any one came into my house speaking to my dds that way it would be them who went through the window!!! your mum was right!

but all that for some felt pen!! anyone would think that your dd had been encouraging the others to doodle on themselves with shards of glass ala amy whinehouse!!!

my dd went a new years eve party at sils and was playing hairdressers upstairs with a toy salon set. with scissors that werent meant to able to actuaually cut! all but one of the the dcs came down sporting new haircuts!! no one was shouted at and definately not swore or shouted at! kids will be kids they will do theese things and all can do is laugh to stop yourself crying! and advise them not to it again obviously!

elliephant · 18/06/2008 16:48

Well your DD has certainly been thought a lesson hasn't she? Doesn't matter if shes guilty or not she'll still get the blame. And an appalling punishment of verbal violence. Your DB and SIL are bullies- maybe they were disturbed by the whole nakedness aspect but it could have been handled better. How old are your nieces/nephews btw?I wouldn't let them darken my door again.

What about your DM comments regarding your DD and partners DD? Has she said she has noticed a pattern where your DD is always to blame (because she is the oldest) or is it just something she fears. Loathe the common assumption that the oldest is to blame.

Collision · 18/06/2008 16:52

A bit of soapy water would have got the ink off the child!

What a complete over reaction to something so harmless.

How is your DD now? Does she blame you for not sticking up for her?

I dont think you need to apologise but your DB and SIL and DD's Dad do.

I think you should say that you believe her and that what has happened is not the end of the world and that that sort of thing will not happen again....

.....and then I would slap DSIL!

poshwellies · 18/06/2008 17:00

I hope the OP is ok (and of course her dd)

FunkyNora · 18/06/2008 17:15

To the OP, so sorry that you've had to go through this. It must have all been very confusing and frightening for both you and your DD. To be hinest I think that the scribbling is a non-issue in the broader scheme of things. It resulted in her being disciplined vigilante / gangland style by people that she trusted and I think you should focus on that.

My advice would be to talk to your DD camly and explain that mistakes have been made all round on this matter. Of course she is a child and will do things that other people disapprove of, but that doesnt necessarily make them bad. Tell her that the aunts and her father should not have shouted at her and you will address that with the adults involved. she needs to have the confidence that you will support her unconditionally in all circumstances. Threatening a child is not appropriate discipline and maybe she will feel better knowing that you are the adult but also capable of making and admitting to your mistakes.

All credit to her for not trying to blame one of the others. Try and assure her how you will deal with discipline in future; explain that she will not necessarily like any punishment or otherwise that you decide, but it will be dealy with and decided by you.

Then I think you should speak to all the adults involved and tell them the same - that if they have any problems with DD they sould approach rather than bypass you. They clearly have a different parenting style, but they have no right to impose it onto your DD or you. You may also want to discuss it with your own mother who will respect you for it and support your approach.

This is a very tough one. Had I been in your situation, this is how i'd like to think i would manage the aftermath. Last advice, dont get bogged down on which child was most responsible as it will detract from the main issue and the central points may become all but lost. Hope you manage to sort it out.

Enid · 18/06/2008 17:34

they sound hideous

I am glad I know noone like this in RL

Blu · 18/06/2008 17:42

Why on earth have your brother and SIL become so irate when it wasn't even their child who was drawn on? What does it have to do with them? Or is it because of the reaction of your partner and what you said when you phoned your brother?

It seemed to start with your partner being unhappy - an over-reaction to begin with - how did it snowball from there?

How did your Mum get to hear of it?

And does your partners dd have behavioural problems, as your Mum alledges??? They seem very anti your partner.

There has to be something else going on here - otherwise your whole family is behaving quite bizarrely!

Monkeytrousers · 18/06/2008 17:46

I think they need to apoligise to your daughter for that amount of threat, intimidation and swearing. Totally innapropriate.

I would never have allowed that either. Even if they do somethuing naughty you should always try to talk to them with respect.

yoursurroundedbyarmedbastards · 18/06/2008 18:30

Jesus if my sis or BIL or SIL came in starting screaming at my dd saying thaying were going to throw her out the window and swearing at her I would have thrown them through the fucking window. Your mother is dead right. I can't believe you sat there and let them scream at your child. I'd have kicked them out the house and refused to speak to them. You should have protected your daughter from that, I feel very sorry for her poor thing.

2rebecca · 18/06/2008 19:28

If it was a 9 year old boy whose chest had been drawn on would there have been this fuss?
She's a prepubertal kid, kids do stuff like this, no-one was hurt.
I'd probably have had a quiet word with the kids about it not being a good idea but I really don't understand the hysteria, especially by parents whose kids weren't drawn on.
I'd demand an apology from your relatives for their overreaction, although it sounds as though you and hubby overreacted in the first place. Laughing when she showed you her chest would have been more appropriate than the prudish nonsense that followed.

MinkyBorage · 18/06/2008 19:30

What cov said, you should have protected her, if you don't who will, clearly none of the mentalists who have been screeching at her! Feel guilty, you definitely deserve to, but fix it, apologise to her and talk to them. Don't let it cause a rift though, you aren't going to change them, just give them a wide berth and don't take any shit from them in the future!

Tortington · 18/06/2008 19:37

i really can't see what the fuss is over - have i missed a post?

your mum is right. you should have intervened at that point adn said " that's enough...leave"

ahhhh hindsight - a beautiful thing

hmmmm WW custy do ? i think i would ring SIL and say " i've been thinking about things, its not my daughters fault and you were out of order, until youapologise TO HER i would ratherwe kept out of each others way" and put phone down

then in true coward fashion - unplug phone.

yes - that's what i would do

2rebecca · 18/06/2008 19:42

I don't see that this was anyone's "fault" though. What does it matter who suggested it? Unless it was a teenage boy then I'd be concerned. A group of primary school kids were playing. One of them got drawn on. End of story. Does it matter who suggested it, no-one is suggesting the 9 year old was drawn on against her will. Kids of that age don't sexualise this sort of stuff, the adults here have turned it into something smutty and shameful. Poor lass, she'll never dare bare her chest again, how much of a complex do we want to givce our girls, too many of them are ashamed of their bodies.

ElfOnTheTopShelf · 18/06/2008 19:48

I would have lamped my SIL / brother for that. on your dd's behalf.

Beetroot · 18/06/2008 19:48

still not back?

themildmanneredjanitor · 18/06/2008 19:49

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Hulababy · 18/06/2008 19:50

Agree with COV (and your mum).

No way would I allow anyone to bully and scream at DD in that way. Yoiu have to stand up for your children, especially whn you believe they are telling the truth.

AitchNunsnet · 18/06/2008 20:27

to be fair to the OP, from her first post she acknowledges that her behaviour wasn't good enough.

it's what she should do next that's the kicker.
definitely sit down with her daughter and apologise like crazy.

then what? what's the mother (grandmother) going to do? can she help? and how to tackle the ex?

2rebecca · 19/06/2008 08:10

I don't understand how the ex got involved in something as trivial as this though. It would seem odd for his ex brother in law to phone him, to be honest if my ex got rang by my brother saying our son had been involved in primary school age kids drawing on each other his reaction would be "so what?"
He also would believe our son if he said he didn't instigate something unless an adult was actually there. We are both eldest children so don't go for the "eldest kid always gets the blame" thing, especially if no-one was harmed and it was innocent nonsense.
It sounds as though lots of people did unnecessary phoning around and stirring. What are these people going to do when their kids are actually naughty?

Miyazaki · 19/06/2008 08:29

I don't understand what happened here.

but to the op: sometimes when people are very aggressive it is so shocking that it is easy to sort of freeze up and then afterwards think why didn't i do this that or the other? It is easy for us to say oh I would have thrown her out, not allowed it to have happen, but tbh I think I might easily been absolutely flabbergasted and mute if this had happened to me. I think you can decide in your head that something like this would never happen again, sit your daughter down and explain - and ask her how she feels about it all, listen to her. tell her that she isn't responsible for any of this madness (she was just playing whether she started it or not)

and please come back - do post, how are you and your dd? btw - your mum sounds lovely.

Alexa808 · 19/06/2008 09:28

FWIW: My older step sis and another child were in her bedroom, it was very very quiet and after a while the parents thought it was maybe too quiet...

Turns out, the kids had whiled away the time taking poo out of their nappies and plastering it onto the walls of the nursery

It didn't matter whose idea it was, they were both told off but not shouted at or anything like that. Like others said: kids will be kids and get up to things like this. Felt pen...haaaaarmlesss..... tsk...if you knew what I have been up to when I was younger

reikizen · 19/06/2008 09:29

Wow, never, ever let anyone speak to your child like that again. About anything. jesus

Alexa808 · 19/06/2008 09:32

Oh yeah, and while we're at it: shouting and swearing at your dd and intimidating her with bullshit KGB pseudo listening device is just cruel and unnecessary. They sound just awful, those 2 useless x?%*!

Dragonbutter · 19/06/2008 09:38

Please come back OP!
I'm still a bit confused.

theressomethingaboutmarie · 19/06/2008 10:20

How absolutely awful for your poor DD. It's hardly like she's committed a crime yet she's been treated like absolute dirt. You acknowledge that you should have done more and that's good OP. Now what you have to do is build bridges with your daughter and make it very clear how much she is loved and how you were confused and upset with SIL and B and how very wrong and naughty they were to be so mean to her. What the hell is wrong with a bit of felt tip?

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