Adult female friendships - keep getting dumped

[Threebear]

I have had an unfortunate couple of years in terms of adult female friendships. I’m going wrong somewhere and cannot seem to pinpoint the issue. Apologies for the long post to start. I F35 have been quite literally dumped by not 1 but 3 separate friends over the period of 2 years.

The first was a friend from childhood (from age 7) who I slowly lost contact with when I moved abroad (age 17) and reconnected with later on when I was pregnant 6 years ago. This was a best friend from childhood who also moved abroad to a very distant country to the one I’m based in. I visited her a couple of times as she lives near a very central world airport so was an easy trip to make when travelling places. Last trip as the previous was really lovely, however she was very stressed at work, and was worried she would miscarry due to previous miscarriage . She ghosted me after this trip and I presumed life stresses got the better. I sent a message once a month for 2 months, then another after 3 more months and then another after 6 months and no reply. Then I gave up. She did not miscarry in the end, rather had a beautiful baby and as far as I know, no postpartum issues. That was 18 months ago (2 years since ghosting) and I’m stumped as to what happened. All my messages were kind words asking how she is and saying I miss her a lot by the end one.

Second friendship from a different culture (and language), a dear friend for 3 years, decides to leave the country we live in permanently and quite literally dumps me the week of leaving stating the words very angrily “I don’t want to be your friend anymore”. Context is complicated as I was helping her out somewhat. I thought it was a classic case of don’t mix business with friends and she was mentally suffering a lot for her own personal issues, so thought probably closely connected with that. This was a year ago.

This year, another friend (from a third country and language which I think important to mention as its cross-cultural my issue) who has lived all around the world, finally moves to where I live. 8 years of long distance friendship and we both were so excited. I unfortunately mixed business and friends here as well (won’t be doing that again) and it caused a business disagreement which ended in her very nicely telling me “it just won’t be like it was but I do care about you”. I proceeded to go no contact and told her so in a very sobby lovely message (her message was also written very kindly) as didn’t want some half hearted friendship where the person states almost that they just don’t like me sometimes (I repeat, said in much kinder words but that was the general content).

Lastly, a group of women from my original country live here. Some I like more than others. All our kids are at school together. They appear to have formed quite a bond and happily discuss in front of me about their trips and WhatsApp group and birthday parties despite me never being invited even to the WhatsApp group. I really enjoy the company of some of them and would be quite like to invite them over or go for 1-1 drinks etc, and start a real friendship but it’s been 2 years of just no one ever inviting me despite sharing many tables with them in cafes while kids are at activities in eve.

I just feel I’m not liked. I have 3-4 male friends who I love the company of and vice-versa. I’m quite neurotic, intense and love asking questions about other people, discussing politics (not heavily opinionated however). These male friendships are great, we talk family, trauma, sport, politics and everything in between. I’ve never ever been dumped by a male friend.

I am totally perplexed as to why since age 30 I cannot make or keep any female friends. I take a big interest in people, love listening to their stories; I’m chatty and help out (taking other people’s kids to school or clubs, even bloody giving a job and renting an apartment cheapily to help friends - the 2 failed friendships above have to do with this).

My sister doesn’t like me yet my brother adores me. I always had female friends growing up, the issue with women began post having a child. My friendships are definitely more 1-1 than group since I was a young child. Friendship problems throughout twenties were few and far between. Really nothing that sticks to say there was any major issues in this period.

Feedback I have received after discussing with other close friends who live sadly in a different time zone / therapist / male friends : I am intense both for love and hate, intelligent, good humor, introverted extrovert, very very honest and blunt. Baseline I’m definitely more angry than most women I’d say and maybe this comes out. My “reactions” sometimes upset people. This means just stating if I’m unhappy with someone or something, and probably too bluntly for most people’s liking. I’ve got no problem communicating with people. I don’t shout or argue with any of these friends and never have. I’ve never got angry with any of them. I also tend to view silly selfish things as a personal attack and will often just not be able to forgive if a friend / acquaintance lets me down. But this is all in private, I don’t go explaining this to anyone and I accept maybe my feelings are on display but this is odd occasions with past friends, non of the above I have felt this about.

I’m just at a loss at to what’s happened with my dynamic around women since having a kid / turning 30. Are other people finding friendships hard in this age range / other people starting to only find friends in men over the years?

I know it’s impossible to know what’s really going on without knowing a person but maybe someone has some experience and insight into why women are dumping me and others just make no active attempt to be my friend despite seeing me daily / weekly and enjoying coffees at times with me (with the whole group there)?

thanks for any feedback

I have no real pearls of wisdom but I think you sound great OP, genuinely, and perfectly likeable, so please try not to get it into your head that you're not, because surely that becomes self-fulfilling. Seems like you have two issues which may not have the same root cause: loss of friendships and feeling like new friendships are not getting off the ground. I suspect these may have different explanationd and also wonder whether you're doing something very simple and offputting with your body language at these get-togethers - ie showing with small movements that you are very self-conscious, not relaxed and that you're preoccupied by how others are reacting to you, rather than by other more interesting things? Ie if someone glances at you in passing, do you quickly react by turning your head to look back at them, or are you more relaxed about being observed? I also wonder whether this could be one element of the intensity you mention which is making people wonder if it would be difficult to extricate themselves from what they would see as a casual relationship with you, should they want to later.

"This means just stating if I’m unhappy with someone or something, and probably too bluntly for most people’s liking"

I would say this is likely the issue. Women do not really do this to each other or the friendship will be over. Men are okay with it I have found and are weirdly more forgiving and can move on more easily. I would say you have said something they don't like and you have upset them. Have you ever considered that you might have ASD?

I definitely identify with your issues. Some things stand out to me as something autistic people have problems with.
Are you neurodiverse, or suspect it?

😂 yes I’m neurodivergent, I actually thought to post on the neurodivergency forum as I believe the issues stemmed from there. It’s not ASD rather a very unknown type of neurodivergence that shares qualities with ASD and ADHD also. Major difference is very high empathy and generally very confident social skills. I am fantastic at interviewing for example and usually the initial stages of friendships if the other person enjoys open book talk and not small talk, I seem to fail long term as my blunt and honest speech prevails and upsets people.

It is actually quite refreshing to see just from that text how obvious the neurodivergence is to others and therefore how much it clearly is the drive behind the issues.

@ultraviolet4753 could I ask how you manage this long term? Do you tend to accept a lack of friendships as you’ve got older or try and hold back from being your “true” self with neurotypical people? Have you found a good middle ground or simply tend to maintain friendships with other neurodivergent individuals?

@DeepRubySwan can I ask how you think would be a more appropriate way to communicate if you are upset with a female friend, when I say upset it might just be disagreement with something they’ve said and I would bluntly say “well that’s not quite right, X and X happened” and if they push I just smile and move on to something else as clearly I know they are on the defense for belief they are right. I can see in these places women often shut down and get all funny with me. Men couldn’t care less comparably and just debate the issue.
what if it’s a major issue ergo they clearly have done something wrong (not paid you rent for example), how would you not say anything here?

many thanks to all 3 of you for the comments!

What type of neurodivergence do you have? You sound like me. I think it’s sometimes just a case of finding like minded people. Don’t try to act differently (outside of being mindful of peoples feelings) or it won’t be a friendship that gives you want you want emotionally anyway.

It sounds like its you getting annoyed easily which is causing the issue. Having been on the other side of this, it can make others feel like they are walking on eggshells and that you're just hard work.

The most appropriate thing is to work on yourself getting annoyed rather than how you communicate it. The Mel Robbins Let Them Theory may be useful here. It is genuinely helpful to stop you sweating the small stuff.

You do sound like you have a good level of awareness of what is causing the problem. Now you need to work on changing your overreactions to small slights.

Don’t think this is that mysterious, OP. You’re neurodivergent, say you get angry easily, are (tactlessly?) blunt when something doesn’t suit you, find it difficult to forgive when someone lets you down, have a bad habit of mixing friendship with business, and have had several friendships which have faced the extra challenge of a move between countries.

I F35 have been quite literally dumped by not 1 but 3 separate friends over the period of 2 years.
I proceeded to go no contact ... as didn’t want some half hearted friendship

Sounds like you did the dumping on this one?

I really enjoy the company of some of them and would be quite like to invite them over
just no one ever inviting me

Have you tried inviting them?

Do you have any special interests through which you can meet people, who may similarly be ND?

I would not want to make or maintain a friendship with someone without at least a reasonable amount of emotional intelligence.

In your own words, you're neurotic, intense, blunt and angry. Those are not great qualities in a friend!

Friendships later in life are harder...post kids...people have more family commitments, less time, and generally need very low maintenance friendships they can drop in and out of without fear of judgement.

I presumed you were ND. Bluntness etc. As someone said further up men typically don't mind this and prefer it in some cases. Straightforward communication.

That said, while it's probs an idea to communicate more softly around female freinds...don't bend yourself into shapes. You are who you are and there must be other women who prefer a direct and blunt communication style or at least don't mind it.

Hmm I would shy away from blunt, intense and neurotic people. You comment that you are ‘very very honest’ would worry me.

I actually love people who are straightforward but there are ways to be ‘honest’. I bet that calling yourself ‘very very honest’ would mean you come across as rude.
what activities do you do where you just hang out with women. Do you do any sports? I find that I enjoy hanging out with people in a ‘parallel play’ type of way alongside having proper close friends.

Thank you for all the comments, all very useful to give me some outside perspective on how I and others view me. I tried being as negative as possible in the post towards myself so as to explain what qualities could be of issue. Clearly I have many positive qualities which I don’t go on to explain as they are irrelevant (extremely loyal, great listener, high emotional intelligence in most aspects (yes I’m aware expressions of anger do not promote for this), very funny, very sporty, open and inviting, caring mother bear like, supportive, helpful, never late to meet or reply etc etc). of course no one is perfect but as I say no point in announcing all my great qualities so I was concentrating on all the bad. So although of course I sound dire if read out of context, I confidently know there are great aspects of me also. That doesn’t matter though as female friends I am finding hard to maintain currently so clearly my positive aspects are not shining through enough.

My hobbies are all extreme sports which tend to be very male orientated, making me meeting women out of school ambience almost impossible, unless they are the wives of the male friends (I prefer the men so my friendship remains more with them than their wives who are more like acquaintances with more feminine interests and not the sports I do).

I think my direct nature is probably the most obvious characteristic (whether ND or not) that is causing me issues around women so that is where I think I have to work on most. The expression of anger is directly related to this, as it’s not anger in itself rather it’s verbal expression of discontent or disagreement where others would simply keep their mouth shut and grouch to their husband in the evening possibly 😅

Thanks again

You write I’m quite neurotic and intense.

You admit that and it’s pretty obvious it’s the reason. Many men will be wondering if they can have sex with you so are a bit more forgiving or they just like female attention.

I have been dumped by friends in my life but I was mentally unwell and was neurotic and incredibly intense. On reflection I understand fully why it was too much for them. Not everyone did and I still have plenty of friends who accept me for who I am. Whenever I feel a bit unwell I just don’t socialise, for their sake and mine.

Don't make the same mistake I did. I knew I was neurodivergent in my early 20s. I thought it literally meant "thinks a bit differently". But I didn't realise that meant I had autism and adhd, which have both slowly but surely disabled me by my mid 30s. It is possible to have both and is known as AuDHD. The symptoms of one mask the other so it can go undetected for decades.
The other neurodiverse conditions are Tourettes, dyspraxia and dyslexia.
If I were you I'd look up coping mechanisms.

Whilst some people feel they have benefitted from assessment and diagnosis, this whole business of human relationships is very complex and probably one of the most difficult things we do as human beings. I'm not a mental health professional but have, through my work, spent a good deal of time listening to students' personal problems. Even amongst people who are apparently socially adroit and sociable and appear to have lots of friends, it is usual to hear of the sense of not fitting in, people inexplicably falling out, rudeness and aggression and much else besides. 'I don't think they're really my friends', 'I don't think they like me', 'She pretends to be my friend but I overheard her calling me a slag to so-and-so'.

Sadly it doesn't get a whole lot better as you get older. No good deed goes unpunished. Generally the people who end up being the most hostile are those you've helped in some way. Money, accommodation, childcare, lending them stuff. You'd think a sense of goodwill would build up, but it seldom does.

I can't solve the problem, other than to sympathise and say that, in a sense, you've just got to harden your heart. Not all friendships are built to last; it's sad when the come to an end but you've just got to keep going. Keep being pleasant and personable and sometimes good things come of it. Personally, it try and put more goodness into the world than I get out of it, and try not to pass the misery on if I can help it.

There is another that is not announced as neurodivergence unless you specifically look it up. I’m fully aware of what it entails to me, the ASD qualities of directness and the more risk taking qualities of adhd without the inattention. Well studied, well guided and well diagnosed over here. Doesn’t change the fact it clearly affects my social relationships though and something I’ll forever be working on due to said fact. I’m sorry to hear you have had such a tough time, I wish it was so easy to just find friends / colleagues and partner who get you but it’s few and far between often sadly

I agree with other posters that your self description does make you sound like a high maintenance and possibly "difficult" friend despite your more positive qualities. However, a friendship where a friend doesn't pay rent owed doesn't sound like it would have survived for anyone else either, regardless of personality type or whether neurodivergent or typical. So I'm not sure I'd count that one as a friend dumping you!

Aside from the personality aspects that might make you a bit of a high maintenance friend I'm wondering if actually your judgement of who is a good friend or worth being friends with is a bit off? It sounds like at least one of these friends took advantage of you (the rent problem) and another ghosted you and yet you continued sending them "I want to be friends" messages when they'd actually treated you in quite an indifferent way.

And there my lovely trait of loyalty is displaced and probably going to the wrong people 😅. The rent was due to her being in quite a terrible economic state, it wasn’t so much not paying me but the manner in which she hoped off and left without informing me that she wasn’t paying.

I probably shouldn’t have placed intense in the description as it’s not actually intense in a negative sense, only in a if you need a serious deep talk I’m here to listen and discuss with much interest. I take on the “therapist” role often and I consider it an in the name yet positive quality (people come to me, it’s not that I seek that position - I’m just a very open and interested person).

I do find it difficult to tell when it’s being taken advantage of or just the silly selfish acts of people that I immediately cross off as personal attacks. In reality I’m about the most difficult person to take advantage of until I’ve let you into my heart and then a floppy sensitive sole.

Hmmm I wonder if they liked the emotional connection they got from the "therapist" part of your personality but then found the bluntness and quick to express anger off-putting.

Was there any reciprocity in the emotional connections?

Very valid point. No, no one is my therapist in that sense. I take mother bear therapist role and although I’m very open to discuss my problems or traumas it definitely isn’t in the same role position that these are discussed. I wonder if people use me in their bad times and then disappear once I become a normal human with problems of my own and annoyances of my own. This is only the case in deep friendships though.

You sound like a nice and interesting person and someone I'm sure lots of people would like to be your friend. Maybe you just haven't met the right people yet or have been unlucky. I find it very difficult to meet friends but I know that I need to get out there more, haven't clicked with school mums. Can you maybe try and volunteer or join some more female hobby groups? Good luck!

"I take mother bear therapist role".

This would put me off. I wouldn't see it as a good thing. If I need a therapist, I'll get an actual therapist rather than someone who wants to look after me. I would want a sense of equality in a relationship.

Also you mentioned correcting people, saying that something wasn't quite right. Someone might just have a different perspective. Witnesses to an event often report on it differently. It doesn't mean that one is "wrong" and the other "right". I wonder if it's difficult for you to have that kind of mental flexibility and openness to different perspectives?

Just my thoughts. I think you sound interesting, OP, and I'd like to be your friend (as long as you don't try to be my therapist!).

It does sound like you were giving a lot and not receiving as much back in return. Relationships of all kinds aren't in balance all the time of course, but if it's all one way that's not sustainable. Maybe these friends realised that and knew they couldn't really give back to you and so felt uncomfortable on some level and withdrew.

And then your bluntness may have felt abrasive for them. I know a couple of people who are quite abrasive and cranky but it's with everyone so I don't take personally most of the time - they're very straightforward people so there are no guessing games. But if I'm feeling sensitive or stressed their abrasive personalities will sometimes feel too much and I withdraw a bit.

I've also been a "friend's for a season" person quite a lot of the time with very few friends for life. I'm not great at keeping in touch with people and I've moved around a lot. But I am good at picking up with friends after long gaps and unless someone did something really negative I'm usually happy to do this. Maybe worth thinking about whether you have other friends you can do this with, or if it's just not your personality to have friendships like this.

These are all my experiences so may not apply to your friends, but just some thoughts about the different ways female friendships might play out.

I can see how your experiences might have thrown you off and left you a bit unsure how to navigate new female friends - I'm thinking about the school mum group where they haven't invited you anything. Unless I'm not interpreting that correctly?

To find some more like minded female friends, is there a way to seek out women who do your extreme sports specifically? Like a women's only group or holiday? I'm sure I've seen things like women's rock climbing trips/holidays etc. If your sports are more solo is there something new you could take up that's more of a group experience while keeping the "extreme" nature?