Adult female friendships - keep getting dumped

[Threebear]

I have had an unfortunate couple of years in terms of adult female friendships. I’m going wrong somewhere and cannot seem to pinpoint the issue. Apologies for the long post to start. I F35 have been quite literally dumped by not 1 but 3 separate friends over the period of 2 years.

The first was a friend from childhood (from age 7) who I slowly lost contact with when I moved abroad (age 17) and reconnected with later on when I was pregnant 6 years ago. This was a best friend from childhood who also moved abroad to a very distant country to the one I’m based in. I visited her a couple of times as she lives near a very central world airport so was an easy trip to make when travelling places. Last trip as the previous was really lovely, however she was very stressed at work, and was worried she would miscarry due to previous miscarriage . She ghosted me after this trip and I presumed life stresses got the better. I sent a message once a month for 2 months, then another after 3 more months and then another after 6 months and no reply. Then I gave up. She did not miscarry in the end, rather had a beautiful baby and as far as I know, no postpartum issues. That was 18 months ago (2 years since ghosting) and I’m stumped as to what happened. All my messages were kind words asking how she is and saying I miss her a lot by the end one.

Second friendship from a different culture (and language), a dear friend for 3 years, decides to leave the country we live in permanently and quite literally dumps me the week of leaving stating the words very angrily “I don’t want to be your friend anymore”. Context is complicated as I was helping her out somewhat. I thought it was a classic case of don’t mix business with friends and she was mentally suffering a lot for her own personal issues, so thought probably closely connected with that. This was a year ago.

This year, another friend (from a third country and language which I think important to mention as its cross-cultural my issue) who has lived all around the world, finally moves to where I live. 8 years of long distance friendship and we both were so excited. I unfortunately mixed business and friends here as well (won’t be doing that again) and it caused a business disagreement which ended in her very nicely telling me “it just won’t be like it was but I do care about you”. I proceeded to go no contact and told her so in a very sobby lovely message (her message was also written very kindly) as didn’t want some half hearted friendship where the person states almost that they just don’t like me sometimes (I repeat, said in much kinder words but that was the general content).

Lastly, a group of women from my original country live here. Some I like more than others. All our kids are at school together. They appear to have formed quite a bond and happily discuss in front of me about their trips and WhatsApp group and birthday parties despite me never being invited even to the WhatsApp group. I really enjoy the company of some of them and would be quite like to invite them over or go for 1-1 drinks etc, and start a real friendship but it’s been 2 years of just no one ever inviting me despite sharing many tables with them in cafes while kids are at activities in eve.

I just feel I’m not liked. I have 3-4 male friends who I love the company of and vice-versa. I’m quite neurotic, intense and love asking questions about other people, discussing politics (not heavily opinionated however). These male friendships are great, we talk family, trauma, sport, politics and everything in between. I’ve never ever been dumped by a male friend.

I am totally perplexed as to why since age 30 I cannot make or keep any female friends. I take a big interest in people, love listening to their stories; I’m chatty and help out (taking other people’s kids to school or clubs, even bloody giving a job and renting an apartment cheapily to help friends - the 2 failed friendships above have to do with this).

My sister doesn’t like me yet my brother adores me. I always had female friends growing up, the issue with women began post having a child. My friendships are definitely more 1-1 than group since I was a young child. Friendship problems throughout twenties were few and far between. Really nothing that sticks to say there was any major issues in this period.

Feedback I have received after discussing with other close friends who live sadly in a different time zone / therapist / male friends : I am intense both for love and hate, intelligent, good humor, introverted extrovert, very very honest and blunt. Baseline I’m definitely more angry than most women I’d say and maybe this comes out. My “reactions” sometimes upset people. This means just stating if I’m unhappy with someone or something, and probably too bluntly for most people’s liking. I’ve got no problem communicating with people. I don’t shout or argue with any of these friends and never have. I’ve never got angry with any of them. I also tend to view silly selfish things as a personal attack and will often just not be able to forgive if a friend / acquaintance lets me down. But this is all in private, I don’t go explaining this to anyone and I accept maybe my feelings are on display but this is odd occasions with past friends, non of the above I have felt this about.

I’m just at a loss at to what’s happened with my dynamic around women since having a kid / turning 30. Are other people finding friendships hard in this age range / other people starting to only find friends in men over the years?

I know it’s impossible to know what’s really going on without knowing a person but maybe someone has some experience and insight into why women are dumping me and others just make no active attempt to be my friend despite seeing me daily / weekly and enjoying coffees at times with me (with the whole group there)?

thanks for any feedback

And I'm sorry but this comment has really needed me. The bit at the end, when you spoke about your gay male colleague.

A gay man is not a woman, or like a woman, in any sense. He's a man who is attracted to men. Totally different thing from a woman. Gay men don't "being female vibes'. That's an appalling, hugely problematic stereotype, and you just toss it in lightly like it's nothing....

This is the sort of casually offensive thing that is, perhaps, upsetting your friends. It's upsetting me and I don't even know you.

Sounds like PDA to me - the social autism.

"to anyone else they’d just be happy but for me as I’m now missing closer friendships I’m possibly looking at pushing that on people I clearly don’t like “that” much. I have concluded right now I just don’t have a bestie nor any lady in my life that could fit that gap."

Maybe it would be best not to categorise people you meet as "potential besties", or try to control the interactions too much?

Spend time with people in group environments without analysing them or trying to pin them down.

Turn up and do the activity or have the coffee. Don't evaluate or collect information about everyone you see (or obsess over working out how they are going to fit into your life).

It's not a popularity contest.

I used to be the girl who was always hanging around for the "inner circle after party".

As I get older its a lot more peaceful being the one who leaves early to do skincare!

It's also nice not feeling obligated to turn up if you're not an "A-List" friend.

Meeting a "bestie" past the age of 30 (especially if you're running a successful business and have a partner/child/hobby) seems a bit unrealistic unless you completely force things.

You can definitely have some great social interactions and experiences, grow as a person, and collect allies.

Mumsnet and Reddit are available if you want intense debates!

Oh wow, I’m really not sure where you got this feeling from. I absolutely do not think I’m superior to women in any sense at all. I do not share feminine conversation topics, this is not to say I am better at all. Am I different than some or most; maybe, maybe not, maybe and likely I just haven’t found my crowd as of recent and the end of my friendships are very much half my fault as much as it could be their’s. I take full accountability to the issues I bring to the table and feel quite lonely and sad hence my writing this to begin with. I miss women in my life, I miss close friendships but I also have the confidence to say it’s not ruining my life and I’ll be ok. I loved my friendships with women while they lasted and loved my friends on a note of very much equality (I might bring therapist role to the table but they offered me love and care and company and humor as well - as any in relationship!).
I don’t believe me saying it’s ok, I’ve found no pattern but behaviors I can slightly improve on / some I cannot and I accept I am who I am, can give any sense to what you are suggesting?
I mention neurotic as it’s a one of the big 5 personality traits and it’s an important aspect to delve into. Neuroticism means more propensity to anger and annoyance but also means great attention to detail and creativity for example. Yes it’s not great in relationships but it’s not an end all as to why I’m failing. My neuroticism is mostly unnoticeable to anyone bar my partner and business partner in reality.
I’m quite literally saying continuously I want more women friends, I just want some more like me, maybe ND maybe not, maybe into my sports maybe not, maybe with kids maybe not. Mostly I just want women friends who will love me for me (with me no doubt having to calm my abrasive tone to succeed etc). I’m not special as we’ve seen here, there’s plenty who identify and I just wish I could tomorrow find someone like that to identify with.

I am not sure where your are based or your age range and I’m aware one tiny comment can set off a whole snowball of upset on the internet as posts like this can reach far stretches of the world and to so many different generations but really where we are located and for my age range there’s just nothing at all insulting in this.

My business partner shares many a humorous joke or comment like this about himself and his community. All my previous friends speak like this, my partner speaks like this. We move in a very open society here. I identify as part of this community also although am currently in a hetro relationship. I apologize if this is morally incorrect according to your culture / country / generation but I can promise it’s not where I come from.

Hi @Threebear- very interesting to read this thread. This is a huge topic on mumsnet so you're def not alone!

It must be really hard to not know the reason... those three examples are interesting. Does sound like it's not your fault really but they do sound like not great friends - whereas you sound great - which makes me think hmm. Maybe the white knight thing is an interesting point. I'm also struck by how much you helped. I would do the same in theory for a very old good friend, but it hasn't come up - I only if you overstratch and that creates a position of inequality where they feel they owe you and start resenting you for it? I wonder if there is also an aspect of moving too fast too soon? I like all my relationships to advance soooo slow haha. They feel very fragile at the start and I hate feeling rushed or desperately needed. I think women are very independent and sensitive to that (unless they need you back and are the kind of friend who wants someone from you). Does that make sense?

I think it also goes slower with age. I moved to a new city 2 years ago. Had 3 friends here. Spent 2 full years making a new one! We are friends now but I really have to be persistent and patient and along give her space etc. I thought she didn't like me at some points but turns out she was going through stuff or needed space. So maybe my suggestion is slower and more consistent maybe with women who are less directly keen or need you.

On the culture point, I'm half from another European country and found it hard to adapt to here at the start as I was used to more open conflict! I had to really learn to keep it light and not get intense.

I know what you mean about male friendships talking about more 'interesting' worldly things but I talk about this with my closest female friends but think we needed to establish real safety and trust and also similar ways of navigating conflict before we opened up. It's worth it though. But maybe expectation that women are like is an alienating/distancing one? How about getting involved in political type things to meet women keen to talk about this kind of thing?

There is female friendship expert I follow called Danielle bayard jackson. Her content is very interesting. She probably also does private sessions. She might be able to help.

Good luck!! I wish you all the best.

high empathy and generally very confident social skills. I am fantastic at interviewing for example and usually the initial stages of friendships if the other person enjoys open book talk and not small talk, I seem to fail long term

Clearly I have many positive qualities which I don’t go on to explain as they are irrelevant (extremely loyal, great listener, high emotional intelligence in most aspects (yes I’m aware expressions of anger do not promote for this), very funny, very sporty, open and inviting, caring mother bear like, supportive, helpful, never late to meet or reply etc

My hobbies are all extreme sports

You sound just like me. I have similar friendship issues.

Yes that’s definitely been an issue as of recent, it’s only through writing here that I realized I was actively searching for a best friend to replace my lost friendships this and last year.

I compared it with my partner today to being single on tinder straight out of a breakup and the kind of bad quality people I would match with. If however I’ve been single and free for a while and feeling great I generally would match will brilliant people.

Not to say the mum women for example are terrible people or less than me (as people seem to think I’m saying), just they are not my “matches”. However, in an almost desperate manner (non intense as they have no idea and only see me for 30 mins once a week) within myself I’m searching, analyzing and trying to find a click where there isn’t one, and thinking maybe I could create a click where it’s just not happening clearly.

I straight out admit to my desperation to find a bestie, it’s sad but true. It’s been a couple of years of underlying grief from losing these people and I’m clearly trying to cover up with someone new in quite a unnatural manner. All this I repeat are revelations that have come from this discussion 😊

One more thing if helpful- your recent posts. You have just totally disagreed witb these women's thought, and acted like their feelings have no validity or cannot add any useful perspective to you. You've decided quickly you disagree so totally disregard/dismissed their comments. This is striking to me and different to how many other women would react.

No offense meant but I guess I am struck by possible lack of thoughtfulness or flexibility 9r humility? I really value women who can be like 'hmm never thought of it like that' or 'I didn't mean it like that but it's interesting to hear your perspective' etc

My last thing is that some of your language sounds a bit like my friend who really wants a partner. But she treats men a bit like placeholders and just wants someone to fulfill a need for her, rather than trying to find the one that she will really love and click with. This comes across. I wonder if there is an element of the same here - i haven't heard you talk much about how you feel about the women. Do you often meet women and really like them? Maybe come at this with the attitude of not trying to make friends lwith any woman until you meet one you really click with or like. Can you think of recent examples of this? I'm not sure I've explain it well but I guess focusing on the individual woman more and your feelings about her rather than making it more generic.

Last from me - might be useful to look at your mum/sisters/granny and their relationships with women for clues.

All meant in good faith and good will OP - just if helpful. All the best.

I’m so similar op and I ride bikes too (not serious DH stuff though, I’m too wimpy!)

Someone up thread said you come across as superior to other women.

I don’t see myself as superior to other women at all, I am no “better” than anyone else.

But I can see why other women might think I consider myself as “not like the other mums” because I do things like ride bikes with men, which most other women I know don’t / wouldn’t do.

Another example, over half term a school family who have a lovely indoor pool had a pool party, & I was the only mum who got in the pool (quite a few dads got in). I didn’t do this because I think I look amazing in swimwear, or wanted to flirt with the dads (I’m happily married thanks), I just simply don’t care what other people think & in that moment messing around in the pool with DH and DC seemed more fun than standing around sipping drinks and making small talk! But behaviour like this definitely sets me apart from certain other women and some other women definitely don’t like me or understand me.

I actually phoned one of my very few friends after the pool party, and she said “I would have totally jumped in the pool too!”. She absolutely would have done. And that is why we’re friends.

Why did no one else want to jump in the pool, I’d also be straight in there 👏!

There’s a few upsetting posts for me here where I’m feeling very vulnerable with my whole personality profile out for review (my own problem of course for posting this) but there are others which are making me feel amazing like yours. Simply to know there are women out there that are more on my wavelength (for good or worse) and having the same issues gives me hope that I’ll find my tribe one day soon again. If only all you lovely ladies lived where I live

I am hopeless at banter, at passing conversations. I am retired now and go to the gym a few times a week to do classes. I see the same women every week and they have such an easy way with each other - i have no idea how they do it. I can only speak to people about actual stuff- about the lifts not working or the increase in fees. I have no idea how to do what they do - they make passing comments to each other with such ease. I just can't dobit.

Why did no one else want to jump in the pool, I’d also be straight in there

I guess some of them just didn’t fancy it, don’t like swimming or whatever. Fine.

But I’m willing to bet there were others who secretly wanted to but wouldn’t have the confidence / would worry too much about what other people might think / would worry about etiquette / wouldn’t do it unless everyone else did etc etc

Whereas I just don’t care. I’m not harming anyone else, so I genuinely don’t care what people think about me and this is my general attitude to life. I’m a good, kind, respectful person, and I know that so I’m comfortable with myself and my behaviour.

But there’s definitely people who find me a bit odd or just can’t relate.

(I’d think you rock for jumping in the pool too op! )

Honestly, it sounds like your main issue with female friendships is that you are often entering into unequal ones. The three friendships you describe were ones where your helping role may have given a sense of control or upper hand, and then you may begin to act "parental" in the friendship when the friend transgresses, as this may be received by you as ungrateful or rejecting of all your support and help.

I don't know what this super special rare ND is (HSP maybe?) but I definitely see this pattern a lot with ND women. I'm a recovering "helper/fixer" myself. The helper or "fixer" role is one we may feel more comfortable in, as for a ND person having a defined role to play brings some certainty - we know the terms of engagement! But if we are always in that role, it means we suppress our own vulnerability and needs. Then when we need support, our friends don't know how to support us, and that can make us feel frustrated, rejected or used. But how are they supposed to know how to offer support when they're hardly ever called on to do it?

This can also (and did for me) tie into conditions of worth around being good, helpful and useful to those around us and having little sense of value when we are not helping, supporting, being of use. Often goes with being an eldest daughter too. And with higher neuroticism, despite often not presenting outwardly in a neurotic way.

Useful questions my therapist asked me when working on this pattern were things like what would it be like to be in a friendship where your presence, rather than practical support, was prized? How would it be to listen and be there for a friend and not rush in to rescue?

I think this might be the best thread I have read. So many thoughtful posts, and genuine discussion.

This is why we need female friends.

Thank you

Agree, such a good thread.

A few years ago, some wise mumsnetter (whose username I can't remember, but thank you) posted on a friendship thread:
'I have a hunch that we attract the levels of friendship we are genuinely comfortable with.’

This has been really helpful for me. And I think it applies to the 'white-knighting' that has been described. For example, if you get most of your emotional needs met by your partner, then you may not want/need/be comfortable with sharing deep issues with a friend. And then you need to pitch your friendships accordingly, so the friendship is balanced.

I think it also applies to friendship styles - you need to find people who match your style if it's going to work for you both. I find group dynamics exhausting and am much happier with one-on-one friendships. It's taken me a while to realise this because there seems to be a societal pressure to be in a group. I've realised for me that groups can be interesting but don't work as the basis for friendships.

Good luck with this OP, I think you sound great.

You’re autistic, that’s the issue with your friendships. Once you work that one out you can at least understand why it keeps happening. I also find male friendships much easier to navigate and subsequently have more male friends, however my lovely female friends are all neurodivergent too. NT’s nearly always dislike me for being too blunt or strongly opinionated or too obsessed by certain hobbies etc.
I mask heavily and this is very confusing for NT’s as I can look and sound quite ‘normal’ in passing but if you actually talk to me for longer than 5 mins, people quickly work out that something is ‘off’
There’s absolutely nothing wrong with you, you just need to seek out other neurodivergent people and friendships will be sooo much easier!

I find group dynamics exhausting and am much happier with one-on-one friendships. It's taken me a while to realise this because there seems to be a societal pressure to be in a group. I've realised for me that groups can be interesting but don't work as the basis for friendships

Totally agree @71Alex

Good observation too

Some people obsess over friendships with people who are dissimilar.

So they are alternative/quirky/individual in their own attitudes and lifestyle, but also want friends who have (perceived) mainstream social capital.

Ultimately, there are social leagues/tribes/castes.

If someone isn't consistently engaging with you over a longer time period (unless you're doing them a favour or chasing) they're probably just not that into you (and they don't owe you an explanation).

My observation is (some) autistic people find it harder to accept trade-offs when dealing with people.

They struggle with social context and positioning.

They decide Person A is "friendship or dating material" based on superficial observations then complain Person A doesn't have the right personality (ie, isn't doing what they say or fitting a rigid mental model).

They'll claim they want to be friends with someone who has a "jump into the pool" character.

However, if that person is eccentric/alternative in other ways they'll pivot away from that person.

They want a "unicorn friend" - mainstream themselves but also someone who will accept them and their foibles.

We have a child with autism within extended family.

He's very extroverted and tries to get children he perceives as "popular" to hang out with him.

Whether its through targeting them via group socialising or doing overblown favours for them.

Unfortunately these kids don't want to spend hours doing 1-1 activities with a child who can come across as immature and alternative/intense/abrasive. Plus they don't actually have anything in common with him.

So they drift away.

He describes them as "best friends" but its all his perception.

He'd be happier if he realised the sporty kids might be polite or engage with him, but ultimately he'd be better off with an actual peer group. He can't "train" people to be his ideal friend.

He sometimes can spend time with children who are significantly younger/older, but they grow apart quickly.

But I guess that's why autism is classified as a social connectivity disability...

We frequently have a thoughtful conversation with him trying to raise his self-esteem/confidence/independence through other ways...Or just to be more realistic in expectations, give him real life examples...

(then he's immediately suggesting the adults organise a party or sports event so he can get social access to the "popular" kids and send them messages 🤦‍♂️).