7 year relationship, multiple children, bought house together, not yet proposed

[echohawk294]

I’ve been with my partner for 7 years and we have young children. I have never been that bothered about getting married and was clear on this in the first few years of our relationship but said I would be happy to. My partner said he was keen to get married in the future.

A couple of years ago I was fortunate enough to receive a large sum of money that took me over the inheritance tax threshold. I said to my partner that I’d like to have a civil partnership or get married so that if I were to die, my assets would go to him tax free and our children wouldn’t lose out on a large sum of money due to an inheritance tax bill (which will only get higher when pensions are brought into the estate next year). I gave him the figures and he agreed that this was sensible but said that he wanted to do it in summer rather than winter. I was clear that I’m not bothered about a ring or a large celebration - signing the papers in a registry office with our children and parents present and then a lunch out would suit me.

A couple of years have passed and we’re still not married or in a civil partnership. We have recently bought a house together, which we hope is our forever home. I own a significantly higher percentage of the house than him. We both have relatively well paying jobs. I have always earned more than him but he has a better pension. I have recently gone freelance and so my income is more unstable but I have the potential to earn a lot more than him if things go well.

We have had a stressful couple of years for various reasons and we argue quite regularly. My partner is a great dad, he’s kind and patient, does lots around the house and tries his best to give me some time to myself. However, I still feel like I hold the majority of the mental load, project manage our household and am the driving force behind most of the changes and organisation in our family and relationship, which frustrates me. I feel like I’m a nag and I hate that. I am type A and my partner is much more laid back. He says that he feels like my standards and expectations are too high and that I can be rude to him when I’m stressed. We have done some relationship counselling to try and overcome this, all organised by me. When I stopped organising, he didn’t mention doing any more sessions.

I worry about the consequences of not being married or in a civil partnership every day and I’ve told my partner this. I really don’t want to organise the registry office because I feel like I organise everything and I’m now the one pushing to have a legal partnership. I essentially don’t want to coerce someone into getting married, I want him to really want to do it. The emotional part of me gets jealous of other couples’ romantic proposals but my head tells me that him sending me an email booking confirmation from the registry office would be good enough. When I ask my partner why he hasn’t sorted it yet, he says that we argue too much currently so it’s not the right time or he hasn’t got round to it yet but it’ll happen sometime. I agree that ideally we’d argue less but we’re not always arguing and I also feel like having multiple children and a house together is just as much of a commitment as having a legal partnership and we should do it asap for tax reasons. He says that we shouldn’t get married just for tax reasons and that I’m not going to die anytime soon. I know that I’m unlikely to die soon but anyone can die anytime and so I think it’s better to be prepared before it’s too late. I just can’t understand how my partner isn’t worried about the financial consequences for our children if it were to happen before we’re in a legal partnership.

I can’t see any financial downsides for my partner to marry me because I have more assets and earn more. When we discuss it, I often tell my partner that him not legally committing makes me feel like he doesn’t love me enough and I’m insecure that childbirth has made him not fancy me anymore. I’ve also said when upset that a small part of me sometimes worries that he has used me to get the children and house he always wanted (although I don’t honestly believe he’s the kind of person who’d do this). His response is always that I’m ridiculous or spiralling and that he does love me and wants to marry me someday.

Before children, we both did far more romantic gestures for each other and it’s not something I ever worried about. When I ask him to be more romantic now, he says he’ll try but he’s emotionally and physically exhausted. I feel the same but he somehow manages to muster the energy to play sport on some evenings after the children are in bed, which I’m way too tired to do (despite really missing all the exercise I used to do pre-children). I am really happy for him to play sport and have time away from the family but I wish he’d also put a bit more time into making me feel like he loves me. I feel like I put all of my small amount of energy (after looking after our children and work) into life admin and managing our household which involves reminding him to allocate quality time with me and trying to organise things for us to do together.

I’m now not really sure where this leaves us. There’s only so many times I can mention that I want to get married or have a civil partnership and whenever we have the conversation, I get upset. I’ve also tried just not mentioning it for a while but nothing changes and I still think about it all the time. l can’t help but feel like my partner just doesn’t want to commit to me but when I tell him this, he says he’s already committed and I’m being ridiculous. What should I do?

Don marry him. You would be completely insane to do this. He doesn’t even like you.

Get financial advice about how best to leave your will for your children but don’t marry him. Your children are not going to care about inheritances, they care about you, don’t be making decisions to marry someone you don’t love because of that!!!

He doesn’t want to marry you I’m afraid.

I don’t think they do if children are involved

1. He’s Future Faking you with the proposal—excuses and ever moving goalposts.
2. You can’t be sure that you’re the beneficiary on his pension. It literally takes 60 seconds to login to the portal and nominate someone else.

It sounds from your replies marriage is very much a financial security factor for you, with little romance attached. Does your partner see it the same way?

You've also shared that your relationship problems are the run of the mill sleep deprivation snappiness that comes with small kids - does he see it this way too? What are you both doing to move through this as a team? We've all been there, but a prolonged period of it requiring counselling isn't the average experience.

Gently, most of the replies on this thread are telling you you're not describing a healthy relationship, and you keep focusing on the security marriage will offer instead.

Focus on having some fun - individually and as a couple - and park the marriage talk for now. You're creating more stress for your life by pushing it at a time where he's clearly indicating he doesn't want to hear it. If I was your partner, and you kept bringing up a step I'd been clear I wasn't ready to take, I'd feel unheard and pressurized.

My partner is a great dad

My heart sank at this point in the opening post. It always means there are massive shortcomings somewhere that the OP is trying to brush to the side.

Reading the thread, it indeed seems to be the case.

He doesn't want to marry you. It's time to take the hint.

I would write a will leaving everything to the DC in trust and take out a life insurance policy (also in trust) to cover the IHT. £20/month should give you cover for about £100k (and totals about £5k over 20 years ago not so bad compared to IHT) which covers £250k of assets plus surely you can leave your share of the property to the DC without any IHT unless your half is worth over £500k. Plus open savings accounts for the DC and transfer regularly into there and gift them the max within the rules. If you have more assets than this you might be better off seeing a financial advisor anyway as being married won't particularly help
Then discuss marriage without the financial pressures or driver

Look at the 7 year gifting rules for gifting into trust and also at the rules around regular gifts from income, and consider these for your children. Some of the gifts to the children could be into pensions in their name (you can set these up, there is a max limit you can pay in each year but still worth doing for them, if you have the money spare, as it will compound up over a long time, plus they’ll get a tax rebate into their pensions each year). Also, don’t rely on his pension, start paying more into yours. Name your children as your pension beneficiaries.

I think you have this backwards.

Marriage is a legal and financial contract.

Love doesn't need it.

Society no longer expects it.

So there is no real reason to do it any more other than for legal and financial protection and certainty.

@3luckystars if he didn’t even like me, he’d have left long ago. We’re both financially stable enough to be fine independently so we’re together because we love each other, not for dependence on each other. I was clear I didn’t want to get married until a couple of years ago and he also brings that up as a reason for not doing it straight away

@Barnestine the children’s needs come first but both of us could financially support our children independently so they would take any prenup into account

@BoxingHare Isn’t being a great dad quite key in a relationship with children? I also said he’s very kind and patient and we share childcare and jobs around the house. I feel like with young children, those are some of the most important traits in a partner and there are lots of couples where the woman has to take on everything after children

Forgive me OP but it feels like your are masking emotional insecurity side of things with financial.
have you spoken about actual timelines, definitive dates etc.
small children, buying property etc is all very exhausting and perhaps he feels currently it’s just another thing on the list to do given the financial angle of it all.
whilst I agree with the financial aspect of it, and understand you love him, I would hold on the marriage part until you feel it from him.
why would you settle for him just booking the registry office? Do you not want more from him in terms of gesture? And do you not want him to show up in daily life.
if marriage only sorts things financially, what about the day to day arguing etc the insecurity the marriage is going no where…

@OooPourUsACupLove totally agree! You shouldn’t marry someone unless you love them but the only advantage of doing it is the legal and financial protection. That’s why before I was over the IHT allowance, I thought it was a waste of time and money

@whatintheworlddoyoumean I think my partner feels like getting married should be a more romantic event than I do. He’s said he’s happy with a small celebration though.

We both see the sleep deprivation as one of the biggest issues. We never get a full night’s sleep unless one of us is away and that’s very rare. To be fair, I have lots of friends with similar aged young children who have the same relationship challenges as us. We don’t argue all the time and still have good moments but it is different to before children when we never argued. We have done some relationship counselling, which was largely driven by me. We are trying to spend more quality time together without the children as that has been lacking in the past few years and he has been making some effort with that

@echohawk294 I think from what you've described you might have more luck meeting your goal of marriage if you hit pause on the conversation and then revisit it from his perspective of romanticism? The points you've raised about inheritance tax aren't tangible to him, as most people don't think in worst case scenario.

The sleep deprivation years are killer on a relationship for sure - and time together without kids is easier said than done!! The only way I've ever managed it is annual leave days + nursery.

@whatintheworlddoyoumean thanks for the constructive advice rather than just telling me he doesn’t want to be with me because his words and actions don’t suggest he wants or is about to leave me. Perhaps others haven’t dealt with the pressures of young children who don’t sleep well and are demanding. I think he’s an eternal optimist (he comes from a family where no one has a will or power of attorney etc) whereas I come from a family of realists where we have spreadsheets and instructions for worst possible scenarios! I don’t think he understands why I’m concerned about IHT in my 30s and has said that I only want to marry for financial reasons, which he doesn’t agree with

@echohawk294 mumsnet is a LTB echo chamber! Relationships definetely aren't easy at all times (I say this as a fellow sleep deprived mother, who is trying to push for marriage counselling 😅), but I think a key part is picking your moment. It sounds like marriage is really key to you and for valid reasons - but you need to change tact to achieve it.

Men are simple creatures. They like being praised and thinking things are their idea. If you can frame things in that way (it gives me the ick doing it, but needs must) it can be helpful.

I really would concentrate on having fun together for a while, getting through the sleep deprivation and liking each other's company wholeheartedly again, and then make him think it's his idea.

He doesn't want to marry you, and frankly I can't see why you want to marry him. Get very good estate planning advice instead, and think about how you can pass assets to your children before you die. You talk about wanting to give them a start as young adults, which if you had them at the usual fertile age for a woman and you expect an average lifespan will be well before you shuffle off this mortal coil.

Also, having a child with someone is a commitment to the child. Or it ought to be, anyway. It's not a commitment to the other person.

I think you should stop trying to convince him and decide how important it is to you.

If it's a dealbreaker, then act accordingly.

If it's not, let it go.

Do some work on your relationship together, if it's full of arguments and resentments.

In a couple of years time, revisit it or propose yourself if you still want it.

Possible care costs are the higher risk.

There might be nothing to be left to the kids.

I don’t have it backwards at all, the meaning of marriage isn’t financial security, yes it provides it which is a benefit but it’s not the meaning of marriage

@CommonlyKnownAs I don’t think anyone has children intending on separating. Personally, I see marriage as a contract that can (and commonly is) terminated whereas I think dealing with children after a separation is much harder. We want to get married because we love each other. I’m pretty sure most long-term couples go through rough patches when there are stressful circumstances with young children and I don’t think that in itself is a reason to separate

I don't understand this other than you expect him to use the assets to spend on your children while he is alive? Is that what you mean?

Hardly, some people have children without even being in a serious relationship!

Marriage is innately a contract with the other person, as is civil partnership. That's a commitment. You can only be in one at a time, you're limiting your ability to do that with anyone else and you're choosing for your relationship to be considered differently by the state in many contexts. Whereas it's entirely possible to have a child without any commitment to the other person, and people do it all the time.

I didn't say anything about separating either. But it's still not immediately obvious why you want to marry DP now, especially as he evidently isn't keen. So it's not a 'we'. So I maintain that your main priorities now should be good estate planning advice, for your circumstances as they are not as you want them to be. You can always change it later. And to think about how best to pass assets to your DC as young adults to get them well established in life. They could be quite old themselves by the time you die, after all.