Been told ALL men sleep with prostitutes!

[strawberriesandcream01]

Hi. I was talkin to a friend, her friends husband (they have 2 girls) goes to thailand for a boys holiday and sleeps with prostititues, the wife also knows this! He was talking and saying all men sleep with them. I certanely don't think my DP does and he works in germany all week. This man is a sleeze and goes out with a group of sleezy men who you can imagine do the same thing but surely he is wrong saying that?!

Not all men see prostitutes partly because there are enough women out there who will meet for sex for free!

However, there are plenty of men out there who don't sleep with any other women other than own dear partners. My DH has been approached by a prostitute in Asia but he turned her away and then phoned me to tell me about it because he was so shocked at the time!

Sex without love is not immoral. All sex between consenting adults is moral. Insisting on love before you will have sex is a preference (or indeed fetish): fine if that's what you want and can find a partner who agrees with you, but it doesn't make you better than other people.

Exploiting a poor girl who has been tricked or forced into prostitution is immoral.

dh posting:

I've never had sex with a prostitute.
None of my male friends have ever had sex with prostitutes to my knowledge.
I can only think of a handful who I think might have had sex with a prostitute.

Madamez talks sense as usual. I'd say most of my male friends would either a) find the idea of paying for sex sordid or / and b) they wouldn't cheat on their partners.

I know plenty of men who have never been to lapdancing clubs either.

This is off-topic but I don't think that all sex between consenting adults is moral. That ignores a) harm caused to other parties (e.g. spouses) and b) the circumstances in which consent is given. If your landlord offered you the choice of sex or eviction you might well consent. That doesn't sound OK to me.

Toadinthehole:I don't think that sex under coercion is sex with consent (your landlord example). As to sex when one partner is supposed to be in a sexually exclusive relationship with someone else, well I suppose it's not very moral. (I forgot to add, consenting adults who are not supposed to be in exclusive relationships, because monogamy is another of those weird mundane fetishes I don't have, so don't think much about). IN fact it's probably less moral than paying for it (if the payer is not in a sexually exclusive relationsip, and the sex worker is working of her own free will.)

"All sex between consenting adults is moral"

• even if it results in a child who is disowned by one or both parents?
• even if it results in the spreading of disease, including to children?
• even if it means deceit and breaking of promises?
• even if it's done in public?

X post madamez

Not x post, I mean I hadn't read your post, sorry.

In what way is monogamy a fetish and not a preference?

Why does taking money for having sex automatically mean the woman is being coerced. Surely some of the prostitutes charging lots of money are doing it because they actually enjoy it, not just because they need the money. I've done jobs I enjoyed, but got paid for nonetheless. I wasn't coereced into doing the jobs.

BTW - DH is in the Navy, and I know of at least one of his friends that has slept with a prostitute (he was young, free and single at the time), but I don't think that most and definitely not all of them have. DH finds it so shocking that somebody would do this, that he would definitely have told me about it. However, I think a lot of them do have extra marital relations that they don't pay for when away. Just hope DH hasn't. I don't think he has, but you never know.

I think that the idea that prostitutes do it because they enjoy it is a myth. They do it for the money. Some through choice because they earn a lot more than they would at any other job, a lot because they have to sell their bodies for drugs and the really sad ones are those forced into it to provide money for someone else. Any man who has to resort to paying for sex from a woman that he doesn't know is inadequate in some way. They should imagine how they would feel if it was their daughter. If it is not good enough for their daughter it is not good enough for anyone else's daughter.

OFFS lets not forget the long long history of women being forced to sell sex to one man for a lifetime whatever the women thought about it (Rape in marriage only became a crime in 1991, up until then a man could have sex on his wife's body any time he fancied it and the law wouldn't be remotely interested). Dress it up in all the hearts and flowers fluff you like but that has always been what most marriages were about and many still are: the man provides the cash, the woman provides the domestic and sexual services.
If a woman chooses to charge by the hour and see more than one client why is that worse.

It is a very cynical view of marriage!

Madamez's view of marriage is one that I've heard before and is worth discussing.

Certainly being coerced into marriage, and being forced to have sex within marriage are both degrading for women. A bad marriage for those, or other reasons, can be a prison. That's why we have more safeguards for women now: wifebeating is not as socially acceptable as it once was; women can and do sue for divorce if they are not happy. Women now have more autonomy within marriage, eg own their own money.

However, although prostitution can in theory be a lifestyle choice allowing a woman freedom from male domination, in practice she is far more exploited and restricted esp when there are pimps and people-traffickers involved.

And there is no getting away from the fact that multiple partners is unhygienic and leads to infection.

Some people would argue that promiscuity, practised by either sex, is bad for the soul: leads to self loathing, inability to form normal attachments etc and I guess Madamez disagrees with that.

The fact that every main world religion has seeked to curtail sex with multiple partners for thousands of years, by taboo and overt rules, doesn't mean Madamez shouldn't question it, but makes it unlikely she will convert very many to her way of thinking.

Elasticwoman, religion is all bullshit anyway, its purpose is social control. All religions have condoned slavery and genocide and other brutalities at times: the reason religions have taboos around sex and food is that hunger and lust are the two main human drives, so religions seek to control these to make people obedient.

Quote from Elastic Women: "However, although prostitution can in theory be a lifestyle choice allowing a woman freedom from male domination, in practice she is far more exploited and restricted esp when there are pimps and people-traffickers involved."

Yes I feel prostitution can be a positive life choice I also believe prostitution can be something horrible and exploitative. We can't generalise.

I understand why so many posters are upset by working girls, it's hard to understand unless you've been there yourself.

Elastic woman says "Some people would argue that promiscuity, practised by either sex, is bad for the soul: leads to self loathing, inability to form normal attachments etc and I guess Madamez disagrees with that."^

I don't think Madamez can agree or disagree with that. Every sex workers experience is unique. You'll find that there are many sexworkers who feel that the freedom offered sexwork is cathartic; for others;-the opposite.

Reading between the lines, lots of posters appear to want Madamez to defend/explain herself, she can't and wont do that as it's impossible. I can see that the 'love fetish' comment was taken in a different context from what was meant;-it was interperated by posters who see the world through the lens of "all prostitutes are victims of abuse/bad relationships" and "all prostitutes have had terrible lives" etc. If you don't ascribe to that view, you wouldn't read the comment in that way.

And, no I don't believe for one second that all men see prostitutes, or that all clients of prostitutes are scum or are only concerned with degrading women. Speaking pragmatically;- yes sexworkers will attract those sort of persons but there are an awful lot of lonely men out there who for reasons of looks/social disability or personal circumstances are unable to sustain a normal relationship. It's not all about the quick fuck/blowey from the Amsterdam whore on the stag night.

?We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.? Coelho

I agree with Madamez that religion can be a form of social control, that terrible things have been done in the name of religion and with the blessing of religion. That doesn't mean that everything about it is wrong - just that it can be misused.

Slavery is a good example - this was at least condoned by the church, or several churches, but the movement to ban slavery arose from a man driven by Christian principles.

Yaryar I am judging a way of life - prostitution - not the individual prostitutes so your Coelho quote is irrelevant. A transaction between a prostitute and a client involves far more than just the two of them, and neither you nor Madamez have denied that the practice spreads disease and may cause unwanted pregnancy.

A friend of mine recently told me her DP regularily went to strip joints for "a laugh". to think of her DP and his dorky friends all getting together to laugh at women with (statistically) few life choices and often miserable expereinces. Friend assured me that ALL men go to strip clubs, and she would rather that than if he cheated on her [hmmm] like those are the only two options available, your DP gets his kicks sitting around watching poor women take their clothes off OR he cheats on you. And even if they were the only options, I would rather DP had an affair with a consenting adult woman than help finance an industry that traffiks in human flesh, and exploits untold numbers of poor, vulnerable and desperate women.

and now for the reply posts from people defending the industry....

All men do NOT go to strip clubs. Many men take the view that if they can't touch they're not interested.

First time I met the husband of a new friend, he asked me quite seriously if my dh would like to come with him to a strip joint!
Dh not interested but friend's h eventually left her for another woman. After he'd fathered 4 children with the wife he left.

i'm a man and i've never slept with a prostitute and the idea that it's the norm among men is baffling. i know one of my friends who slept with a prostitute years ago when he was about 17 and hammered. he certainly still regrets that decision.

as for the strip club argument i'd say a high percentage of men (at least ion my social circle) have been to one, but i know of very few people who would regularly go. i've been twice in my life.once at an 18th and once at a stag do.

On a stag do a few years ago there was a half-hearted, drunken suggestion of a lap-dancing club. Most of us jeered it off the stage. We didn't want to do it - why spend a fortune on over-priced drinks to see some sweaty bint cavorting in your face?

So we went to a cheap, studenty club to eye up some real totty.

And I don't know anyone who has been to a prostitute.

my DH has slept with one, in praque when he was around 18 (he is 34 now i met him when he was 30) He is highly ashamed now but went there with a group of lads he worked with. they even went to see a live sex show. pleased i met him later on in life thats for sure!

My dh has slept with several,was in forces and it was quite the norm in his squadron-hes been upfront from the beginning about it-I don't have issues surrounding it,I wasn't with him then,and he was single.