I do not care if ds and i are estranged

[PeoniesAreMyFavouriteFlowers]

He is 20.

Has done nothing since getting bad A level results. Did not work for them so it was to be expected. He didn’t work for his GCSEs either but did ok in those.

Refuses to get a job. Any job. Doesn’t see why he should.

Refuses to clean up after himself in the kitchen and boy, he leave a mess. He might deign to wash up a pan he has used once in a while.

Eats vast quantities of food. I mean, he eats 9 eggs per day. I have started hiding food because I can’t afford it and I am sick of having to go to the supermarket all the time.

He sleeps all day. Goes to the gym. Scrolls. Sleeps. Eats. Gym. Scrolls. Shits. Eats. Sleeps.

His father pays for his phone and gym. We are divorced. That’s between them. His father is not helpful. And is actually as helpless as I am in this situation.

Ds has smashed things up when I have said no to lifts in the car somewhere or extra food. I am afraid of what he will smash up next. Perhaps me when I next say no to something he wants.

He now apparently has a gf. I think they are talking about moving in together. I pity the girl but I am not getting involved.

When he moves out or if I move and do not let him come with me (cannot afford to move yet), I really will not want to see him again given the contempt he has shown me and my home. I do not like him at all. He is lazy, violent and entitled.

I have other dcs at school. All doing well. They like him. I don’t interfere in their relationship.

I just don’t want to be a part of his life. I have seen his character. I do not like what I see. I have housed, fed, clothed and educated him for all his life and that is me done after his awful behaviour. I don’t even want to be part of any of his successes knowing what I know about him.

I know people will judge and say oh it’s your parenting failure. My other dcs are fine. Good work ethic. Doing well.

Evil of me? I don’t think so. Overwhelmed and trapped.

There is always one.
Where is your sympathy for the OP?

I get you OP. I’m sorry. I have an older teenage boy who is being particularly obnoxious at the moment. I remember myself being quite horrible at that age and I was generally a biddable nice girl.

What I sometimes do is look at photos and think of times when he was a sweet baby/cute, loving kid and say to myself, he’s still that child underneath.

Your boy will come back eventually. It’s a difficult age and they’re facing a difficult world. I think the hormones do something to their brains.

So living with his dad is an option but he just won’t go?

I do think your son probably has a mental health issue and time away from home may be good for him as well as achieving your goal of him moving out. You should speak with his dad and come-up with a plan, ie - pack essentials whilst he’s at the gym and his dad collects these and then him from the gym and takes him to his place for a ‘break’, so everyone can calm down. Once there, keep sending over more of his stuff so that he stays there permanently and be firm in ‘no return’ as it wasn’t working out and it’s not healthy for any of you to live like that.

So sorry to hear about this OP, it's an awful way for you and your other DC to live. Despite other posters trying to analyse where 'you went wrong' in his upbringing, he's now a grown man and the current situation is one of domestic abuse for which you need support and a plan to move on from. It's not as simple as just changing the locks on an abuser. If it were that easy, victims of domestic abuse would only need a locksmith, wouldn't they?!

Contact Women’s Aid for support - they understand child to parent abuse. Take care.

It’s possible to feel sad for how things are for your son and also see that his behaviour is absolutely not ok and feel empathy for you too.

I can’t speak for the PP but I am wondering what is going on for him and that makes me have empathy for him.
Maybe he is neurodiverse. It’s a shame you weren’t listened to when he was younger.

I do think for you and your younger kids, it’s better if he leaves but please don’t completely cut him off. Try and maintain some relationship, but keep firm boundaries to protect yourself. He might need you and he’s still very young.

It’s pretty obvious from your own descriptions yes.

What happened with his dad?

'' I dont understand your contempt for him though I must admit. He is still your child and it sound like you actually hate him. I think as parents we are there to guide them and you can put in consequences without showing him hate or deciding you need to never see him.''

Ah yes, the words that hammer another nail into the abused mother's coffin. That she is a bad mother if she doesn't declare and demonstrate her unconditional love for her abusive son.

Unconditional love doesn't exist in nature. Every creature on earth exists to fulfill its own potential. Our culture guilts mothers into a hell of a lot of self sacrifice for the benefit of men and children, and the whole of society with this prescription of unconditional love.

I have seen this in my own family. With my Mum and younger brother and with my own DS. The rage, violence and hostility is depleting.

In both our cases it was / still is undiagnosed ND
and an unhappy tense marriage. Police involvement worked but different parenting approaches caused conflict. It was always the mother who was the target and the weak father stepping back almost enabling it and sub consciously or even consciously enjoying seeing the mother violated by proxy (what he wanted to do).

In our case there were other younger DC exposed to it all. I will also say that I am also likely ND so emotional capacity is easily overwhelmed. All of these things may explain behaviour but never excuse it. There is a huge amount of choice and control - your DS doesnt blow up and trash the gym. I don’t grump and snap at my colleagues. Moving out is the way to go. They need to get busy and uncomfortable managing their own domestic, working, social lives.

Can you talk about his DF? Would it be counter productive for him to go there?

I have a good relationship with my brother and son now but it’s at arms length - would never live with either. They have both grown and are incredibly sociable, respected with good careers. But their romantic relationships never last - but that’s on them to get diagnosed and undertake treatment / therapy for emotional regulation. I have held that door open for at least a decade.

The only way through this is for him to leave. These things are often a complex mix of things and if one thing changes then it might reveal something else to tackle.

It's the ultimate Stockholm Syndrome!

There really are some pricks on this post - our son went through an awful stage mid to late teens, yet had caring parents with strong boundaries.in his case it was more about the crowd he was mixing in - a lot of kids from comfortably off homes with high expectations of bank of mum and dad, this was in Bristol - so we moved away , he got a house share and an apprenticeship ( at 17) and he improved a lot from that point - some young adults just take the piss and are horrible to have around regardless of their upbringing - if you haven’t had this situation, then say nothing and thank your lucky stars

Change the locks?

But on a more serious note, this sounds like my DS aged 14 when he was younger.
He's currently doing very well from a mixture of understanding his ADHD, parenting firmly but in the short term (his brain understands earning his screen time today but not a vague reward at the weekend) and refusing to respond to chaos. Pretending it isn't happening.
I would recommend looking at this book which is about anxiety in children but it's been extended to Failure to Launch (adult children who won't move out).

https://www.spacetreatment.net/manual-and-books

https://www.centerforwisemindliving.com/space-failure-to-launch

That's not fair. At some point a young adult has to take accountability for themselves

Agree. But they don't need a one bed flat, no young person can afford that, it was well out of my reach even as a young professional 20 years ago. You go into a houseshare for 500 pcm or so, and you aren't left with much, no, so you learn how to survive and make your way (and live with other people who won't give you any parental leeway!)

I'm so sorry for you going through this OP. I agree you should give him a month to move out and if he doesn't go by then he should be physically removed - police, locks, whatever it takes.

Gosh, it took a couple of years, visits to lots of different specialists, two ADOS tests and finally meetings of an MDT with a psychiatrist, clinical psychologist, nurses and therapists in CAMHS to diagnose my DDs autism.

But you can diagnose instantly based on a few paragraphs online and without actually having met the person in question? Amazing! You could save CAMHS/AMHS a fortune.

Where is his dad in this? I would be telling dad to come and collect his son now. Change the locks and get some peace.

Amazing - specialist study for years to be able to diagnose autism, and certainly don't do it based on third party internet posts, you must be incredibly talented.

Agreed — Sorry I worded that wrong - my son was in a house share from 17 and still is) albeit it only 2 of them at 27 (London) - but suprisingly whilst common in bigger cities house shares can be a bit few and far between in many areas, especially if no Unis or fewer younger people . And can be pretty expensive too plus bills in many areas were they are plentiful -