A messy wife and children

[Stu01]

Hello,

This is not a new problem. Every solution I’ve tried has failed and left me feeling more and more powerless.

So to the context - my wife and I are full time professionals who do the exact same job. Our hours are mostly identical. She does an extra half hour or so of work more at home in the evenings than I.

We’ve been together for all of her adult life and most of mine. This is not a new problem.

My wife loves to clean - she genuinely gets a buzz out of it (no idea why) but doesn’t do it- and she is very good at remembering birthdays and clubs and knowing day to day things. She is an excellent mother - phenomenal. We have two children, 10 and 7, and the youngest is a challenge. I find myself ignored and derided by my youngest and my choice is to walk away because otherwise I shall be furious.

My wife has been brought up by two loving parents who did everything for her. Her mother did wish me luck when we moved in together. Ever since I have known her, her life has been filled with clutter and love.

In contrast, I have scraped myself out of several challenging home lives and have lived in pressurised, immaculate homes. I was taught from a young age to clean, tidy, iron and take responsibility for myself. I didn’t lack in love, but I knew my mess should be dealt with.

Our houses have always been full of work and possessions. As the children came into our lives, we declutterred and she stayed at home to cook, clean and raise our children. Here is where it began.

For ten years now, our houses have deteriorated into a constant day to day clutter-fest. Children’s toys, shoes, paperwork, washing, clothes, bags, books and whatever else.

I have handled the laundry, half the ironing, cooking and most of the day to day clean up since the children started school. But as time goes by I’ve seen that she and the children don’t really have the tidiness of the house as a priority. I on the other hand find it hard to manage mentally and practically in a messy and disorganised house.

Laundry I have done can be left unmoved for a week until I snap. Ironing I have done is discarded on the floor and crumpled within days. Toys yearned for are trodden and broken. Meanwhile, the TV is on non-stop, the noise grows and I oscillate in a corner.

I’ve raised my feelings, suggested things and even done everything in a passive aggressive fury. No change. I’ve let the carpets be covered and trampled all over it. No change. I’ve bagged it all up and threatened to throw it away. No change. I’ve bagged some up and actually thrown it away. No change. My current approach is to only pick up whatever I have interacted with and deal with my own washing (excepting school uniform). My wife likes it when I iron her clothes - they are quietly languishing.

Resentment builds, I retreat into myself and find the only clear space to sit down and read. But I can’t concentrate. Our communication has deteriorated and she feels lonely.

She’s lonely mostly in the weekday mornings because I get on and organise myself. She on the other hand cannot find the children’s uniforms (we take responsibility for ironing and storing half each in a designated place) or water bottles (we have about 30), can’t decide what shoes to where (48 pairs), makes their breakfast (both children can do it themselves as we’ve taught them), does her hair and make up, and personally dresses our 7 year old (who refuses to do so) who miraculously can do it themselves on weekends. I just can’t bear to berate or dictate to them anymore - I’m just so fed up and isolated.

So I’m back from the gym at 6.45. She’s dressed by then. I eat breakfast, shower and change, and then I wash up and tidy up and wait. If people can’t find things, I tell them where I saw them last (on the floor). If people aren’t doing anything, I point out what is needed. I teach 10-11 year olds and know what they are capable of. The house descends into a fury of lateness and panic - I am still and seething and my children are dawdling around barefoot.

I fear I am being petty and pedantic. I fear we are babying the children. I fear I am unfeeling and not setting them a good example. I fear my expectations are too great and hers too low. I fear I am not being inclusive. I fear for my marriage. I fear for my sanity.

What do I do next?

I haven't read the whole thread but I have an ADHD partner and he's a messy bastard. We don't have kids but have four pets who are also messy bastards. I like a clean and tidy house so I just clean it. Life has been much easier since I accepted I just do it all. Fortunately he's great at DIY, car mechanicking, or any of those kind of detailed tasks that I can't be bothered with (researching bathroom fans, sports watches, etc etc). So he does all those kind of jobs, and I have a never ending list for him. Focus on what she's good at and take responsibility for the rest is my response, and also try to let go a bit.

I can hear your pain, but you sound very angry and this is ruining your relationship with your wife and even more with your children.

I think you need therapy. I am not saying that to insult you but because You say that you were brought up to be regimentally tidy and organised. Did you ever consider that may have gone over the top? And now you are imposing it on your wife and kids.. who by the sound of it are quietly rebelling. Im not saying the rest of your family is perfect, no one is, but therapy might help you find a way to reconnect with them.

I don't think you can continue like that, and therapy would help you find other ways of dealing with it. For example... I was once told that everything is better in the open air. If the house is messy everyone is fraught, get them all out to run around in the park or have a walk, play ball or something and just try to relax even if its just for an hour.

Primary age children are messy, disorganised, have lots of toys and clothes. Its just the way it is. I do remember getting rid of a lot of primary gear as they grew out of it and suddenly there was a lot more room in the house. Their lives are jam packed and sometimes the goal is just to get them out of bed, clean, fed, watered, with the right equipment for the day, on time and in the right frame of mind to learn and that is a WIN. That is success and yes that might mean that there's a mess to clear up afterwards. But one cannot do everything all at once all the time. Your wife is getting three people ready to a deadline.

You mention your DD wants help getting ready for school SHE IS SEVEN. What she wants is to have her mum around her before going into school. That's calming for her. You say that she can dress her self etc on the weekends.. because there's no rush, or not as much stress and need to not forget anything. She's more relaxed, so that's easier for her. But you sound so resentful and angry about this. Children become more and more independent as they grow, they need to make mistakes to learn, but its healthy for them to know that they have parents they can lean on a bit if they need to. It's not pandering to help primary school children out.. they will need different help as they do grow.

if you have a SAHP .. they can probably get on top of it. But you and your wife work full time. That's hard. But it also benefits you both. You say that your children, after a busy day at school then go to afterschool clubs and activities (which is good for them) and are then too tired and exhausted to tidy up and this results in a screaming session. I would say that is because they are too tired and exhausted and are stressed after giving their all at school and the activity and then basically being scolded for untidyness when they get in.

You quite frequently say you are fuming or passive aggressive and mention that your 7 year old ignores you. She probably doesn't know how to deal with that. Imagine if your boss, twice your height, behaved like that to you.

Instead of getting angry about the "mess" and resenting the chores that you do. I think you would benefit from thinking of some practical solutions. You cannot change everything overnight but you could start one step at a time. EG.. I had to try to instill a "coming home routine" and a "morning routine" (basically setting up a labelled "station" where the shoes /coat/hat/gloves go, ..unpacking the school bag for home work and lunch box checks. But it can't be done with scolding but encouragement or overnight, it takes time to learn it. Sometimes it worked beautifully, sometimes there were lapses, but it helped overall and the lapses were not treated as a big deal. I got some of these ideas from an American website called Flylady, which is a bit folksy but it did have some helpful organising ideas which worked. There are lots of these sites around now.

I also think you could pay someone to come in temporarily and give extra help with things like the laundry and de cluttering as it bothers you so much, until you all get on top of it. Because taking on a big build up of things is very hard if everyone has a busy lifestyle. It's better than letting something like that take over your life. But most of all you need some help to get over your resentment about this.

Laundry I have done can be left unmoved for a week until I snap. Ironing I have done is discarded on the floor and crumpled within days. Toys yearned for are trodden and broken. Meanwhile, the TV is on non-stop, the noise grows and I oscillate in a corner.

fwiw that sounds like our house. I’d say pretty normal stuff with a 7 and 10yo unless you’re behind them to tidy up (I’m hoping you’re not expecting your dwife to jump up and tidy the stuff you’ve folded!). That’s just part of parenting.

I find myself ignored and derided by my youngest and my choice is to walk away because otherwise I shall be furious.

That though isn’t normal. You’re basically stepping back from parenting your youngest dc. Not taking any responsibility at all to 1- parent them, 2- have a handle on your temper.
Nope you’re choosing the easy way out. But somehow it’s then your dwife fault for not making them tidy up and/or look after their belongings. 😵‍💫😵‍💫

Maybe start parenting your dcs to the standard you feel is appropriate. You’re with them as much as your dwife. Plenty of time to make a difference.
Also many answers on here are to get divorced etc… If you feel,that’s the only answer, go ahead. But also ask yourself 1- how will you deal with the mess and your dcs behaviour when theyre with you 50/50 and 2- if you can do whatever you feel is appropriate then, why can’t you do it now?
The issue with the mess you’re mentioning isn’t just your dwife responsibility.

Can you sit down with your wife and explain how much it affects your mental health? She might take it more seriously than just saying it in passing where it might get seen as nagging. I cannot stand clutter and declutter on an ongoing basis.

Tips are
watch minimalist videos on you tube such as the minimalist mom

have a place for absolutely everything and if it doesnt have a place make one or get rid of item as it mustn’t be important then. When you have a place tell each family member where it goes.

only keep things you or family 90% need or love

have a touch it once rule, put things in dishwasher not on counters, sink etc, as you leave a room, take items out that need to be tidied. Explain to family these new rules

if it only takes two minutes, do it now

have set days for laundry and do then on those days no matter what, set a reminder in Alexa or your phone to do this.

declutter on a weekly or even daily basis, have a box or bag in wardrobe ready for donations to be popped in whenever needed

don’t allow anyone in the house to throw clothes on the floor, laundry bag or in wardrobe straight away

@Luckyingame

”contaminants” - wtf?

Agree. Sometimes you wonder why people can’t see the wood for the trees!

Just seen they do have a cleaner!

in that case OP you need to get some plastic boxes, one for each member of the family, labelled with their name , get a spare one too, marked BIN, and keep them in the sitting room. Every night anything left lying around gets tossed into its owners box. Anything not identifiable goes in BIN. The following evening BIN is emptied into the bin, as is anything left in a named box. Clothing, books, shoes, paper work, homework, projects, knitting, iPad, whatever it is , gets binned.

I think you see the issues as a list of tasks and if that was all someone had to do it is achievable

However with other people around all wanting a bit of your wife it isn’t just one task she can concentrate on

Loading the dishwasher could take a couple of hours If dc1 wants help with homework or dc2 wants help with finding something. Go back to loading dishwasher then dc 1 has another problem then return to loading and dc2 wants something else. Then back to loading etc etc
It all takes time

Yes, and the mental load on her can be so high that all the tasks become extra straws on her overloaded back.

Get a housekeeper , not a cleaner a housekeeper . They earn about the same but the jobs are very different. A housekeeper will keep on top of stuff during the week .
mum very messy myself and go though periods of massive chaos followed by super organised ones , it ADHD related . I’m sure I drive my DH crazy .

I could be your wife, OP. You could be my DH. We both have a similar situation, two younger children and a teenager me potential undiagnosed ADHD, my DH a very much OCD type and autistic traits.

He drives me mad and vice versa. He hates my messy ways, lack of organisational skills, inability to prioritise.

Equally, I hate his nitpicking, micromanaging and tendency to put me down in spite of my best efforts. I do accept that I must be infuriating to live with, yet I can also see just how much it is a bit condescending the way he insists his way is always best.

My advice is to be kinder to each other, shift expectations, and get systems in place for your wife. It's good to be different, but not too different, and building on ways to become better as a team will help you both.

It's the only way me and my DH manage.

Why are you doing half of jobs each? Putting away half the school uniform each? What a daft idea. Why are you standing around watching her struggle in the morning? You're nitpicking rather than working as a team. You need to actively parent your children instead of walking away when it's tricky and blaming her.

After years of arguments about clutter and housework, we ended up booking a cleaner once a month. We're not wealthy and that's as often as we can afford... but it does force everyone to declutter a bit once a month before she comes, out of embarrassment.
Obviously we don't leave everything to that monthly visit. I do a quick kitchen and bathroom clean once a week, and my husband hoovers. But it's way better than me either doing nearly everything, or the damage to our relationship from constantly nagging to no avail.
Some people just aren't bothered by mess, or have other stuff going on with their brains that makes it difficult for them to be tidy. Some are lazy. But if you can manage it, booking a cleaner and each paying half can save your relationship.

You obviously need to get a cleaner in every week and do a complete clear out of the house.

Your kids need a break from activities.

All shoes should be taken off at the front door and put on a shoe rack.

There is no need for 48 pairs of shoes.

Also, your children need more than one set of uniforms each.

I am completely disorganised and I have executive dysfunction. Which is why I get everything ready the night before for my child.

Something that is a massive concern to me is you swanning off to the gym every morning and leaving your wife to do everything. At night YOU need to gather uniforms and hang them from a hook on each of your children’s bedroom doors. Underwear and socks and whatever else your children need should also be hung from their bedroom doors so they are ready first thing in the morning.

School bags need to be hung on hooks at the front door.

Shoes need to be ready at the front door.

These are things you do the night before. These are things you should be helping with. It shouldn’t all be up to your wife.

Hoarding is actually classed as a mental problem. I know, I'm a terrible one. My friend bought me a good book about it written by a woman who helps people declutter and says that it can take a very long time. She goes into the reasons why it happens. I have most of them.
Will look for the book when i get home later

I can never get my head round the fact that some people think it’s normal and affordable to have a housekeeper 😂

This is me! I can’t help it and I love to procrastinate rather than do what I’m supposed to do, hence answering your question now!
It’s not what I want from life.

Either get a professional declutterer and have a big clean up and then hire a cleaner for a couple of mornings a week OR divorce. Essentially you are not compatible. Not sure why that didn't came out when you lived together before having kids.

they often earn less than a cleaner and it doesn’t need to be full time . Off course its expensive but lots of people have cleaners and none of those replies

I think there could be some old school retired women who would be very good at this as a part time job.

Because I’ve rarely come across a man so domesticated!

Mumsnetters love diagnosing adhd /autism based on a limited snapshot.

No clinical expertise, just vibes.

Because we’ve lived with it. And it IS hereditary. And we know what and how it feels like.

And it feels like the op’s post.

Yes, I'm sure it feels like that.

I think the poster was being ironic.

Your first paragraph is the answer. Leave