A messy wife and children

[Stu01]

Hello,

This is not a new problem. Every solution I’ve tried has failed and left me feeling more and more powerless.

So to the context - my wife and I are full time professionals who do the exact same job. Our hours are mostly identical. She does an extra half hour or so of work more at home in the evenings than I.

We’ve been together for all of her adult life and most of mine. This is not a new problem.

My wife loves to clean - she genuinely gets a buzz out of it (no idea why) but doesn’t do it- and she is very good at remembering birthdays and clubs and knowing day to day things. She is an excellent mother - phenomenal. We have two children, 10 and 7, and the youngest is a challenge. I find myself ignored and derided by my youngest and my choice is to walk away because otherwise I shall be furious.

My wife has been brought up by two loving parents who did everything for her. Her mother did wish me luck when we moved in together. Ever since I have known her, her life has been filled with clutter and love.

In contrast, I have scraped myself out of several challenging home lives and have lived in pressurised, immaculate homes. I was taught from a young age to clean, tidy, iron and take responsibility for myself. I didn’t lack in love, but I knew my mess should be dealt with.

Our houses have always been full of work and possessions. As the children came into our lives, we declutterred and she stayed at home to cook, clean and raise our children. Here is where it began.

For ten years now, our houses have deteriorated into a constant day to day clutter-fest. Children’s toys, shoes, paperwork, washing, clothes, bags, books and whatever else.

I have handled the laundry, half the ironing, cooking and most of the day to day clean up since the children started school. But as time goes by I’ve seen that she and the children don’t really have the tidiness of the house as a priority. I on the other hand find it hard to manage mentally and practically in a messy and disorganised house.

Laundry I have done can be left unmoved for a week until I snap. Ironing I have done is discarded on the floor and crumpled within days. Toys yearned for are trodden and broken. Meanwhile, the TV is on non-stop, the noise grows and I oscillate in a corner.

I’ve raised my feelings, suggested things and even done everything in a passive aggressive fury. No change. I’ve let the carpets be covered and trampled all over it. No change. I’ve bagged it all up and threatened to throw it away. No change. I’ve bagged some up and actually thrown it away. No change. My current approach is to only pick up whatever I have interacted with and deal with my own washing (excepting school uniform). My wife likes it when I iron her clothes - they are quietly languishing.

Resentment builds, I retreat into myself and find the only clear space to sit down and read. But I can’t concentrate. Our communication has deteriorated and she feels lonely.

She’s lonely mostly in the weekday mornings because I get on and organise myself. She on the other hand cannot find the children’s uniforms (we take responsibility for ironing and storing half each in a designated place) or water bottles (we have about 30), can’t decide what shoes to where (48 pairs), makes their breakfast (both children can do it themselves as we’ve taught them), does her hair and make up, and personally dresses our 7 year old (who refuses to do so) who miraculously can do it themselves on weekends. I just can’t bear to berate or dictate to them anymore - I’m just so fed up and isolated.

So I’m back from the gym at 6.45. She’s dressed by then. I eat breakfast, shower and change, and then I wash up and tidy up and wait. If people can’t find things, I tell them where I saw them last (on the floor). If people aren’t doing anything, I point out what is needed. I teach 10-11 year olds and know what they are capable of. The house descends into a fury of lateness and panic - I am still and seething and my children are dawdling around barefoot.

I fear I am being petty and pedantic. I fear we are babying the children. I fear I am unfeeling and not setting them a good example. I fear my expectations are too great and hers too low. I fear I am not being inclusive. I fear for my marriage. I fear for my sanity.

What do I do next?

If the dw and dc have adhd then no amount of rewards will work.

This sounds like my SIL and my brother hates it. I think she has ADHD.

I've advised him to get in some deep cleaners.

Are you a man or a woman?!

That's not necessarily the case. Of course, all situations are different but sometimes it's overcoming the mental "block" to starting a task and keeping motivated along the way which are a big part of the issues. Positive accountability can really help in some situations.

But Op and the other kids can slowly rearrange, praise and help each other and achieve a lot.

Divorce her and co-parent from your own tidy house, at least you will only have yourself to tidy

How is that relevant?

I think you need to work on your communication. Because if you address your wife and children in the style you've posted here, your key message is likely going to be lost in the angsty prose, its going to sound as though you're exaggerating to indulge your word smithery, and its going to be their eyeballs that are oscillating. Bluntly, its very hard to take a person seriously and hear the point when wading through the a sea of analogies, emotions and what may sound to them hyperbole.
If you're finding your home conditions insufferable, you need to sit down with your wife and tell her that if x, z and z (clear specific things) do not happen, you will want to keep seperate homes. If this feels too much, then I'd suggest creating retreat areas for yourself if your home is big enough.

But the OP can't cope with parenting the kids. He's so annoyed by the younger one that he disengages from them. He admits that his wife is better at this.

This is a situation where they both have huge strengths and weaknesses. There is a lot of work to be done and they might ultimately be fundamentally incompatible, but it's worth giving it a shot to sort things out, if they can both re-engage positively with each other. At the moment, I suspect they've checked out from each other.

I have an autistic child who hoards tons of stuff and is unable to tidy. It drives me mad. I found that better organisation doesn’t help because all the stuff that is put away come back out and ends up back on the floor.

The only thing that helps is to have less stuff. Put everything that is unneeded including most toys in the garage. Only bring back what is really needed. One in one out system. Then donate over time. Then the clutter left at home becomes more manageable. You don’t need 20 water bottles, you need two per child so they are on rotation. When you have less stuff it’s easier to see what you have and clean as you go.

I saw similar advice from someone with ADHD - they said to remove the storage solutions in your house so you can’t hide mess and have it creep out again over time. Organise furniture so that everything you have is visible and that will help you figure out what really needs to be in the house.

I couldn’t live like that either……..the clutter and chaos would push me over the edge not to mention the constant disregard for broken toys and possessions……where is the respect for things????
The children are old enough to look after stuff and put things away and your home needs change and it needs it now.
You OP, need to have the conversation with your wife, that’s your starting point because moving forward you both need to have a united front.
No doubt some will disagree with me but I have seen this irl on several occasions to the point that the household in chaos broke someone completely and the outcome wasn’t pleasant.

This is a good answer. Perhaps you should be in charge of getting ready for school, and she can do anything else. Also if stop doing the ironing. You're being a martyr there.

Your post has made me feel sad for you and your family @Stu01

I sympathise a lot as I struggle to function in mess. I also find I need to tidy and clean as a form of control if the rest of my life is out of control. Intense tidying can therefore also be an issue as well as intense messiness.

There are a lot of things going on here!

Sounds like you love your wife but this deterioration has seeped in and is affecting your whole family - not just you.

It sounds like you want to salvage this situation and make it better rather than walk away.

I think you need outside help.
Family therapy to help with improving relationships - maybe you’re not seen as fun by your kids so they’re not listening to you. maybe your youngest is not so keen on school and that’s showing through a delay in dressing?
Help with decluttering but more importantly help with implementing basic simple systems to help the whole family function better.
Help and advice with dividing your work more so it plays to each of your strengths.
Possible medical help with assessments for ADHD for family members.

You may need to realise that one of your tasks will always be tidying and putting away for an hour every day and resetting the house last thing at night. (I always do this because I need order in the morning)

Can you find a local life coach, family therapist, declutterer - these people do exist.

I wish your family luck @Stu01

I can’t stand the way people immediately say “divorce” as if that would be the best solution for a man who loves his wife and their children.
I completely second this. I think the comments come from a particular section of MN, usually, not always, much younger, who do not have experience of long term relationships and what they involve.
Unfortunately, I don't really go along with the rest of this post. Sadly, I think that if OP's DW wanted to listen, she would have done so already.
I hope I'm wrong.

Good post. Professional help is needed, not an appeal to DW's better .

Could you try practical solutions e.g. laundry seems to be an issue. If putting clothes away is something the family can't do (which I think may be an adhd trait), would they cope better with an open clothes rail in their bedrooms. Whoever does the ironing hangs it straight up. Perhaps baskets underneath for underwear/socks/pjs. Open boxes that toys can be tossed into to tidy away quickly.

Small changes to the routine -put school bags, water bottles, blazers by the front door before bed so they are ready to go in the morning

She sounds like a scruffy cow. I have adhd and it’s not an excuse to live in squalor.

Sounds a bit like DH and me except that DH isn’t a fuckwit and accepts that’s who I am.

He does get frustrated by my untidiness and I do try to be tidier but once it gets too much, it easily overwhelms me and then I can’t do anything. Luckily, DH will step in at some point and help.

However, I’m better at certain tasks and do all the hoovering, driving, cooking, dealing with technology and most of the DIY/plumbing etc.

Opposites attract and you need to find a way to balance your frustrations. If you’re a teacher, why are you unable to help parent your children, inc. the one with undiagnosed autistic traits?

I have sympathy for you. It sounds extremely stressful - my blood pressure was rising just reading it.

Are the wardrobes and cupboards tidy, and is there a clear, designated space for everything? I ask because my 18-year old son's bedroom routinely ends up with clean ironed clothes all over it because he can't fit them in his wardrobe and drawers any more, because things that no longer fit are in there and he's stuffed clothes in so using the space inefficiently. I help him have a reset twice a year.

And I feel that's what's going to have to happen at your house, led by you, if you want the marriage to work. A top to bottom deep declutter with some serious organisational systems built into it so putting things away is as easy as leaving them out. If your wife is a good wife and mother in every other regard and you don't want to leave her, you unfortunately need to help her, because whether it's through laziness, lack of time, lack of care or a neurodivergence, she's been like this your whole life and isn't going to change on her own.

I know you've put things in bin bags and threatened them, but you need to do the actual sorting with them. The creating of space, the designated place for shoes, the water bottle cull, the box with clean uniform in for the next day... (Side note, the way you do half the uniform each is weird - one of you needs to take responsibility for all of it).

I am not naturally a tidy person, I have ADHD, if there's an iota of chaos anywhere I lean into it, if there's even the slightest barrier or bit of friction to doing the right thing I will do the lazy thing, so I surround myself with systems and labelled spaces, everything has a home, and now I get a bit twitchy if things aren't in their home. My ex-husband wouldn't recognise me, living with me now - our home was never anywhere near as bad as yours, but of the two of us, he was the driving force behind the systems, and now I'm over here buying dispensing systems for cling film and tin foil and co-ordinating the rotation of winter and summer shoes in our shoe box.

People can change, but you might need to give her a push. Once things are more organised, the children can go down and make themselves cereal, and be pushed to get themselves dressed. Good luck.

There's a difference between "won't" and "can't". Parts of my house are very messy, though it's getting better. It's not that I won't tidy and declutter them. It's that I can't presently see a way to do it that is manageable to me.

Someone saying "This house is a disgrace, you need to sort it out" is not constructive or helpful to me. Someone saying "Let's go through a couple of the kids' drawers and bag up stuff that's too small and take it to the charity shop when we go out" is helpful and constructive.

And then when we've done one drawer, the next one becomes easier. And then suddenly all the clothes fit in the drawers. So there's actually somewhere to put the clean laundry and we no longer have overflowing drawers. And with the laundry put away, I now have energy to tackle the piles of paper building up in the kitchen. And you know what's really useful with that? If someone locates the shredder and collects all the random papers and puts them next to the filing cabinet. And we sit down together and work our way through the papers, filing and shredding...

I find it's about creating positive rather than negative spirals. But sometimes you need a little external push from someone else.

Strangely it's easier to sort other people's mess out than your own often.

Your DW sounds a lot like my friend (the soup!) who had an ADHD diagnosis in her 40s. Their house has always been chaotic but full of love. You'd go for dinner and she would have started making the pudding at 3pm, got distracted, and not returned to tbe main course until 8pm. We all love her as she is, but I do quite often find myself cleaning the kitchen for her (as do other friends!).

I get that it must also be stressful for you if you yearn for tidiness and order but you also sound very rigid in your approach. Could you try couples therapy? Hire a professional declutterer? At the very least you could read up on ADHD and see if it sounds familiar and what you can do to support your wife. I hope you find a way forward. Good luck.

I just read that she came home and made 12 litres of vegetable soup and I'm like, 'Am I your wife?'. I second the advice to consider that she might have ADHD.

What if you all agreed to try an experiment for six weeks or so where you pack up most of your stuff in boxes and just leave a 'cosy minimalism' amount out? So 2 water bottles each, 7-10 days worth of clothes, 2 coffee mugs each, minimal dishes, a few tubs of toys etc. Then you can see if living with less stuff might be less stressful for everyone. Less stuff would also make hiring a cleaner more feasible.

In my experience kids are calmer in a less cluttered and less rushed household.

Also, it does sound like you might be a ND household.

Could you agree to sit down once a week to talk about what is bothering you both and really listen to each other without the kids present?
This.
You say you do identical jobs. Bring the skills from your professional lives to your home life. Presumably you have meetings, plan workloads, work to budgets, debrief etc?

(We used this approach for what was a second marriage for each of us, following bereavements. It was clear early on that our different ways of doing things were problematic. We began very formally, with agendas, action points, etc; but the rules were that we had to remain calm, polite and objective. It worked for us. I learned skills of organisation from him. He took on areas I can't manage, and vice versa. It helped both of us love and trust each other even more, and gave us a very happy marriage. You've no idea how much I miss him. Good luck!)

This.

research it. It made my life living with AdHD relatives much easier to navigate