Is my partner lying to me and potentially cheating?

[JanetCompost]

So this is an odd one, but I think my partner has been cheating lately. Every time he tells me a story it's flawed and makes no sense.

There are many stories but the most recent one I'll start with. He claims he went out for food with a work colleague at The Railway pub in Streatham.

He showed me a photo, nothing suspicious here. Then I checked the menu, the dish he is eating isn't even from the Railway menu, and the table is different in the photos.

Also the plates don't match social media.

I know this is petty but I have many more examples, I'm wondering if I'm losing my mind here. Signed up for second thoughts as I don't know where to turn

But was there a dish with pecan nuts on the menu?

My last relationship had me spiralling when I could see obvious lies of what he has been doing or where he been, and things that clearly didn't add up. It damages your mental health, you end up looking for the lie behind everything cos you know you can't trust their word. My extent to investigation was for example he told me he had just got to a place 5 min after I knew it was closing. Thought maybe he had been in and got his stuff and had messaged me that he had got there as he was leaving not when he had arrived. Thouht no more of it and went out to visit family. But then 1.5 hours later he tells me he was just leaving that place. Thought he can't be as I'm sure it closed back then. Investigation begins Google opening times called him out asking where he really been. He said he was actually at a place near wandering around as wanted to get out of the house. Stupidly stayed with him after that, there was obviously a reason why he had lied to me.

Your Christmas investigation though is a whole other level. If I found a partner had created some detective style timeline on my whereabouts, I would leave right then and never return. The time, effort and fixation that goes in to creating something like that is extreme. Can only assume that this is due to finding lie after lie and it has took you on that crazy path I started walking on, but you have stayed on it, and I can't imagine the level of damage this has caused now. Your head must be a wreck, full of anxiety and working overtime. How much of your life is enjoyment at this point? Get out now OP for both your sakes. You will never find peace in this relationship. Your head needs a break and you need space to work on yourself to get back to a sane place. You can't do that while your stuck in a place of never knowing what is reality or not

When someone completely distorts your lived reality, you have no idea what it does to you.

Imagine someone telling you they were going to France. But packs stuff slightly out of season. Leaves and is sending you pictures of France. Telling you what the weather is like in France. Then you call them and hear people speaking Japanese in the background, and a tannoy announcement in Japanese. "Are you in Japan?" you ask. "No, you weirdo, I told you, France."

The packing the wrong wardrobe got your senses up. And now you've heard with your own ears, which you trust, that the person appears to be in Japan. So, you check flight times for when they claimed to be flying to France. And they don't quite tally. So now you pretty much know they aren't there, because they packed for a different country, a very different language has been heard twice in the background, and the flight doesn't seem to exist. But when you say "You aren't in France, are you, your flight timings don't add up" you are told "Are you for fucking real? You're stalking my flights? You've got problems. How many times? I'm in France."

So now you are 99% certain they aren't, but you're pregnant and you don't want to lose the relationship when there's a tiny chance you're wrong. But you can't ask them, they'll say France and get angrier and angrier with you for even questioning. So you think of ways to prove or disprove their story without having to ask them. Transactions, receipts, timetables. Anything concrete and third party. Because there's a lot to lose if you're wrong. And you can't believe anyone would lie at this extremity, not when they say they love you. Did you even hear Japanese? There's no recording. It's just trusting your own ears. But are you sure it was Japanese you heard. Do you really trust your stupid ears over him, who must know where he is.

You don't even know it's abuse, you don't recognise what they've turned you in too. You become neurotic and in a permanent state of fog, not knowing what's real. People need to back the fuck off OP and support her.

She's no "psycho". She's being abused. And you have no damn idea what it's like until you do.

You get it.
I was in such a relationship, thanks god I was not pregnant and we had not been together for too long but what you describe so well is exactly how it is. I had no idea people could lie on such an advanced level and the psychological impact it has on you. It put me in a constant state of anxiety.
And the problem is that you don't want to dump what seems like an affectionate and good partner for no reason. But the inconsistencies keep coming. And when you bring them up there is always an explanation and the guy acts hurt that you don't trust him. I had mine shed real tears and I felt guilty of course, and blamed myself for being so suspicious. But then another inconsistency showed up. I wanted to believe him but the lies simply kept coming.
In the end for my mental sanity I had to know so I started snooping and what I discovered was worse than I could imagine. This was a man who was busy in a prestigious job so whenever he said he was tired I thought it was because he had a lot of work. Turned out that apart from his job he was seeing not one but several other women. No wonder he was tired. All while seeming truly in love with me. When you've met your share of wishy-washy commitment phobics and all of a sudden there is this charming man who really seems to be into you, has no problem expressing his feelings, gives you presents, treats you like a real gentleman you think "Finally! He exists!" Well he clearly had so much love to give that one woman was not enough.
It happened 16 years ago and in hindsight I think there were probably a lot more lies than I even realized when I walked out of that relationship.
Someone once told me something that I found applicable: "Only a thief thinks someone will steal from him." Meaning that if you are not like that yourself, you just cannot imagine that someone will betray you like that.

@FortnumsWeddingBreakfastTeaPlease Imagine someone telling you they were going to France. But packs stuff slightly out of season. Leaves and is sending you pictures of France. Telling you what the weather is like in France. Then you call them and hear people speaking Japanese in the background, and a tannoy announcement in Japanese. "Are you in Japan?" you ask. "No, you weirdo, I told you, France."

This is also somewhat self-inflicted. DH could tell me he is going to Siberia but be packing swimmers and a beach towel. I wouldn’t know as I’m not suspicious enough to watch him pack, I genuinely have no idea what he takes if he goes on trips. Similarly, I don’t stalk him by calling him at the airport. Why would you want to call someone when you know they are at an airport? I’d be really perplexed if DH called me at the airport. If one of us goes away we just send a quick message, often literally 2 words ‘arrived safe’ once we have settled in at hotel at other end. Sometimes that can be a few days if connecting flights and stopovers involved. Sometimes we even send a long message ‘arrived safe, hotel better than expected’😁.

Where this is all going wrong is from the beginning. If you trust someone then no need to do side eyes over their packing or ring them at airports, then there can’t be a slide into gaslighting. If you even start in that slippery slope it should be over.

As for the ‘you don’t want to lose the relationship’, that’s where it’s gone wrong also. You should always be prepared to lose a relationship from day 1 onwards if the alternative is any form of abuse or losing your sanity! I have been married coming up to 3 decades. I’d walk tomorrow if I felt the need to be looking at what’s packed into suitcases or running him at airports, and I would have been prepared to do so any day from day 1 onwards. Being in a relationship you feel you have to cling onto would be really dangerous for so many reasons.

It could be he is making her crazy. It could be she’s just a little crazy as is. It really depends on the details of what’s going on and op hasn’t been back to share.

Ok thank you but how so many different plates? Could I by any chance hire you to go back and take menu photos? He claims he went on a Saturday but those dishes aren't on any menu I can find. I just need to know if those dishes are even available, that's enough for me to confront him

Omgggg you need professional help, but not a personal investigator

Could have been the specials and on board or temporary menu.

Jesus christ no, just stop and reread what you have just written. Imagine confronting him because you paid a random to go to a restaurant and take picture of plates. He'd walk out the door because he'd think you are a lunatic. We've all done crazy things, but you don't have to do this crazy one. Save yourself the mortification.

Although my dark side really wants you to do it and report back what happens 😬

Wow . Are you serious op? Crazy behaviour

OP I don’t think this thread will be doing you any good.
You wanted reassurance that your ‘evidence’ meant that you can get an ‘answer’ to living in a sliding doors and shifting sands situation.
Nobody knows the answer to any of this except your partner, but all we have become is an echo chamber of the conflicting messages you are receiving from your lived reality: “Everything is ok really and you are just being paranoid and he is a victim of your stalking”
versus:
“Why is he being vague and saying things/ recounting his activities in ways which don’t add up? Why is he lying? Is he even lying or am I paranoid?”
Either way, this is spiralling you down a very painful and confusing hole resulting in real damage to your mental health.
Your mental health and getting support should be the focus. We are describing the water to a drowning woman, she needs some lifelines.
The thread has divided into these two camps, which only serve to mirror the nagging doubts you are trying to quieten in your own head which caused this in the first place.
“He’s cheating/ she’s an abuse victim” or “No, she’s clearly an unhinged stalker” are the two things OP fears most. Her cognitive dissonance, for whatever reason, is off the chart and has left her struggling badly and doing things none of us ever think we would do but in her circumstances we probably would. These behaviours don’t just blow up to this level overnight, it will have been incremental over time, whatever the source or catalyst was.
Whichever is true, the clearest thing of all is that she needs support with her mental health at this point.
With only your best interests at heart I think you need to find some counselling support and to have a long, honest conversation with your partner about your fears and why you suspect him of infidelity.
When you have his answer you either believe him or you don’t. If you don’t, then there is no point carrying on with the relationship, because you will sentence yourself to a life of anxiety and detective work which will end the relationship one way or another anyway.
For whatever reason, trust left the building in this relationship a long time ago and feeling like this is no way to live.
If you have got to the point where only him providing a forensically accurate account of his every move he makes will satisfy you going forward, then this relationship has become toxic for both of you, whether he is abusing you or you are trying to control him.
Have you explored the possibility of relationship OCD? ROCD is a real condition and behaviour like this is common within it.
I really don’t like suggesting this in case you are actually a victim of abuse, but in the absence of abuse, I would look into this instead.
Either way, with no honest communication, you need to get out of this relationship as soon as you can and have some counselling support.
OP’s holy grail quest here is to answer that question, Is he lying or am I stalking a faithful man? which only he can.
Arguing about whether or not he is an abuser or whether OP is stalking an innocent man only adds more fuel to OP’s already raging fire.
Please get some support OP, confide in a trusted family member or friend if you can, don’t be alone in your head with it any more.
Imagine a life where you woke up in the morning free from doubt, suspicion and questioning yourself, him and the whole toxic circus your life appears to be. Imagine a morning where the only question in your head is “What shall I have for breakfast before work?”
That should actually be pretty much the only thing you need to ask yourself when you wake up in the morning in a healthy relationship.

Please OP go to a doctor. You're in the midst of a mental health crisis. It's highly unlikely that it's just people on Mumsnet that have noticed this - surely all the people in your life are urging you to do the same

OP what do you do for work?? You're very skilled at research!

@JanetCompost please read my post, I can see that you are struggling today.
You are never going to get a definitive answer to this, there are too many plausible variables.
The kindest thing you can do is stop, take a deep breath, remember who you were before you met this man and in previous relationships, and ask yourself this question:

”What has got me to this point in this relationship?”

Yes, exactly this! Most restaurants that actually cook (not microwave) have specials, day menus. Their menus on websites are usually just a sample of what to expect

I've read what the OP says, yes.

What an odd and also unkind reaction. But ok you could show off how much trust there is between you and your partner.
The problem is apparently that you should just trust your partner and not watch him when he packs.
Well that's in general how a relationship starts. You trust and don't feel the need to check the smallest details of what he does.
But when things don't add up you don't look for them, they present themselves to you. So you start to pay attention. And if it was just a coincidence there wouldn't be more reason to become suspicious and your worries would go away.

.

The people suggesting OP’s boyfriend may be having an affair are doing her no favours. It is clear from looking at her ‘evidence map’ that she has gone very far down a hole of paranoia and worrying behaviour. Her boyfriend’s behaviour is not the issue. It is possible that she may urgently need medical help.

OP, the more you say the clearer it becomes that you need to end this relationship and seek help. Take the evidence map to your GP perhaps and say you are worried something is going wrong in terms of how you engage with stress. Talk to a trusted person- a sensible parent, or sibling, or friend. Ask what sort of help they think you need.

Incidentally, some women are unfaithful. It happens. When they are, that is NOT a justification for obsessive stalker like behaviour on the part of the betrayed man. When a man behaves like that it is a sign of real mental health problems and has in many cases led to acts of violence against women. The OP needs help before her behaviour escalates.

Jesus Christ. Just ring the pub and ask.

OP, with the gentlest of words, you need help. This isn't normal.

I've been paranoid in the past. Insanely paranoid. But never to this level. Please, please leave this relationship and get some help for yourself

Bloody hell @JanetComposthave you thought of working for MI5 ? You are scary.
Partner goes on works Christmas do , probably a bit pissed , probably can’t remember exact times and details , you’re giving him the Spanish Inquisition.

What a vile post, and I see I'm not the only person calling that out.

Big hand clap to you for "not putting yourself in a position to be gaslit." So essentially, your husband could be cheating, but clever you chooses to never look at, or question anything your husband does.

It's "self inflicted" when you are emotionally abused and gaslit, if you happen to see something that doesn't add up. Super victim blaming there.

This is really sick behavior. Youre asking to pay people on the Internet to look at a restaurant's plates. You need to step away from this relationship and get some serious help.

I dont know about anyone else, but if I found out my other half was putting diagrams together like this and offering money to strangers to check up on me, i would be concerned for my safety and potentially logging with the police.