Massive row with DH in front of kids - Where do I go from here?

[Fernfaun]

I’ll be objective as possible as I’d like accurate feedback. My DH stays up late, usually playing online chess. Fine. His free time. Normally helps around the house with DC1 who is 2.5yo. We also have 4m old. Last night I woke up x4 times to feed my EBF baby. I struggled to sleep as I have a cold. I went downstairs at 7am to find nothing done - DC1 still in pjs (needs a change of clothes for nursery), no dog food done etc. so DH goes up to take a shower etc and I approach him and ask him why nothing was done. He tells
me because he was up at 5:30am with DC1. I ask so what? So in 1.5hrs, he’s just stayed with DC the whole time and did nothing else, just because he woke up early? And he said yes, it’s because he woke him up early meanwhile telling me to F off. I got really angry at this point and grabbed his toothbrush and smashed it on the floor. It broke. He then made a big deal about it, calling me unstable and saying that all I have to do all day is stay at home with a baby whereas he has to go to work. I was just too overwhelmed and started crying. He also hit me with his towel and I pushed him. Meanwhile DC1 crawls up the stairs and comes smiling at us. I felt so bad. I still feel bad for Dc1 and I just cry. DH left yelling ‘I hope you’re proud of what you did’ like all of this is my fault. I couldn’t care less about his toothbrush. I am just unwell, sleep deprived and just knee deep in motherhood. He thinks a baby is a walk in the park compared to a toddler but it’s still hard work.

anyway, I’d like to focus on what to do next. Should I leave the house? Where do I go? Do I take both DCs or would that be too disruptive for the toddler? I have no family close by, just friends. Also financially dependent on DH right now as I am on mat leave.

or should I stay and do less around the house? I am thinking I can’t be bothered to cook for him/us tonight. I’ll just look after DCs but I also can’t stand the sight of him and don’t want to sleep in the same bed/room…. But I have baby next to me so I can’t leave 😔 I feel so despondent. Im in an ALDI carpark typing this and sobbing my heart out while DC2 naps.

I think you need to cut yourself, your husband and your toddler some slack. Routines are great, but with a young baby and when you’re poorly and so sleep deprived, sometimes it’s best to just go with the flow.
Husbands never do things the way us mums do, and to learn that this is ok will help. It’s “dad’s way”. And when kids are older they laugh about how dad didn’t butter the toast as good as mum or mum didn’t read the bedtime stories as fun as dad did. Let dad do his mornings as he wishes, as long as he knows what needs to be done that morning leave him to do it. The world won’t end if he doesn’t do it exactly as you would.
We cannot control everything, and trying to just causes resentment and stress.

Your husband probably stays up playing chess to relieve some stress, working, providing for the family, helping at home and having a new baby will have taken a toll on him too.

Now baby is 4 months old could you consider expressing some milk so that when your husband is up he could feed the baby, or night feeds can be shared when he doesn’t have work early the following day?

Try not to feel guilty about what your child saw, they are very young and will not remember it for much longer.

If you can find some time to yourself to wind down and relax please do, a long soak in the bath, reading a book, a face mask, a walk, whatever will help you feel more like you again. It’s so important to take care of ourselves, especially when we are always so busy taking care of everyone else.

Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. It was early morning after a bad night, it is no big deal really even though it seems like it in your head.

It would be seen as abusive if the man 'needed to throw something' due to being in a rage - indeed throwing or braking things is considered violence.

It is not ok or just brushed of because you are a woman

Goodness I think if you'd spent the night with us when our baby was 4 months you'd have trashed the whole bathroom...and we didn't have a toddler at the same time!

What time does DS leave for nursery? I don't think DD has ever been ready to go anywhere at 7am. 😂And I can't remember the last time I was asleep before midnight so 11pm sounds early to me.

Honestly it sounds like you're both just exhausted and perhaps putting too much pressure on yourselves and each other. Playing chess until 11pm is hardly living the party bachelor life and not being dressed by 7am is not excessively slovenly. It's not a competition about who is the most tired.

Leaving over a silly argument is massively OTT. We're not in the habit of big blow out arguments but on the rare occasions that stress has got the better of us and we've got to the point of raised voices, we just both cool off and then have a hug.

@Pigeonenglish yes he was also dismissing my cold… you should see him when HE has a cold 😅

This too will pass. Honestly OP, one day you’ll laugh about it.

You’re in the thick of it now and you need to stop creating imaginary deadlines which add to the stress. It doesn’t matter if you don’t get toddler to nursery on time, or if the dog gets fed a bit late, or you don’t do the full shop today. You’re putting too much pressure on yourself unnecessarily - let it go. Especially if you’re under the weather.

Talk to DH ( you could both do with apologising and looking at the other PoV). Nap with the baby when toddler is out. Ask for things that would help rather than nagging. Stop responding with such anger - walk away and take a breath.

He didn’t belittle you, he was pissed off that he’d been awake since 5.30 and the first thing you did was come downstairs and complain that he’d not done enough. Then you followed him upstairs and smashed his stuff and hit him. There’s just no excuse for behaviour like that.

I’m not excusing him either, he shouldn’t be swearing at you or hitting you with a towel. You both behaved abusively towards each other.

Regarding the nursery run and the food shop - neither was urgent time-wise if you’re on maternity leave, and it certainly didn’t warrant all this stress and fighting. You could have dropped DS off anytime and done the shop online. Your DH had to go to work.

The jobs you expected to be done - getting clothes on the 2.5 year old for nursery and putting food in a bowl for the dog seem very minor jobs that don’t take very long. I question why by 7am he needed to have done those things already? Nursery surely opens earliest 7:30 so no need to have your toddler dressed ages in advance (I usually dress mine last so the clothes stay clean!) and the dog wasn’t left without food all day or whatever.

I think this just got blown up because you’re both tired and resentful - he did still get up at 5:30am with your toddler before he’s due at work and knowing he’s already tired and has a day at work ahead of him is likely as stressful for him as you knowing you’ve got a baby to look after when you’ve had equally little sleep.

Just talk about your expectations of the morning routine and try and be understanding

Needing to break something is really not normal or healthy behaviour OP, no matter what it is. A man posting about this “need” would be told it is abusive.

Okay but isn't he allowed to show the same frustration and maybe feel dismissed because of what HE does?

Up with the child in the morning at 5am but still has to put in a full days shift at work. Maybe in that moment he felt totally unappreciated too.

Works both ways. Both are exhausted, frustrated, and both have busy, tiring days. Both should respect one another and the role they play in keeping things going.

Well, what he did was nothing, so no, he doesn’t to be honest.

It would probably have been different if he’d said ‘look, fair point, I should have got DS breakfast but I was just really tired and zoned out. I know you do loads and I’m sorry.’

OK, maybe that’s idealistic and not realistic but it would have stopped things escalating. People are allowed to get things wrong, but then defending getting them wrong by putting someone else down (all you do is …) is very wrong IMO.

I thought this, it really isn’t the defence for your behaviour that you think it is op! It’s unsurprising you’re both tired and short fused but escalating it to smashing things and physically lashing out ag each other is very concerning. It seems a lot of people think this is within the realms of normality but I don’t think so.

I know it’s hard right now and you are both tired but throwing and breaking things unacceptable. It’s violence not passion.

Please stop and think about your behaviour and your reaction to be being “dismissed”

Work together on a morning timescale. Morning is the hardest time of day with little kids. A routine and clear expectations help everyone

saying that all I have to do all day is stay at home with a baby whereas he has to go to work.

He's a cunt, then.

I'm actually really surprised by some of these comments...yes 7am is early for a toddler to be dressed but if they'd been up since 5.30 there was plenty of time for OP's DH to just do it? It's just a small job that would have helped OP out when she took over juggling everything.

Even though she'd had an hour and a half extra in bed, she's also been up all through the night with the baby, which her DH hadn't, and she is feeling rough? And was about to be left with a small baby and toddler all day, so no chance for a break. He had probably been sat watching cbeebies for an hour 😂

I know it's shit to get up at the crack of dawn with a toddler, I am there myself, but I would still have got them dressed to help out if I knew I was going to be getting ready and then off to work while my DH juggled a baby, toddler, feeding the dog, getting toddler to nursery...etc.

That said, obviously both could have behaved better and they are both clearly knackered. Just needs a conversation to let the other know how they're feeling before it escalates.

I think you need to try to pick apart why it set you off that DC1 wasn't dressed and the dog wasn't fed.

Was it because he was about to get ready for work and mornings are really hard to juggle right now? Was it because you generally feel like he isn't pulling his weight? (You probably both feel like that right now.) Was it just because you were exhausted and in a bad mood and that's what you seized on?

The solution is different depending on the actual source of your emotions.

I also think you need to look at how you manage your emotions. You've said you're highly strung and you nag a lot. What does that look like? How often does that nagging boil over into unkind or unfair behaviour? Why do you nag? Are there clearly agreed, fair plans for who is doing what that he doesn't keep? Or has it never been clearly discussed, or is it stuff you want done, but he doesn't agree is important? Again, the solution is different depending on the root cause.

It also doesn't matter that you didn't mean to break his toothbrush. Throwing things in a temper is unacceptable, full stop. You need to own that, and figure out what you will work on to prevent it happening again.

He has some similar thinking to do around swearing at you and hitting you with a towel.

You both need to think about how to avoid escalating the situation if the other one is getting worked up – he swore, you threw, he hit you with a towel, you push him, it's all escalating. What will you both say or do that's a clear 'we're pausing this till we're calmer' at the first sign things are getting too heated?

You need to have more compassion for each other. You're both exhausted.

Don't do anything rash. Let the dust settle then make time to have a calm conversation. It sounds like you need to apologise, and so does he.

Yes, it’s objectively the hard times of marriage, with the little ones at this age where you both have to do your best to be forgiving and let things go.

Sorry OP I call time out on this point.

You don’t ever need to throw something. Ever. We all get you didn't target his toothbrush what isn’t okay is that you threw something. And seemingly followed your OH into the bathroom after throwing a tantrum.

As has been pointed out already, if a man tried to justify his behaviour by saying he 'needed to throw something' he'd be eviscerated by mumsnetters. Yet OP is mostly getting 'poor you, broken nights are awful aren't they?'

@Fernfaun you need anger management help. This is not remotely healthy behaviour, and quite honestly it's inexcusable. Your have to do something about this for your children's sake, if not for you husbands.

I repeat, I didn’t mean to break HIS toothbrush. I just needed to throw something at the time. If I wanted to get at him by breaking something of his it wouldn’t be his toothbrush

You don't seem to understand that it's not about whose toothbrush it was. It's the fact that smashing things in anger is violent and abusive behaviour. 'I saw red' and 'I was in a rage' do not in any way justify it. If you grew up around this kind of behaviour, maybe you don't realise what s huge red flag it is.

You just aren't quite grasping this. It doesn't matter whose toothbrush it was. You saw red, lost control and behaved violently having a bloody fight in front of your child. This is not OK! I'm all for hit back if someone else hits you but parents should not be resorting to fisticuffs in front of their tiny children!

Bringing kids up in an abusive home, and this is an abusive home if this is how you behave, is hugely damaging to those children.

Do you think it's OK for your child to see mummy screaming and throwing things because they weren't dressed? Daddy hitting mummy and mummy shoving him? Is this what you want to model for conflict resolution? Get a damn grip!

I remember very clearly that the lowest point in our relationship to date was when we had a 4 month old and 2 year old. I actually remember thinking at that point that we could never have a third as it would be the end our relationship. Neither of us are great without sleep. It's so hard, both of you are knackered, neither has much time to themselves. It's a constant competition of who has it hardest. My DH has always stayed up later than me. He has a stressful job and needs to decompress alone when kids aren't around. It's annoying when he's up late the next day but he does have other qualities. Does yours? I promise it will get so much easier.

We did go through a period of shouting at each other a couple of years later with a 2 and 4 year old, life was tough at the time for other reasons. We saw a private therapist- online in the evenings as we recognised it was a problem. It was expensive but it massively helped us communicate better. It's best to get therapy as soon as you recognise there is a problem, while you still love each other, before things escalate. Another thing I'd recommend is trying to get a date night in every few weeks. It might seem insane as you'll be awake all night with baby but even a couple of hours to the pub at the end of the road will help you remember what you saw in each other. Also, please look after yourself. No one will judge you for getting a takeaway when you're ill. Pizza and carrot sticks for the toddler done!

Do you love him? Does he love you?

If you do then all of this can be solved if you both want it to be. You're both stuck in the shit heap of parenting miniature, vulnerable narcissists who are completely lacking self help skills. They will grow up though! But right now you're doing it on hardly any sleep, limited finances with no village to support you. It's hard and stressful and you said neither of you was shown by your own parents how to disagree in a productive way

The moment when either one of you is angry is not a time to problem solve. Literally all that moment is good for is expressing that anger out loud. Nothing else that is good will happen in that moment. You can't fix anything. And it's most likely saying anything more is going to cause hurt and damage.
Imagine when you came downstairs and felt angry you had just said
"Dave I'm really angry with you because I'd imagined that you'd have x and y done by now."
And he said
"Oh ok Fern, we should talk about that. I don't want you to be angry"
Then you go do your own things, take some time to calm down in whatever way works for you and think about what you want to say. Remember that you love this person and you chose to be together and build a family together. And then at some point later when you both have the time, you talk about the trigger that caused the anger and that is the time to problem solve.

Do you have any way of regularly carving out some time together with out any distractions? Like 20 mins a few times a week just to talk. If you can have a chat about the things that you find difficult or irritating before they build up into massive resentments of each other you can avoid the trigger that causes the anger that might lead to the horrible argument.

The problem solving bit requires both of you to be curious and generous about the other person. You both need to accept that each of you has competing (often contradictory) priorities, emotions and thoughts about each single issue.
Your DH, for example might like playing chess because it makes him feel a sense of achievement he's lacking in his job. He resents having to work, but he knows he has to provide because he wants the best for you and the kids. He also feels guilty about playing chess because he knows he should be sleeping so that he can be less grumpy. But he's convinced himself that he can burn the candle at both ends. He knows that's a lie he's telling himself, but he'll often push that thought away.
Then you explain how you feel, all those conflicting thoughts you have. Then you try to find a way forward together that feels fair to both of you. A few weeks later, maybe the plan you thought would work isn't working so you talk about it again.

You get better at the problem solving without anger the more you do it. It is hard and an effort, so keep going back to "Do you love him? Does he love you?" That makes it worth the effort

@WalnutsAndFigs thank you. You have provided a good sense of clarity over the steps involved to prevent issues from escalating unnecessarily. I will try my best to implement a more conversational tone when something is bothering me. It’s funny I manage this at work really well. As in, I always manage to put my emotions aside and communicate in a constructive way. It’s harder with my DH though but it shouldn’t be. Yes we have evenings together every night now, as our littles ones started going to bed at the same time finally now that we dropped the toddler’s nap. It’s lovely to have this time back.