Just how much is a stay at home wife and mother worth in a divorce?

[JFDIYOLO]

Reading some stories today of women in middle age whose husbands suddenly announce they are divorcing them - and that because the wives never had a 'proper job' or brought in any income while creating their family and home life, they are not entitled to any financial settlement ...

I got to thinking just what jobs SAH women do in a marriage, and what it would cost their husbands to hire in those services, if they did not have that free labour under their roof?

These home roles spring to mind ...

Surrogacy / adoption costs and fees if applicable where you are
Nanny
Nurse
First aider
Childminder / babysitter
Chauffeur
Social secretary and kinkeeper
Medical secretary
PA
Housekeeper
Shopper and grocery delivery service
Cook
Scullery maid / pot washer
Waitress
Cleaner
Laundry and ironing service
Gardener
Dog walker / dog trainer / pet sitter
Mediator / negotiator
Teacher
Dressmaker
Interior designer / decorator

Just noticed many of these roles could come under Downton Abbey-type paid service jobs.

Then multiply that by the number of years of marriage, to arrive at a realistic sum for an invoice ...

In these divorce cases, might it be worth having this kind of calculation done as a matter of course?

What's missing?

It’s honestly pointless discussing this further. Of course 1 person cannot be in 2 places at once doing exactly the same amount of hands on care work. If you are out of the house working FT hours then you are not at exactly the same time doing the same level of care work that a mother with babies/toddlers or elderly dependents or both who are with her all day at home are doing.

Of course others still care, but for far, far less hands on hours. It’s madness to suggest it’s the same. Just like it is madness to suggest parents who use state schools do exactly the same job of educating their children as parents who home educate- of course they don’t. I use state schools, and would never dream of embarrassing myself trying to tell a home educating parent I do exactly the same as them- outright lying!

Even if you decided to be stay home and do not much and even if he does not give you much extra money so you can save it actually, you still get the freedom and peace of doing exactly you want in your own home, unless of course he is abusive and treat you like a slave. In a case of divorce you will get 50% at least but you will need a job to be able to become independent financial unit

We are doing it all with my husband....when we married, I had tiny savings but had some. He was the bill payer and then I had 1 baby. She had special health needs and I decided to be home stay and he said if I do not want to ever never ever work, that is fine with him. I was home stay for 8 years and that almost finished me off because I actually like city life, being out and about with a cup in hand ...the school gate was awful experience for me, ostracised for no reason, I volunteered in places and then restarted work on a part time basis. Upped my hours to 38 h sometimes because my husband works from home very often.

Our child had to be home educated and he does this, I go to work outside the home. Made more savings and share some with him when needed, he is happy to keep paying for it all. I don't spend my salary on absolutely nothing but child's clothes, holidays or house repairs. If he leaves me, I have at least money for a lawyer and half the equity ( if the place sells ) will be mine.

I think I have done it right and been through all stages and ages.

also half of my savings will be his, he knows this, this why he fully supports me working LOL. Not that he is going anywhere or me, but unfortunately life in the UK is very divorce oriented and the topic is everywhere so I got to get brazen talking about it

we have now a new mn classic saying: the two or more landscaped gardens of the Stay at home mothers

Wow, having properly cared for gardens has clearly touched a nerve with many! Well, make fun all you like- anyone who properly gardens understands the immense benefits of fresh air, exercise and being in nature to their physical and mental health.

I spent 2 hours this morning soaking up the sunshine and fresh air and thinking you could not offer me triple my old salary to go back to work! I detest being cooped up indoors. I’ve never felt better!

You make a very important point.

What is worthy of respect, and should be valued at a societal level is good parenting. Parenting which meets the physical, emotional and other needs of the child, which nurtures them and supports them to develop happily and healthily. And that can be done by SAH and WOH parents.

I respect parents who feed their children nutritious meals, read to them, nurture their curiosity, limit screen time, set appropriate boundaries. I know a lot of great parents who raise their children brilliantly. Most of them also work. Some of them SAH. The quality of their parenting is not dependent on whether they work or not.

conversely, there are poor parents who feed their kids processed crap, stick them in front of the tv too much etc. It simply doesn’t follow that if you’re a SAHP you’re going to automatically transform into this superior parent. Neither are you going to magically be better at ‘home making’.

It’s a valid choice to not work if you have a partner who agrees and is happy to support but its value is exactly that - something you and your partner want. There is no reason why society at a wider level should praise you simply because you stay at home.

Wondering if "Two Properly Thriving Landscaped Gardens" will go down in mumsnet folklore, like the massive salad or the roast chicken that feeds the 5000

I hope so
it soooo much part of the duties of looking after small children. Just spot on. 2 also, like what, front and back or one down and one up because as they are landscaped her property is on a hill or ....is this the neighbour's garden

It is part of the duties of looking after small children, who love gardening. Teaching children to respect nature, how to grow and nurture plants and their own food is a proper life skill, especially as the climate crisis worsens. Children need to be outdoors far more than they are, the stats on this are terrible in the UK, which worsens child mental health.

Sadly not everyone has a garden, but I know many locally in who make a massive effort to take their children to a plot in the local allotment and who help litter pick at our local parks.

I am extremely proud of how I look after my family’s things, it’s our home, our gardens, and anything that’s mine receives the very best care.

I would be extremely proud if it did. I would hate to have a neglected garden, it’s nothing to be proud of, I would be deeply ashamed.

Erm…. I also have a beautiful thriving garden… and a job too! My kids loved being outdoors, learning to sow seeds, grow veg etc and now they’re grown ups they enjoy looking after their own gardens. Oh and they have jobs too!

yet apparently having a lovely garden and a job are mutually exclusive… who knew?! 😂

My garden is georgous. Designed it and had it landscaped a couple of years ago. Spent 8months knee-deep in mud as I planted more than 500 plants and seedlings. Looked like the Somme for a bit (complete with WW1 guns and ammo discovered buried beneath the shed and the police having to come and ‘make safe’ the garden) but is now a veritable haven for pollinators and comfort animals alike. What I knew about gardening at the start wouldn’t have filled a postage stamp, but had to become an expert in acid soil gardens to keep the conmen gardening companies at bay. Still hate slugs, though…

They aren’t mutually exclusive, but you obviously have far more time to garden/clean/decorate and do DIY if you are in your home for more hours each week. Otherwise why are there so many threads on here with people feeling overwhelmed and begging for help and advice with managing their domestic load? It’s sad people are trying to do 2 full time jobs, I refuse and will only do 1, which is properly running my home. I’m a complete perfectionist and hate dividing my attention, doesn’t work for me.

As to the original OP, as a previous poster also mentioned, my estate agent has valued our home significantly higher than the rest of our close, mainly to do with, in his words, ‘the significantly higher decorative state of the whole house and condition of your gardens.’ I’ve stripped back and re-painted every window sill, scrubbed algae off fence panels and re-stained the entire lot, removed moss from every path and weeded every crack, painted the porch, ensured the fascias and soffits are clean and re-painted. That’s before you even get to all of the internal decorating I’ve personally done.

So yeah, for SAHWs this stuff is highly relevant in terms of properly understanding the monetary value of it in the divorce courts! You not only save a fortune doing it yourself but you also add literally tens of thousands of pounds to the value of your family home 👌🏻

It sounds incredible, the result of a great deal of commitment, hard work, learning, care and love. Amazing!

I’m glad I enjoyed my kids rather than giving my undivided attention to scrubbing algae off fences 🤣

Oh I enjoy my children, which is why I decided to spend their entire pre-school years with them and still do every school run, attend every school event, be available emotionally to chat through anything after school, etc.

I don’t agree with the concept of neglecting housework and gardening even when caring for young children. Once you get rid of being a capitalist wage slave the running of your own home and time with your children never suffer. Everyone in the household benefits from less stress and more peace, it’s brilliant!

Once you get rid of being a capitalist wage slave the running of your own home and time with your children never suffer. Everyone in the household benefits from less stress and more peace, it’s brilliant!

Do you consider your DH a capitalist wage slave?

Yes. I have a far greater degree of freedom and autonomy than he does. We certainly don’t want both of us being dictated to to the detriment of our children. My DH would never have me being in that position as a mother, he knows my presence is the best thing for his children 🥰

Oh sod off.

I’m amazed that you manage to get through the day what with you being so so busy looking after everyone and making them all so happy with your overwhelming caring.
Go you!

Waitress 😂 Are you suggesting that families with two working parents need to outsource this role and hire a live in waitress to serve them all their meals?
Look, I’m not disparaging the work SAHMs do, but it really doesn’t do you any favours listing waitress, scullery maid (wtf?) etc.

The thing is, as you've admitted, you can only stop being a "capitalist wage slave" if your dh becomes more of one.

My dh wouldn't want to spend all his time working and not lift a finger at home. He wants to have a balanced parenting relationship where he gets to do some of the pickups and drop offs, homework help etc.

In the black and white world you're describing, where working parents are necessarily absent from their kids' lives, are you OK with your children having an effectively absent father who has no presence in the home (or gardens)?

Or actually, was he not absent at all, because that narrative is nonsense?

Let me explain why we are amused about the two properly thriving landscaped gardens. While I'm working, you are gardening and scrubbing fences. The rest of the time, we both have enough time to be present for our children the rest of the time, just as your dh is/was.

Absolutely, it’s a full time job if you understand the full remit of responsibilities and basically do it properly!

He’s certainly not absent. He actually works in a job where he has longer periods of time off than most, but zero flexibility when at work. He could never do a school run despite wanting to, apart from rare occasions he is on an INSET day which differs to our children’s school. He is also not in a job where he can just drop everything if his children are ill. I wasn’t before either. We refuse to have both of us being made to feel guilty for being a parent and denied fulfilling our parental responsibilities entirely. Works for us. Great for you & yours if you both have jobs that allow all the bits around the school day. Plenty don’t.