Just how much is a stay at home wife and mother worth in a divorce?

[JFDIYOLO]

Reading some stories today of women in middle age whose husbands suddenly announce they are divorcing them - and that because the wives never had a 'proper job' or brought in any income while creating their family and home life, they are not entitled to any financial settlement ...

I got to thinking just what jobs SAH women do in a marriage, and what it would cost their husbands to hire in those services, if they did not have that free labour under their roof?

These home roles spring to mind ...

Surrogacy / adoption costs and fees if applicable where you are
Nanny
Nurse
First aider
Childminder / babysitter
Chauffeur
Social secretary and kinkeeper
Medical secretary
PA
Housekeeper
Shopper and grocery delivery service
Cook
Scullery maid / pot washer
Waitress
Cleaner
Laundry and ironing service
Gardener
Dog walker / dog trainer / pet sitter
Mediator / negotiator
Teacher
Dressmaker
Interior designer / decorator

Just noticed many of these roles could come under Downton Abbey-type paid service jobs.

Then multiply that by the number of years of marriage, to arrive at a realistic sum for an invoice ...

In these divorce cases, might it be worth having this kind of calculation done as a matter of course?

What's missing?

Unemployed

Waitress? You're reaching a bit here!

What's missing?

Common sense maybe.

I am currently a SAHM/carer for my dd, and I'm not a nurse, teacher, chauffer, mediator etc. That's pretty dramatic and all just falls under being a parent.

They should be getting at least 50% of assets from the marriage, and CM, but adding up wages of that extensive list of jobs is ridiculous.

That’s not how divorce works - women do get a financial settlement. Half of marital assets and sometimes spousal maintenance, regardless of what their financial contribution was to those assets.

You clearly don’t know much about family law because that isn’t the case at all.
both roles are seen as equal. The main disadvantage would be income going forward. Long term spousal maintenance is rare now, if any is awarded at all. So if women have taken a long career break or their earning capacity is diminished, that is where the disparity would lie. You can argue for increased capital to offset this ofc. But does depend on overall circumstances.

You do know that mothers with actual jobs also do most of the jobs on that list.

Divorce is more to do with splitting the assets in the marriage, than totting up what a sahm's labour would have cost to outsource 🤨.

Talking about mother's here, but the same applies to stay at home dad's

That's all nonsense but what isn't is that you have sacrificed your earning potential to allow the man to gain pension contributions.

If a man wanted children independently he would have to pay for childcare so he could work.

You've provided that free of charge.

because the wives never had a 'proper job' or brought in any income while creating their family and home life, they are not entitled to any financial settlement

That’s not the case at all. I have no idea why you’d think it is.

As to the list, it’s reminiscent of the thread where someone actually put sorting family photos down as a job that a SAHM does that ought to be given suitable admiration.

You imply a woman who has children does it for a man with no benefit to herself, which is daft. Would she not eat if she wasn’t married, wash clothes, make nice plans, book appointments? It’s absolutely laughable.

If the SAHM were to invoice for all that, then surely the husband would have to invoice her for rent/mortgage, utilities, food, clothing, holidays and entertainment for her & kids, transport, etc etc

That's all nonsense but what isn't is that you have sacrificed your earning potential to allow the man to gain pension contributions.

which is why it is right that those inflated pension contributions are a martial asset and split 50/50 upon divorce.

This thread won’t end well @JFDIYOLO , mn is notorious for hating SAHMs… it should be a struggle for everyone 🫠

All that I suppose on your list but then deduct the price / value of the following

no boss or management to report to
no responsibilities
no targets
no commute
no financial responsibility to be the main earner
being able to be present for your children guilt free

id value the above far more than a bit of”life admin” that the majority of working mums manage to do whilst also working full time

The massive point you're missing is that people with jobs get all of that done too.

Are you suggesting that most couples with two working parents hire all of the roles listed? If not, you've got to admit your list is bollocks.

SAHMs make a man's life much easier, and if it was mutually agreed, should be appropriately supported post divorce, but this is just silly.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/visualisations/dvc376/index.html www.ons.gov.uk/visualisations/dvc376/index.html]]]]

I just did mine and it comes to over £63k 😂

In divorce, all assets are seen as joint. A sahp doesn't have to 'prove' their contribution at all. No one is interested in what the cash value of ironing / laundry/ dog walking etc etc is.
A court will decide what is fair.
Working parents do everything on that list as well but wouldn't really think of it in terms of a 'sum for an invoice'. They are all just necessary tasks when running a family home.

Good list, you missed a few:

• External DIY/painting.
• Caring for elderly parents/ILs. Also cleaning and running their homes, preparing meals and drinks, providing conversation and company throughout the day whilst DH can’t at work, collecting prescriptions, keeping a close eye on and leading and co-ordinating all discussions and care between other carers/nurses/physios/hospital/etc.
• Helping on all school trips and at school events, being a parent governor who is actively involved (getting to know all parents through daily conversation).
• Purchasing, buying, wrapping and delivering all presents- some now outsource present wrapping/rely on Amazon.

Everyone does these things, not just stay at home mum's!!

Teacher, nurse?!

You must think that teachers and nurses have no training or qualifications.

It's actually an interesting point. When I became a single parent, my ex refused to pay so much as a red cent in child support. I was working FT.

I took out life insurance and worked out that if I got hit by a bus, the death benefit would have to yield well over £1M to replace my role.

Really? Both my SILs were at work/on holiday whilst I was busy caring for our FIL daily. A monthly visit is not the equivalent to hours of daily company and practical help.

A lot of those things are just different names for the same tasks.

And 'nurse'? Why in god's name would a woman who doesn't work but looks after the home need to possess the abilities of a medical professional?

Well, there are no qualifications required, no performance management, no professional standards that have to be met etc. So I guess you'd be looking at a minimum wage employee for half the week. (The other half would be covered by the mother's contribution). That would then need to be offset against the deductions made for her half of the rent, board, bills etc.

I reckon a 50/50 split is very fair in most cases.

And "waitress", I can't even...

There's a stereotype that kids of SAHMs are more likely to be entitled and expect to be waited on... I don't think that's generally true but it sounds like it applies here.

Who thinks of their mum as a waitress?!

Oh dear...who do you think does all these in other marriages where both work? If you think you're really qualified in all these areas go and get a job with those 'skills'

Only if both parties agree to it. What people often don't realise is that nobody is "entitled" to anything in divorce, it's done on a needs basis but if you don't agree with what your spouse is offering, the options are either accept a crappy settlement or risk an incredibly lengthy and expensive court process. My ex absolutely refused to transfer any of his pension. I wasn't strictly a sahp but my career had taken a massive back seat to his, and he had a pension pot 20 times bigger than mine. But he refused to split it on the basis that it was my choice not to have a better paying job (it wasn't). There was nothing I could do about it.