Estranged daughter

[Eleanorswindow]

I haven't seen or spoken to my DD for almost 2 years now and it's tearing me apart. She's in her 50's and menopausal (may be relevant) and we've always been extremely close so the hole in my life is immense.

It started with her saying she had MH issues and didn't feel up to seeing anyone, me included, and this went on for months although we still spoke on the phone daily. I started to suspect there was more to it from a couple of comments she made about my DH, her SF since she was 6yo, and eventually I asked her directly whether there was a problem with him.

She then revealed that he had always made her uncomfortable, had made comments about her body as a teenager and basically implied that he has an unhealthy interest in teenage girls. When pressed she couldn't come up with anything really concrete, just vague references to how he was around her when she was growing up. I do remember him commenting that she didn't get her boobs from me (hers are much bigger than mine ever were) and the like but I honestly never thought anything of it, he can be a bit socially inept and doesn't always seem to know where the line is but it never seemed that bad to me, just typical of men of our generation really.

I tried really hard to see her point of view but struggled to hear her talk about him like that, he's not perfect but he's not a bad man and I did say as much to her. She took this very badly, said I was minimising her experience and defending him and cut contact with me completely. I was very angry on DH's behalf when this first happened and very hurt that she seemed to be punishing me for something I didn't do so didn't try particularly hard to persuade her otherwise but I also thought maybe menopausal hormones were to blame for at least some of what was happening with her and that she would come round in time.

But that doesn't seem to be happening as the months are ticking by and the situation is beginning to feel permanent and irreparable. I'm devastated that we've ended up here but have no idea how to begin to fix it, she's been very clear that she doesn't want to hear from me. Is there anything I can do here or do I just have to accept that I've lost my DD forever? I miss her and my DGC so much and honestly can't believe any of this has happened, we were so close.

Your first mistake was not getting rid of your husband as soon as he said anything inappropriate to your CHILD! That comment was not be to be excused EVER. Your second mistake was not listening to your daughter no matter how difficult it was to hear. Your husband should be marched out the door and never able to come back. And I wouldn’t be letting you round my children either if you were my mother. You failed to safeguard your daughter as a child and I would not trust you to safeguard any other children. Get rid of your husband and beg for your daughter’s forgiveness and hear her full story. It’s f*ck all to do with her hormones.

I wonder if your daughter has a teenage daughter of her own now, perhaps, and it’s made her look at her past differently?

It’s quite rare for someone giving their side of things to seem at fault. I think that’s a credit to how honest you’ve been here - you say you remember his comment about her boobs (awful; inappropriate). That must make you wonder what you don’t remember?

Your post betrays a lot of internalised misogyny. You blame your daughter’s hormones and assume she’s being illogical, and defend your DH as the socially inept but harmless product of “his generation”. As others say, it’s clear she feels she can’t trust you and I understand why.

You failed to protect your daughter from this man when she was a child and you're refusing to listen to her now. She's been carrying this for decades, it must have taken a lot for her to tell you. And you just dismissed her.

If you want a relationship with her then you're going to have to face some uncomfortable truths.

If you want to rebuilt your relationship with your daughter there's 2 things you need to do. Firstly, ditch the pervy husband. Secondly, apologise sincerely for failing her as a child and as and adult.

If you aren't prepared to do those two then you've lost her for good.

do remember him commenting that she didn't get her boobs from me (hers are much bigger than mine ever were) and the like

The ONLY response should have been why are you looking at my daughter?

@LorrieTosh

Excellent post.

You let your daughter down, badly.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/4822811-what-the-fuck-am-i-going-to-do
As PP suggested maybe you need to read this.

You've prioritised a man over your DD that’s not even related to her. Imagine being a teen stuck with a pervy Pete and not being able to do a thing about it. I think she knew at the time you’d make excuses for him. I would go low contact too and this is why I won’t force an unrelated man on my DD.

Why do you think her being menopausal could be relevant? That feels a little ‘gaslighty’. It’s not easy to walk away from a parent. If feels like you’re not listening to her and she feels like there’s no point speaking to you. Edited to say … why did you struggle to hear her speak of him like that but you didn’t struggle to hear him speak about your daughter’s breasts? You and your ‘dear partner’ are the problem here and it’s so bad and I can’t believe you can’t see it.

You sound very much like my mum, who I have also been estranged from for 5 years. Very similar situation. My stepdad has also always made me uncomfortable. Actually he makes everyone feel uncomfortable, except her (she has poor boundaries, she couldn’t spot danger if it ran her over). He’s always saying inappropriate things. And doing inappropriate things.

It turns out, after some investigation on my part, that he was convicted of sexually abusing his daughter before he met my mum. My mum knew this. He told her on their first date. 😳 He admits he did it. She believes he did too, but thinks it’s no big deal. She doesn’t think he’d do it again because his attraction was only to his daughter 🤢 and not to children in general and that means my children are safe and so are other children.

After all this came to light and I confronted her for lying to me so he could get unsupervised access to my children, her reaction was anger. Anger that I couldn’t be forgiving, that I “didn’t have a good loving heart like she did” and couldn’t just overlook it. I disclosed my own experiences of sexual abuse as a child (not by my stepdad) and she was mostly annoyed because she found it all very unpleasant and inconvenient to have to talk about. Her focus was on me “making a big deal of things” and not being able to “just get over it.”

The thing was, it wasn’t actually about what my stepdad did. It was about how little she cared how it affected me that ended our relationship. Every conversation I tried to have with her about how distressing it was to me turned back on what a good man he was, how I just wasn’t kind enough to find forgiveness, how I am dramatic. Really it’s because deep down she is terrified of admitting what he’s done and what a mistake she’s made not protecting her child and her grandchildren. And I think probably forcing her to admit their relationship isn’t all it’s cracked up to be (it’s really unhealthy, men who have abusive relationships with children don’t have healthy relationships with their partners).

The damage to my relationship with my mum is now irreparable. I’ve offered many possible solutions to working on it and she has been willing to do none of them. My advice would be, if your daughter reaches out and asks something of you, take the risk of doing it. Mine was that my mum had some individual therapy and we did family therapy together to talk all this through. She absolutely will not, does not believe in therapy, will never admit these things have happened to anyone else.

Do not talk badly of her to others. My mum went around spreading all sorts of malicious rumours about Dh and I because she needed a way to explain the estrangement and why she no longer saw her grandchildren. It was easier to say we did horrible things to her than to have to tell everyone that her husband was a paedophile. But that eventually got back around to me and it was the final nail in the coffin. The only thing worse than your own mum not caring that you were sexually abused and that you don’t want a sexual abuser around your own children is her telling everyone you stole money from her and she had to cut you off because you were “beyond help”. 🙄

That and take accountability. Listen to her and believe her. I suspect she is trying to feel out your response to her telling you what really happened. I read somewhere recently that most women never tell another person about their abuse until they are in their 50s. I only ever was able to talk about it for the first time in my early 40s. Take responsibility for responding badly. Say I’m sorry. Be careful not to say I’m sorry but….My mum only does I’m sorry but. I’m sorry that happened to you, but maybe if you had told me sooner. I’m sorry you feel that way, but maybe you need to be more forgiving. I’m sorry that I wasn’t honest with you, but I knew you’d react like this. Just say I’m sorry and be accountable for your behaviour.

Repairing the relationship starts with you. You can work on yourself and change your life and behaviour regardless of whether she wants a relationship with you right now.

As a daughter who had an inappropriate stepdad I have never been able to confide in my DM. I love and trust her but she is a CSA survivor and what my SD did was very very similar to what you report your DD experiencing. I know he was wrong but I don't know if my DM and I could have a conversation about it, not her fault at all, but the circumstances are different to yours. If I had and she reacted the way you have I would be absolutely devastated.

Sadly this just about sums it up.
You weren't on the receiving end of your husbands comments your daughter was , she must have felt absolutely awful , threatened ,angry ,scared you name it ,in her own home .
Your husband is the cause it appears , i don't know how you can fix it , i know what i would do /would have done.
I hope you can both heal .

Exactly my thoughts. She wanted to tell you more but couldn’t.

This ^

Write and apologise. Say you’re truly sorry, you realise now that you minimised her feelings and experiences when it would have taken a lot of courage for to speak up. You deeply regret your defensiveness and wish you’d responded differently. You'd never had any suspicion of DHs strange behaviour and was horrified at the thought but now realise this was the wrong response. I should have talked things through properly and reflected on how I safeguarded you as a child.

I wish I was as brave as your daughter. You sound like my mum but I’d have to substitute SF for Uncle. She, like you, knew something went on but did nothing. I’m glad she’s found the strength to cut you off, hopefully she will inspire me to follow suit.

This 👍
You are only bothered now because it affects you, you chose to ignore her to begin with to punish her and put her in her place.
Good for her for seeing who you are, you don't get to serve her children up to your creep husband.
Good god your nerve posting and whining about it is breathtaking.

Bloody hell @Ellie56that's clearly the other side. What an absolute creep, now starting on the granddaughter. And the OP is still defending him. Disgusting!

Leave your DD alone OP. You don't deserve to have her or your DGD in your life.

Yeah I can see why she's NC. Poor woman

You need to contact your daughter and apologise for dismissing her feelings and you need to ask if there is anything else her SF said or did that she was uncomfortable with.

Think about signs of potential abuse, has she ever left your grandchild alone in his care or been overly protective of your grandchild when her SF is around.

Not saying he’s done anything, his comments were disgusting to be honest. He should not have been looking at her chest when she was a child. You should not forgive that.

I'm your DD in this situation. My 'mother' defended her disgusting creep partner when he frequently commented on my body, my appearance, made assumptions about my sex life/preferences and sexually assaulted me. In fact, she was jealous of me as I was taking his attention away from her, as though I invited it!!

My 'mother' is incapable of self reflection, has zero capacity for self accountability, and I've never known her to apologise to anyone for anything. I have been NC for over a decade.

Your behaviour towards your daughter, as per the content of your opening post, was appalling. If you don't look within, and accept there is probably more to what she tried to tell you, then you will likely never see your daughter or grandchildren again. If you can live with that, you can stay in your bubble of denial about your husband. Alternatively, you can try to repair your relationship by writing an apology for minimising her, and for not allowing her a safe place to speak about past events and apologise for your failings as a mother.

OP I doubt you'll be posting on here again but I hope you get something useful from the thread.

A thought experiment: let's say that there was more that your daughter needed to tell you, but you shut her down all those years ago so she never did. It means you don't actually know what your husband did to her. Maybe he was "just" a creep, and you've shown that you can live with that. If it was something worse, do you yourself have a line in the sand? If he'd raped her as a teenager, would you feel the same way about him? Where would your loyalties lie then?

I think you have to understand on some level that your current line has been so deeply unacceptable to your daughter that she can no longer be around you. Instead of looking towards her reasoning, shouldn't you be looking at yourself - and, god knows, your husband?

No decent men of your generation would ever comment on their stepdaughters boobs.

It’s highly inappropriate and if you can’t see that you must be blind.

Whether you like it or not your H is a pervert. What else did he do to her or around her?

You’re blaming it on her being menopausal is frankly astonishing.

If you can’t wake up and smell the coffee, it would be very damaging for her to have any contact with you.

Yeah, I'm not surprised she has no contact with you.

I'm equally surprised it took her until her 50s. But glad she got there eventually.