SEPTEMBER 2025 - Well we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

I have now set up a new thread as the previous one is now full.
This long runnning thread has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.
The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!
One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;
'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'
Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.
Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.
NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.
You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.
'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.
I started with this book and found it really useful.
Here are some excerpts:
"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.
Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.
Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:
"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.
YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".
"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.
YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".
"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."
"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"
"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."
"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."
Helpful Websites
Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat for details.
Some books:
Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa
This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:
"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

I know it's not just that though, it's also getting past being concerned about whether it upsets mum if people think we're not a perfect family. At the moment my mind still keeps getting caught up feeling like the little girl who has to put herself last because something outside her control has upset mum and I shouldn't say anything to make it worse.

Awkward cow if you want you can still offer to help in an appropriate way. Let her get upset or whatever she's feeling. Don't tear down your own boundaries to appease her. Her emotions about not being able to get her own way are her responsibility to deal with. If she wails to you about whatever, you can point out that she does seem to have a lot of strong emotions all the time, then suggest she sees her doctor to check there's no depression or anything going on, or suggest she sees a therapist for help with her emotional reactions and feeling calmer. She won't like these suggestions because she doesn't want to take responsibility for herself, but if it means you can tell yourself you tried to help, it might make walking away easier

His unhinged argument is that DH and I both have school holidays off work - but no other time off- so didn't have to put our DC in holiday clubs which means it's unfair if he has to arrange and pay for holiday clubs for his child.

With this type of nonsense, I'd offer to chat with him about the education and training requirements necessary for him to get the same type of job as you, so he can have all the school holidays off too. Or offer the contact details of a good childminder/nursery your friend uses. Again, he won't like these suggestions for the same reason above, but it means that when he gets angry you can point out you've tried to help him and that he's only facing the exact same difficulties the majority of parents face, that they're not your children and you're not responsible for them.

It all comes from that situation where they think because you're related that they own you and are entitled to treat you however they want and entitled to whatever help they want from you. Then get angry when you act like the fully autonomous being that you are. I don't think they ever face reality that they don't own you. When they aren't asking for anything I firmly believe that they think they're doing you a favour in leaving you alone to live life however you want.

My ex used to say things like why was I annoyed, all puzzled because he "let me go out with my friends, have hobbies" etc. Wish I'd realised the red flag there, I used to just be equally as puzzled thinking how I don't need permission to do those things, so why is he acting like he's doing me a favour?

My narc parent never asks what's wrong either. Every text I've had this year has been trying to manipulate me into responding. Not a single one has asked if I'm ok, if I'm upset with them, can we talk, or anything like that. So far I'm finding NC easier than I thought it would be, because I refuse to be manipulated any more and that's all they want.

She never talks about it and if she does she blames everything on DF and makes out she had no options

More tea now even if that was true, she could still apologise for the situation of your childhood and show genuine regret for how it was for you. She doesn't because all she's thinking about is herself, not how you feel/felt.

@Moreteanow I don't imagine you believe the story about a 'mistake' with dementia diagnosis. But just in case you are persuaded to have any doubts, as someone going through the process of assessment with my mum I can tell you that it won't be true. Assuming you're in the UK, before anyone even mentions the possibility of a dementia diagnosis there is a very long process involving numerous referrals and tests to rule out all sorts of other possible explanations for symptoms. Unless someone has a form of dementia with very clear physical markers on CT scans etc, a dementia diagnosis seems to be what happens when all other possibilities have been ruled out. So incredibly unlikely that any doctor would say 'dementia' mistakenly.

No I don’t believe the story about the mistaken test. I didn’t really believe him when he mentioned it either.
I used to work with old people and many went on to develop dementia/alzheimers. It’s hard to tell whether his memory is going or whether he says things that are wrong so he can play at being forgetful/needing care

i wonder whether he’s jealous as FIL actually had Alzheimer’s and we‘ve been offering support.

Thank you. Yes that is true. I guess I still hope that maybe they have changed. I don’t see them often (every few months) and only for a 3-4 hour stints but this is a good reminder to keep my guard up.

i guess telling them FIL is unwell was a mistake. I did wonder as my DFs reaction was over the top concern for a man he usually pretends doesnt exist.

it felt fairly safe as he’s never showed interest in him.

I probably should go NC. I just dread the fall out, flying monkeys and drama that would cause.

You need to let go of all and any residual hope that they have changed. Such hope keeps you trapped. They have not fundamentally changed since your own childhood and they have learnt this works for them. They think they’ve done nothing wrong here. I would also consider dropping both the frequency of visits along with time spent there. It does your dc no favours for them to see you as their mother being disrespected.

If he can lie so casually about dementia to put the wind up you then what else can they lie about?. Do you really want to be around such people ?. Deal with any fog you have through therapy.

You will need to grieve for the relationship you should have had rather than the one you actually got.

You will also need to ignore the flying monkeys who would come your way. They are not interested in hearing your side of things and have their own agenda so their opinion should be ignored. As for any drama if you are NC you will be more unaware than you would be if you kept in contact. What is the point of being in contact with them?. Would you tolerate this from
a friend, unlikely and your parents are no different.

Sometimes the drama we imagine is worse than the drama we actually get. The exact amount of drama I received from either of my parents for NC and very LC has been zero. I was let go very, very easily. In the end I realised that although they lived rent free in my head and I spent enormous amounts of time worrying, fretting, trying to manage their behaviour, trying to be good and supportive, anxiously ruminating over imagined contact and how I would cope with it, that the reality is that I was on the periphery of their lives, and if you only see them every few months, then you are not a central part of their lives, you're a distant relative they see once in a blue moon and don't really know. You're not that big a deal. And NC doesn't need a big announcement or a big fuss, you just quietly let things drift.

As soon as they found out that I wasn't willing to be a support human they had no more use for me, because that's all the relationship was.

@Moreteanow It really does sound like going NC would be better for you. Your parents may try to make it difficult (like ccrazzysnakess says, it's difficult to predict their reaction) but you really can control whether and how much you communicate with them. As for flying monkeys- who are they likely to be and what do they add to your life? If it's just a collection of distant relatives and old friends of your parents who don't have any real connection to you, would it be a disaster if you refused to communicate with them too? I truly know it's not an easy of simple thing to do but it can be done. When I went NC with GB1, it was complicated because I didn't want to also go NC with our parents (in hindsight, probably a mistake) but even then the push back from flying monkeys etc was better than the damage that would have been done had I continued to be drawn in to his manipulation and drama.

@SamAndAnnie Your suggestion of signposting mum to help rather than being the help is essentially what I have been trying to move towards. It's difficult since I believe she now doesn't have the ability to organise things for herself. The trigger for the most recent bouts of aggression from GB2 is that I have refused to be on call for instant support 24/7 and essentially told them that if she really needs the level of help they are asking for then perhaps a care home is the answer. I no longer even engage in any discussion about GB2's increasingly bizarre demands for support for himself. It's strange you mention suggesting he look in to training for the same line of work as DH and I. GB2 has always had the opinion that everything we have comes easy (and not through planning and hard work), which is deeply unfair on him particularly since he is incredibly intelligent and knowledgeable and we are just idiots. A few years ago GB2 decided he would train to do the same job as DH as it is obviously money for old rope. He turned down DH's offer of tips on the application process or things to prepare before applying and basically told him he wouldn't be taking advice from someone he would be giving orders to in a couple of years. Most applicants do some relevant work experience, read up on topical issues, try to demonstrate an understanding of the role etc but I know he did none of this. He was very surprised when his 'inspiring' application was not successful and claims this shows unfairness in the system- which is another reason why we (having clearly benefited from the unfair system) should help him. For the last few Summers he has also argued that we should go on holiday with him and his family so that DH, I and our young adult DC can take it in turns at looking after his DC. It is deeply unfair that we are able to go on relaxing holidays/stay out late/eat late etc 'without a care in the world' whilst he and his DP have no break from childcare even on their holidays. At first I pointed out that this is how time works; when our DC were that age we had child-focussed holidays too. Now I just ignore him.

Thanks all. FIL passed away this week so that took a bit of focus away but I unpacked the dementia lie with my therapist yesterday.

i appreciate all your thoughts and encouragement for NC. I feel validated to know others can see how insane this behaviour is. I am unpicking all of this in therapy.

i know I need to do something about this but I don’t feel have the strength right now. It feels very lonely but I am working on it.

I was randomly scrolling right move today which I do regularly as I am nosy and saw dsis has listed her house for sale yesterday. I probably sound awful but can’t help but hope her financial recklessness over the years and bad decisions have finally caught up with her. Of course she could of won the lottery and that’s why she’s moving here hoping it’s far away from here which I doubt as she has to pretend to be the doting DD to dm in the care home as we are in the same small village 5 minutes walk away from each other at the moment I am really surprised we have never bumped into each in the few years we have been nc

Spendysis if your mother is in a care home and not coming out and also doesn't need to pay for her care so no need to sell assets, do you think your sister could be moving into your mum's house?

@Moreteanow If you feel lonely working out the right way to go for you, you can always post on here for moral support. I've found it really helps sometimes just to vent to people who understand.

@spendysis I'd also be wondering if there was something along the lines of what SamAndAnnie suggests. But I think years of dealing with my family means I am always looking for a hidden agenda- so hopefully not. I strongly suspect that a major factor in GB2's insistence that DM should never move in to a care home is a desire to have her house. He knows that currently her will leaves everything shared between us and a couple of other close relatives but I can't help wondering if his sudden desire to appear to look after her (whilst expecting me to do anything awkward or time consuming and criticising everything I do)/never ask any difficult questions/promise her anything she asks etc is a bid to show that he's the deserving one and the rest of us have all abandoned her. I'm trying not to get dragged in to it, but he is very annoyed that I won't kill myself to travel over multiple times every week to deal with issues that arise because she's not in suitable accommodation and they refuse to consider alternatives.

@SamAndAnniei can’t remember if ss said dm was nhs funded which i think means she pays for the care home and they pay the nursing bit or if she is chc in which case dm doesn’t pay so dsis may move into dm house which is local to me unfortunately

i know dsis main mortgage is interest only and she is relying on her inheritance to pay it off and when we were close a few years ago they were starting to hassle her about her plans to repay it so it maybe that

its nothing to do with me so i really shouldn’t be giving it any headspace but it doesn’t make sense her moving not that anything dsis does make any financial sense hence why we are in the situation we are in. She’s spent so much money usually getting into debt doing her house up constantly so it seems odd to sell it unless she has to financially or is moving out the area or in with a partner if she has one.

Dsis is moving into dm house i presume as she has been in her house 25 years in June it’s because her interest only mortgage needs paying back and she was relying on inheritance from dm who has thrown a spanner in the works by not dying quick enough
dsis has 2 other smaller repayment mortgages but may have a bit of equity left

what happens when dm dies depends if she is self funded or not and there is an equity release mortgage that dsis convinced her to take out that will need to be paid back the money I believe was used for dsis home improvements

if dsis ends up staying in dm house as I am led to believe she’s had dm cut me out the will I wonder who it will go to when dsis dies she has no dc and has cut contact with my dc maybe a charity or one of her friends

I’ve got no sympathy for dsis or even anger anymore this is her own doing her financial difficulties all self inflicted have been an issue all my adult life and she has destroyed our family mine and dc relationship with dm and family friends because of money and by looks of it she isn’t even going to end up with any money after all

I do wonder what tale she’s told her precious friends and selling up and moving into your dm house which is a very nice house worth more than mine and dsis but obviously not hers yet doesn’t fit with the highly successful independent woman image she has got into so much debt to maintain

@Spendysis It sounds like this will all come crashing down on your sister before long.

My parents also took out an equity release mortgage, largely to enable them to continue financial support for GB2 (although mum won't admit that's the reason- she claims it was for 'home improvements' but I'm not aware of anything ever being done on the house). I'm sure there are clauses in their documents about other adults living in the house. As I'm sure you know if the house needed to be sold to fund your mum's care or when she dies the loan will need to be repaid anyway so it sounds like your sister is just putting off facing the inevitable.
But as you say, it's not your problem. Having said that, I know it can be really difficult not to feel instinctively anxious about the stupid stuff our family members do- after decades of knowing we'll be expected to be involved in sorting out their mess I think we still get that sinking 'what next' feeling.
I fear GB2 is planning something similar. He only bought his first house a couple of years ago and has been complaining ever since that 'if I stop working I lose my house!!!' (as if the rest of us have our mortgages paid by magic). He's also been complaining that he 'needs' more space and garden for his child. DM is struggling to live alone but he has persuaded her that paid carers will be terrible and that any sort of care home/assisted living will be awful and she'll hate it. So I suspect his game plan is to move in with her and probably to stop work and let mum pay all the bills (he only got a steady job in his 40s and he's never liked the idea). God knows what his partner thinks about this. I'm also trying to remind myself that it's nothing to do with me and I don't have to sort out the mess that this would create. Unfortunately I anticipate that if/when this happens he will still expect me to do all mum's (and therefore his) household admin, manage her finances and organise/take her to all her medical appointments and assessments whilst he sits in front of the TV all day and tells everyone how hard it is to look after mum. Of course, I won't be doing that.

So the time for visit to DM is fast approaching. There has been pretty much radio silence since her rant and call about her 'weak turn'. Had one call since which she gave what for her is the nearest thing to an apology you are ever likely to get. She is queen of the non apology. Then having shoved me back into the box she pretty much all charm. She was put out the she had heard on the grapevine that DS1 had got engaged and he hadn't told her but I managed to shut that one down. I know that he deliberately didn't phone her because he heard from his siblings about DMs recent behavior. A
Anyway as I wrote we are due to visit next week and I am dreading it. I know how she'll behave at the party and after she will bitch horribly about many of the guests but to their faces she will be all charm. Ironically I tried talking to some of them about her last year (I had had a lot to drink at the time) but they just didn't get it, so I have to just deal with it in my usual way. The thing that's really exhausting is the constant digs and walking on eggshells in her DM's house There are so many unwritten rules (this was ever the case.) breaking them results in her being in a 'mood'. I don't know what I'm asking of everyone except that I just feel that I can't cope with her in the way I used to even with DH there to act as a shield. I suppose I'm just asking for help to add to my diminishing sack of 'grey rocks'.

First time posting here and I also posted elsewhere as I am not sure which thread is appropriate.

I am in my 40s and for the past few years I have had a memory pop up in my head. I know it's abuse and I know it definitely happened but I think my this memory for some reason. I can't share it with anyone as it sounds weird and I feel odd about telling anyone.

I have a brother who is 22 years older than me (same parents but they had him young and me on the older end). His children are close in age to me and as kids we spent a lot of time together. My brother would take me on family holidays etc. He would also bully me and call me names etc. It was a strange relationship were he would be very fun and caring but verbally abusive - the verbal abuse was all in the form of 'jokes' so if I got upset then the blame would be on me for not having a good sense of humour. He still does this, for example straight after I had a baby his favourite joke was how my kid looks nothing like his father. Not congratulations or hope you're all doing well but he did go to the effort to call.

I would often have a sleepover with my nieces who were slightly younger than me at my brothers' house which was a few hours drive from my parents. One time when I was there I was sleeping on the floor on a sleeping bag but I wasn't yet asleep and I was reading a book under the covers. It was quite late and I knew I should be asleep and my younger nieces were fast asleep in the same room on their beds. I heard someone coming up the stairs and the door open so I quickly hid the book under my pillow and pretended to sleep. I could tell it was my brother who walked in and thought he was probably popping in to the room to check if we were all asleep. He walked over past me and sat on the end of my nieces bed behind me and started stroking my bum over the covers. I remember feeling really weird and confused - I was around 11 or 12. I decided to stay very still and continue to pretend I was asleep and after a few minutes (I think it was a few minutes as I don't recall the details) he left the room.

This memory popped up out of the blue from no where a couple of years ago and it's made me wonder if it was a one of occurrence or if I have suppressed other memories. I have limited contact with my brother but he has a way of triangulating people around him - my mother, siblings and his children. I have reduced contact with most of my family, mostly to protect my children.
I don't really know how to process this memory. It's not affecting my day to day but all the recent Epstein stuff in the news and somehow the Prince Andrew stuff has been triggering.

My brother had an affair with a teenager when he was in his late 30s and was caught by his wife by private detective she had hired. I was a kid but I remember overhearing my parents talking about it and my eldest niece knew too. I have a feeling it may not have been a one off thing and as I have a teenage daughter now I intuitively have become very distant from family as she got closer to her teenage years. I don't understand (still) what my brother was doing that evening but I have this strong gut feeling to keep a distance.

Running

What happened to you re your brother was not your fault. From what you wrote of him he is a sexually abusive predator and master manipulator. Continue to stay well away from him as he remains a dangerous individual. You may want to contact NAPAC. Abuse thrives on secrecy and I would urge you to contact an organisation like NAPAC,

@AttilaTheMeerkat thanks, I will get in touch with NAPAC.

So it is 4am where I am and I have been awake an hour, the reason? Possibly going to see my mother tomorrow or momster as I refer to her.
Brief recap: Couple of years ago she went to my sons school and told them he was being neglected at home, usual trope, im an alcoholic/take drugs/addicted to prescription meds etc etc the usual shite all because her narcissistic injury made meant she needed to lash out at me. My crime? I had gone through a bad breakup and asked her to babysit my son one night while I had my friends over to my home for wine and support. Thats it basically she was annoyed because I had support. And loyal friends. So she went to the schooll with her lies and then social services had to be notified and honestly it was a horrible time.

Anyway fast forward I spoke at length with the school (secondary not primary and I knew the principal as I was on the board can you believe and she tried to discredit me to people who knew me but obv they have to report to SS which is fine I got a full file sent to me of what was said and it appears to have been the second time she did it, the first time I was stunned someone would have done this and went to my mother heartbroken crying etc and her response was to ask if I thought it had been my brother and sister in law who made the report all the while knowing it had been herself. Vile creature.

Anyway tomorrow is a school production of a musical and he asked me if he could invite her so I because I will do anything to make him happy went out of my way, bought her two tickets and emailed them to her with instructions not to cause drama and of course now I regret it all and if she has the balls to turn up which she probably will as she has no shame then now my brain is whirring trying to thnk of all the scenarios in my head that can happen and trying to work out my responses. This is what this vile bastards do to us, make us try to be as calculated as them but its not in my nature and honestly i should have just said no to him or said nothing he wont even see who is in the crowd as it is on a stage in a theatre and the lights will be in his eyes.

I sat and cried yesterday about it all. It is so unfair that they choose to put us through hell due to their own internal misery. Shes cut me off in one way or another from all family members but couldnt stop my friends being my support and it bothered her that much she went to lengths to hurt me. It is unfathomable to normal thikning people and instead of sleeping I am wide awake mulling over what to do when faced with this evil cow later.

Sorry for the lengthy vent but I needed to get it out somewhere.

Wow, I am so glad to have found this page. I'm 50 and last week the penny dropped that my mother is a covert narcissist, I had lunch with her and she said a couple of really 'off' things. I look back and it is so obvious - the victim playing, the triangulation (with my Aunt and DSis), the covert manipulation, the put downs, the dislike of my DH, the way she is with my DSis, the cancelling things at the last minute, the jealously of my success. In a way I feel relieved, just to have a name I guess. But also so sad. I think back how my DF (and yes he is my Dear Father - I don't blame him) has feed this, and she is so horrible about him.

I do understand where this has come from. Her DM was a overt narcissist, and she had a tough childhood with fighting parents, drinking DF etc. And I know she does it out of a deep sense of insecurity and low self esteem. But I also know that she sees herself as 'the clever one' and that there is always disappointment in how her life has turned out - 'this isn't how it is meant to be'.

So now what do I do? I had councelling last year and realised from that that I wanted a grown up relationship with my mother. But I've now realised that sadly that isn't possible. I don't want to go NC with her, especially whilst my DF is still alive, and also my DSs do value their relationship with her (although do see her for what she is).

To add to it all my MiL is a clear overt narcissist!

I'm finally realising that it is them and not me. I've had such dysfunctional relationships with these two important older women in my life for so long. And for so long I've deep-down blamed myself for being a failure. BUT IT ISN'T ME!

I am so, so sorry. Do you have to sit with the monster? Is there a supportive friend you can sit with? It’s very hard for you, but try to rise above any of the narcissistic bullshit. Minimal contact, keep your cool. Also, make sure you do something healing for yourself over the next few days. Thinking of you.

How old is your son? Is he old enough to tell him about your relationship with the monster and the incidents with social services.

Take care.

xxx

You’ve got to repeat the mantra ‘it’s not me’ constantly. The narcs are SO good at playing with your brain so you blame and doubt yourself. You are not responsible for them or their behaviour. I couldn’t go NC with my toxic mother in law, although to the end of the witch’s life I was so, so, so LC. She screamed “she’s not my family” and “why are you holding her hand” to my partner from her hospital bed. That was it for me.

if you can, take yourself out of her orbit and always have someone with you, if possible, so you feel backed up. Take care.

So, so incredibly sad for Mr Monkey.

We went to the funeral of his friend’s dad yesterday. Full Irish wake, so feeling very ‘tired’ today. His friend’s dad was the rock of his family - a proper, loving, supportive, kind father - and he was a substitute dad for Mr Monkey after his dad died when he was eight. I could see his mind whirring about what his family could have been, rather than the fucked up disaster zone it was with his vile abusive mother The Hag (Rest in Hell) and (now thankfully estranged) twat of a brother and a screwed up half brother who died in January.

We both kept silent when lovely friend remarked to a group of us “we’ll all so lucky to have great parents”. MM wasn’t lucky. He had an abusive snake pit of an immediate family. So sad for him today,

twoboystwodogs

indeed it’s not you but them. The toxic dysfunction has stopped with you because you’re not like them and you have not continued the cycle. Your mother had a choice when it came to you and she chose the low road. She never sought not wanted to seek any help. There was and remains no justification or excuse for how she has treated you.

You have two qualities she lacks - empathy and insight.

Sadly your dad cannot be relied upon either. Women like your mother cannot do relationships at all so they need a willing enabler to help them, step forward your dad. He has failed to protect you from the excesses of his wife’s behaviour. You probably also remind her of him, a man she has always hated.

Adult children of narcissists have been trained since early childhood to put the narcissist parent first with their own needs and wants dead last. You will come to
learn that people like your mother are really not worth bothering about. She will in all likelihood never let you see your dad on his own and he may not feel able to do so either. It is not possible to have a relationship with a narcissist.