SEPTEMBER 2025 - Well we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

I have now set up a new thread as the previous one is now full.
This long runnning thread has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.
The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!
One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;
'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'
Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.
Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.
NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.
You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.
'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.
I started with this book and found it really useful.
Here are some excerpts:
"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.
Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.
Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:
"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.
YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".
"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.
YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".
"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."
"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"
"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."
"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."
Helpful Websites
Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat for details.
Some books:
Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa
This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:
"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

I always gave NM the benefit of the doubt. She had a very dysfunctional upbringing herself. But it's no excuse. In the last few years it's become more than obvious to me what she does is completely intentional, including the smirks.

It's a 'ha! Knew that'd rile you up!' Type smirk and I can not comprehend why any loving parent would go out of their way to make you feel like that.

If they won't behave like that in front of others they know exactly what their behaviour is doing to their kids.

I don’t feel like I can carry on anymore.

Im estranged from my parents as I was the family scapegoat and my childhood was horrible. My sibling was golden child and is very much on my parents side.

An extremely narcissistic family member who I didn’t really see growing up barged into my life at the point of NC with my parents (as they were also NC with my parents). At this point I didn’t know anything about narcissism so didn’t recognise the lovebombing for what it was. This slowly turned into control and manipulation peppered with “love”. She isolated me from the people I cared about, spread rumours about me, and worse of all told people very personal things about me but twisted versions that were not true. She completely dismantled my life. I turned into a shell of myself and had a breakdown.

There are lots of family members in the extended family (100+) and none of them have shown me any loyalty. They have all sides with her and told me how “kind” they think she is.

She has spread lies and misinformation about me to everyone (she’s very influential where we live). My life is in tatters and she has told me they are all coming for my kids next.

I feel trapped and like I can’t breathe. My eventual breakdown several years ago because of their unending abuse has been used as evidence that I was always crazy (I wasn’t and I’m not). We tried to move house but she sent lots of flying monkeys after us to find out where we were going and has convinced everyone that they need to be concerned for my kids. But really it’s so she can track my kids and do what she has told me she’s going to do - turn them against me.

There is no escape. We are being tracked and controlled in ways that are plausibly deniable. Everywhere we go she has links and knows people. She has convinced everyone that I’m crazy and unstable (I’m not, the only destabilising thing is the abuse I’ve been put through). She drives passed me regularly (because she stalk me) and smirks - the narcissistic smirk that you’ve all been talking about. What can I do? She has won the twisted game she has been playing.

I feel so much envy for people who are from loving families. I can’t imagine what it feels like to feel loved and safe around family. I feel like I’m living in a tank of piranhas and the only thing I can do is let them eat me.

ScreamingButNobodyCanHear
this is awful, I'm so sorry this is happening to you. Do you have a partner? Do you get on with his family? Friends? It sounds as though you desperately need someone to talk to who's on your side. If there is no one, I'd definitely try to speak to someone who is neutral like a counsellor, Citizens Advice or the Samaritans.

Re the horrible narcissist, no one should have that much power over you. Was she called in by your parents? You say she was NC with them as well - so what is her motivation behind her horrible treatment of you?
Perhaps it might help if you keep a journal. Write down in points the things she has said to put you in a bad light, how she has twisted things and so on.

Because sometimes it helps to have it down in black and white so you can look at it with a bit of detachment, rather than the horrible jumble it must be at the moment. What exactly has she said about turning you kids against you. Why would she want to do this? Maybe keep a log of when and where you see her stalking you. If, and it's a very big if, she should somehow be successful in her nasty plans, and it came to officialdom investigating you, it would be really helpful to have records of what exactly has been happening, how long, and her declared aims, with approximate dates to show she has been planning it for a long time.
This might give you back some power in all this, as you seem to feel helpless under all the stress and no wonder.

@gloriousrhino

Thank you for you reply.

Yes I have a partner. He also has a toxic family who he is NC with. So there is nobody there either.

I find people generally don’t understand when you are NC with family because most people have normal families, so there isn’t really anyone to talk to. Also my DH deals with things differently to me. He likes to forget they all exist and compartmentalises things.

No, I don’t think the narcissist was called in by my parents. The way she talked about her sibling (one of my parents), I think she scapegoated them before they ended up NC then when she lost the supply through them she then scapegoated me because I was related to them. That parent was “nicer” than my other parent. Stepping back it’s like that parent married someone who was like their sibling.

As for her motivation for wanting to turn my children against me - I think it’s the same motivation that made her come after me - Generational abuse because my children are also related to her sibling.

I can’t afford therapy. NHS just throw medication at me.

Shame we can’t choose our family.

You can get a certain amount of therapy free on NHS - takes a while but if you put yourself on a list, by the time your name comes up you can take it or not depending on how you feel.
Also there are charities that could help, you have to be a bit proactive to find them.
Whatever you decide though, I think it would be good to keep records, for the reasons I said before.
You talked about moving before - it that still a possibility? You don't have to tell flying monkeys anything, or if you do, lie and tell them you're going somewhere completely different - enough to shut them up! And make sure Estate Agent, Buyer etc. know not to pass on any new address.
I think it's important to do something, whatever it is, just to make yourself feel you have some power. It would help I'm sure. You sound at the end of your tether - how awful that families can do that to us. As you say, shame we can't choose them.

We are rooting for you though!

@screamingbutnobodycanhear im so sorry, this must be so difficult.
Regarding the narc family member can you log from now on when you see them drive by your home. Can just be a mobile note? Can build a case for harassment, potentially get a restraining order. Don't know if this restraining order can include children too? When they are older you can explain to them so they know not to go near this individual. With all the flying monkeys unfriend on social media, ignore them all. You know your truth.

If you cant afford therapy is there a way to access cheaper therapy. I know some plays heavily discount if you have low income and then have it fortnightly instead of weekly? My local break charity do cheaper sessions so 20 per session instead of 50 or so.

I still have not heard a peep from either parents its 2 weeks today since I last spoke to them. I finding myself being triggered by things. A song, or a flashback memory. Then im thinking I cant believe im no contact how did it come to this. Then the thoughts of anger appear. I know its like a grieving type process but in just so sad and angry at the same time and I literally have no one to talk to about irl.
I cant access therapy because they are usually finished by the time I finish work. It just all isnt fair

Its coming up to my mums birthday. Not sure weather to just send a card or not. I've never not. Still not speaking to my parents and its been over 2 weeks.
Not going to lie, its hard. I think it's more the feelings of loneliness and that I have no support system to turn to then missing their actual company.
I think if I don't send a card there will be another blow up and im feeling quite fragile atm

@Sprinkleandsparkles I am the same but that is mainly because my stepfather died a couple of months ago. I went to the funeral on behalf of him and my child not her, thankfully she did not turn it into a circus but only one person in my whole entire family sent me and my child condolences. Nobody else so much as acknowledged us. It is very hurtful because I know I am a nice person and i know it is her lies but at the same time it hurts because why me? Why did she use me all these years as her scapegoat. It was always her telling ppl things and using my name, ridiculous one is that she told my fathers family I said something but in fact the entire conversation happened 20 years before i was even born but of course they dont want truth they seem to be fine bashing me instead. Horrible for my son as he has nobody but me as family. If anything happens to me I really fear he will be alone, this is what she has done with her lies. Despite that it is her bday and I was considering sending flowers from my son but I guess i shouldnt. Its all guilt isnt it? Years of being made feel guilty no matter what you did in life.

I know its tough. I sense some of mine is coming from fear too. Fear of the repercussions if I don't send the card. Definitely got FOG. Tbh my DS has not asked to see either of my parents. I've now realised it was me saying shall we see them to him. I think he knows what they are like too but just doesnt say anything.
Of the few times I had to ask to help and look after him (which i was made to feel guilty for) they didnt really look after him. Hes a easy going boy and doesnt say much. They would just leave him to watch tv and not put him to bed or they would leave him on his ipad and not speak to him. Only found this out not long ago when I asked my son what he did whilst there

It is soul destroying. How can people listen to her though? I mean who would listen to a mother badmouth their child/children in this way? Horrible things she has done and said about me over the years and I now see it for what it is, jealousy. She has no moral compass, no empathy but also no qualifications and has achieved nothing alone everything handed to her all her life but I have strived for what I have and it kills her. I cannot imagine being like that towards my child. You are meant to be proud of them not try and pull them down at every opportunity. It is sickening.

Hello! Do you think it’s possible to change roles within the narc family? So I’ve had no contact with MIL for many months now, no hoovering, no random flowers delivered like before. I am now it appears invisible. She does contact her son now and again when she wants something. She has seen biological grandchild once in months now, doesn’t ask about her. I guess I am now viewed as having no worth to her at all and this is filtering into the kids also. I’m not bothered and she is not bothered as she has lots of other supply. It just goes to show what it is that they look for in relationships. I’ve never met such self centredness (apart from my ex but I didn’t realise until after).

That's what I find so odd. The jealously of your own child. If they had done better than me id be happy knowing id done my job to help give them more than me. Id help them in anyway possible. However my own parents want to keep me down for some strange reason.

I feel like I'm losing my grip on reality. I can't actually get my head around the latest visit from a parent. Didn't say a word to their grandchildren (my children) just rabbited on and on about my sibling and their child.

I don't know how I'm in this position and I still feel it's somehow my fault they won't take anything to do with my children. I wish I had said something at the time, I was completely blown away by the absolute lack of interest. It's the first time it's been so obvious.

It’s never your fault that they are morons. Next time ask them to stop talking about your sibling or if they can’t they can leave. They won’t stop behaving like it because they are messed up but we don’t have to tolerate it.

Yawn everytime they mention your siblings etc then say how busy you are and start wrapping things up. Thing is they are so far up their own arses they wont even notice.

The best bit is, it was on my birthday they visited 😔
I think the ignoring behaviour was "payback" for me dropping contact right back about 2 months ago (due to this kind of thing) clearly this parent doesn't know about much that's going on in our lives now, but they never really did anyway. It was like a punishment with the usual "chatty and jolly" behaviour pretending it wasn't.
I know you're both right, it's strange how I don't stand up for myself or my kids with this person but can with anyone else.

Narcs will ruin any occasion that isn’t about them, or they try and make it about them and ruin it by proxy. I wouldn’t give it much thought. Just remember in the future to not invite them personally or never tell them something exciting first as they deflate everything. Tell your good news to people who cheer and then maybe at the end tell them when it doesn’t matter what they say. Try and contain those few hours of shit and then go off and do something fun, don’t let it ruin the rest of the day, compartmentalise it.

Hello, I’ve never posted here and I hope it’s ok to give it a try and join you! I am finally NC with my mum after 43 years. Dad passed several years ago, we loved each other and would have had a good relationship but it was always disrupted by my mum who has always been furious with me and insanely jealous of me. She would prevent my Dad from talking to me or insist that he needed to ‘punish’ me or ‘be more strict’ with me to ‘prove’ that he loved her. In the last 9 months of being NC my body has been telling me that it’s the right decision. I used to come out in terrible rashes after seeing her or even just speaking to her. Also have not had any viruses in the last 9 months of NC. Anyway just now she is in hospital, I don’t know what happened, wouldn’t even be totally surprised if she had managed to stage something deliberately to try to get back in control. Obviously I am thinking of getting back into contact but also in reality I can’t bring myself to. The only thing I could say would be get well soon, but there’s no possibility that any communication could progress well from there and can’t really see any benefit to either of us. It’s hard. I really really wished for so many years for a mother who I could have a relationship with and I still do, even though she’s proved to me over and over again how it’s not possible and is very toxic.
Also - she did take me to stately homes! And tried to be such a ‘perfect’ mother whilst also being incredibly abusive behind closed doors. It fits the thread title!

Newsunflower

Welcome to this thread.

Do not resume contact with your mother. No good will come of it. Sounds like she saw you also as competition for your dad’s affections. Such narcissistic types are really not worth bothering about.

How did you find out she was in hospital?. Who told you?

some abusive people can and do use health problems as a way of getting back at their targets going in for tests for previously unknown health problems. It’s a way of trying to regain control.

You will need to grieve for the relationship you should have had rather than the one you actually got.

Years ago my mother was having a great old rant about something to the point I stopped my car and asked her to get out (she told people i physically threw her out of the car of course) but she was in a right rage because a 'foreigner' had served her in a cafe and she was so rude I was mortified and she was going on and on in the car and as she got out of the car she roared 'I have cancer and it is your fault' and slammed the door. She never had cancer. She never even had tests for cancer she was in a narc rage and trying to be a victim. I wish now I never spoke to her then but I did.

Thank you for your reply!

I have quite a few siblings, and it was a sibling who told me. She has been very very awful to everyone this year, children and grandchildren, and so nearly everyone is NC with her now except for one sibling.

I know that you’re right and no good will come of it. There has never been any ‘good’, I sacrificed so much over so many years to try to do what she wanted so she would think better of me - of course she had me just where she wanted me for all that time. It was of course always not enough and always not good enough.

how great to be able to share this with people who understand. IRL I have lots of great friends but they do not have parents like this and it’s really hard for them to really understand what I mean if I try to explain.

Wow. Well done you for asking her to get out of the car. Those rages are so terrifying inside a moving vehicle! Have seen that too with my mum, never managed to be that assertive in person, but NC has been very good for me. Yes, totally manipulative to use a supposed health problem at that point. And it didn’t even have a kernel of truth - amazing.

Sounds just like my mum! I've always hated her rages/rants about 'foreigners' or her own toxic mum/siblings.
Ive actually felt at times that I've been her counsellor.

I actually laughed today because I was waiting for an appointment and in the wait room were 2 orchids. I brought my mum one last year. Was really pretty. Of course she grumbled she didnt like orchids. Then she grew to like it and had it for a few months. Next thing she no longer had it. She'd cut it up because she thought it was fake and plastic!
I mean how unhinged! 😂 I couldn't believe she had cut up the gift I brought her.
Was upset at the time but now I laugh and think what crazy behaviour

@Newsunflowerwelcome
I am in a similar situation and trying to decide whether to visit dm who is now in a care home. My circumstances are different though. I think in your position I wouldn’t visit and would remain nc for your own peace and mental wellbeing.

@Spendysis thank you. This is awful isn’t it. I’m sure in the future we’ll be in the same dilemma again with regards to care homes. She will probably live a really long time!!

I generally am honest with people now, because I’m done with covering up for her bad behaviour which is not my choice. So I imagine I would take that approach with healthcare staff if they asked why I don’t visit.

I haven’t got in touch with my mum at all. I can’t see any positive purpose it would serve. She doesn’t really care about me or hearing from me personally; she would love the attention but she would use it to tell me what an awful person I am and all the things I should have been doing for her, and poor her she is all alone and suffering. I do feel really sorry for her being all alone, but I’ve given her so many chances and tried so hard over and over again; she is the one who chooses to make it totally impossible and then is sorry that she’s all alone.

@AttilaTheMeerkat you are so right. I am needing to grieve the relationship I wish I had and the mother I wanted and needed. I’ve had years of therapy which has been extremely helpful, but then something like this happens and I realise there is still so much more…!