SEPTEMBER 2025 - Well we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

I have now set up a new thread as the previous one is now full.
This long runnning thread has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.
The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!
One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;
'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'
Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.
Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.
NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.
You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.
'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.
I started with this book and found it really useful.
Here are some excerpts:
"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.
Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.
Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:
"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.
YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".
"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.
YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".
"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."
"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"
"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."
"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."
Helpful Websites
Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat for details.
Some books:
Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa
This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:
"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

BTW has anyone read I'm glad my mom died by Jenette McCurdy?

Oh such book exists? I feel a lot of shame about my wishful thinking.

It's a memoir, she was a child star on Nickelodeon who was pushed into it by her mother. It's hard going - her mother groomed her into anorexia which then led to bulimia and she doesn't hold back in talking about it - but I found it to be a really interesting exploration of how a child can be abused and not realise what is happening to them, and how an adult can take advantage of a child's innate desire to please. And how those adults themselves don't necessarily believe that what they are doing is abuse. There were parts of it that were so familiar to me.

Hi, I've been non contact with my mother for a month now and it's brought back memories of what she has done and most days I feel that I may be massively overreacting over what she did. One of the many things that I have recently been mulling over is that she would almost taunt me for things that were out of my control. For example, growing up I had a dog who I loved very much. He was my best friend and at my side all the time. When he got older he often was incontinent and had accidents in the house. She would shout at him, which upset me greatly, but more than that she would say out loud that she would be sending him away. It was only me and her who lived together and now I realise her saying this and shouting at my dog was to cause hurt and frighten me even though I couldn't stop my elderly dog from weeing indoors sometimes. I was young too.

@Chefpig you’re really NOT overreacting to this. What a horrible thing to do to a child. She, obviously, knew how much your dog meant to you and what a friend he was to you. Put simply it’s emotional abuse.

Here at Monkey Towers, Mr Monkey and I are exhausted. It’s been a very tough month since BIL died, the funeral on Tuesday, all the admin, plus Twat Brother playing his usual games; this time over the will, I don’t know what part of you are NOT a beneficiary he doesn’t understand. Mind you, we’ve not heard from him this week.

off for a nap. Off for a day by the sea with a good friend tomorrow. Sea air.

take care everyone.

xxx

@Chefpig I think most of us who have gone NC or LC with family members have times where we doubt ourselves. We've usually been trained for years to believe that we are overreacting if we try to challenge abusive behaviour. For many of us it was our 'normal' for so long that even when we start to see that it's wrong we still have that deep-rooted feeling that we shouldn't be making a fuss/we're being unkind/it could have been worse. I don't know your situation but what you describe sounds awful. Despite what some people on MN/IRL would claim in my opinion people seldom (if ever) go through the stress and upset of going NC on a whim or for a frivolous reason. In my own situation and in many I have read here etc I think we tend to go for years making excuses, trying to fix things, giving the benefit of the doubt etc before we take steps to remove someone from out lives. It's rarely one big thing that leads us to this decision but death by a thousand cuts so it's easy to focus on one event and wonder 'did I over-react to that' rather than looking at the pattern of abusive behaviour and thinking 'I can remove myself from this'.

I remember when (after trying to just quietly not be in touch and being pushed for a date for him to visit my newborn DD) I told my parents that I did not want any contact with my abusive brother. Their reaction was 'You can't just stop seeing family. You might think you can, but it's not that simple.' DH (who is very supportive and does not have a dysfunctional family) helped me see that actually I CAN decide who I see and it should be that simple (particularly as he lived a very long way away from me) and what they actually meant was 'We won't make it easy for you'. That was eye opening for me. In all other situations we are told to walk away if we are not being treated with respect but our dysfunctional families take steps to prevent us from walking away.

Today marks one year since I last spoke to my mum on the phone. She hasn't called me since, just WhatsApp messages and the visit out of the blue last October. Today is my youngest DD's birthday and my mum sent a card, misspelling DD's name, crossing it out and writing the correct spelling 😒

@SlowSloths im sorry she did that and it will have been deliberate. They are souless emotionless bastards honestly.

i hope you have already shredded that card and I concur such an action was deliberate from your mother.

You need to grieve for the relationship you should have had rather than the one you actually got.

If I made a mistake I'd buy a new card.

I've recently finished two books you recommended: Toxic Parents, and, Codependent No More. So I'm processing all that right now. I'm definitely in the grieving phase. I'm passed anger.

I'm afraid and live in a close community (happily married) my name is blackened now as people must feel I am so mean and bad. My mum covers up her nastiness.

@Paradoes don't worry what they think. It's that old saying - the people who matter don't mind and those who mind don't matter. Find friends in a nearby town if your mother has made you a pariah in your local area. It's unlikely anyone with opinions about you due to something she's said is going to come up and say their opinions to your face anyway, so you'll not have to deal with whatever they're thinking. It's quite freeing once you realise that people are walking down the street all day every day with opinions about this or that and 99.9% of the time you'll never ever know what, so it literally doesn't affect you.

I’ve posted here quite a while ago about being NC with my DM due to her emotional manipulation and abuse. She died over a year ago and one of her DSis told me she was terminally ill but all the rest of her family including her DP closed ranks and didn’t tell me, but this one aunt who I hadn’t spoken to on 30 years (no reason, just not close to) started contacting me and being friendly. I did not see DM in the hospital or attend her funeral. It was a hard decision and not taken lightly.

After a couple of months I found this aunt quite suffocating as she was constantly saying I love you, hope to see you one day etc (they live long-distance flights away) and that she recalls how my DM used to treat to me. One of her DC also remembers how I was treated. They said they understood to some extent for being NC, but not that I didn’t return to my home country to see her.

The past year has been a complicated grieving process, and I couldn’t cope with the ‘love bombing’ from this aunt so I stopped answering her calls. I know I should have messaged her and said I need some space but I didn’t, so now I’ve just noticed on Facebook that she has now blocked me, as has my cousin. My other aunt has already cut me off and my other cousins I haven’t seen since the 90’s.

My DF (divorced from DM) has been telling his family how I’m a terrible disgusting person for not seeing my DM and now several aunts/uncles on that side of the family have also said they don’t want anything to do with me either. I have one aunt & cousin left on that side who will have contact with me.

My question is - why do people feel they need to take sides, interfere etc? My relationship with my DM was fractured beyond redemption and now both sides of my family have decided I’m scum and blocked me. I have DH and DC, and one aunt and cousin left.

My DM’s DSis who did contact me initially made me feel intensely uncomfortable after a short while and I have to say my spider senses were on alert that she was not all that she appeared to be. I feel like my life has shattered even more being cut off from almost all family on both sides. I’m not scum.

Sorry that was long 😥

@Airworld im so sorry that you are experiencing this, it’s awful. What I’ve learned about going NC is that exclusion is the price we pay for freedom. You identified the abuse you suffered, that in itself is a miracle as most people can’t, or won’t, acknowledge things like this because of what it would mean. You have seen first hand how people like us are punished by extended family members for calling out uncomfortable truths. Your family have chosen to not to take your side, they aren’t neutral either, they have clearly taken a side. I don’t know what advice I have for you other than empathy as I’m experiencing the same thing. I was listening to a podcast the other day and I heard something that hit a bit different, the person said, not everyone has the luxury of going NC due to finances or domestic violence etc and it made me see how “lucky” I was to have escaped. I don’t think anything will help other than time and perhaps therapy if you haven’t tried it before. Again, I’m sorry you’re experiencing this.

@Airworld people take sides because it helps to strengthen their relationship with the people around them. Refusing to take sides or taking the other side risks damaging those relationships and they may have very good reasons for not wanting to do that. They might enjoy taking sides because it's exciting and they can have gossipy conversations with the others and feel special and important. It's the same reason people support one football team and hate another, it's just human nature. I guess what we need to remind ourselves of is that it's often not personal, not really. It's not about us as people at all.

The concept of the scapegoat has been around for a very, very long time.

That sucks. It's such a little amount of effort, isn't it? TBH though, I don't think they do these things to deliberately hurt us. I think they do it so they can tell themselves and others that they made the effort and are therefore the 'good' people in this scenario. One of my children had a big birthday recently and my mother sent a bag of sweets, the cheapest, lowest effort thing you can imagine. She can tell herself she didn't forget or ignore it so she doesn't have to feel bad. She doesn't really care, and her behaviour over the years has made that very obvious, but this way, she doesn't have to admit to herself or anyone else that she doesn't really care because that's not socially very acceptable, is it?

Minimum effort people that expect maximum control over you or the narrative around you. All for glory.

People who side with abusers tend to also be the flying monkeys who should be avoided anyway. Flying monkeys have their own agenda and are not interested in hearing your side of things. They also do not want to become a further target of that person committing the abuse.

You see minimising and denial of outright abusive treatment on other forums; the pile on from posters without any thought in their heads, let alone any critical thinking skills, saying that the OP is stubborn, can't you talk to your mother, you are being sensitive etc.

I know she's just ticking the box - Birthday acknowledged... check. Then she can gaslight anyone who suggests she didn't do anything.

I read this today which resonated with me a lot.
www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/4ybBHtdNkCg9lF1rVPDKjjs/we-d-just-get-destroyed-verbally-getting-over-my-narcissistic-mother

I sent it to DH to have a read, he sees what my mum has done/is doing to my mental health and he is so supportive and I feel guilty sometimes that I take it out on him. I need to break the cycle and I am trying really hard. I have 2 wonderful DDs who are the ages when I started to find life with my parents the hardest. The ages when most of my negative memories began, I don't want that for them.

Its easy to take the route my mum did and be a shouty critical parent when that was my norm. Its actually quite exhausting stopping myself before i erupt, remain calm, supportive and optimistic when dealing with a DD meltdown, for example. It takes everything I have sometimes.

You have broken the cycle because you actively do not treat your dc in the ways your mother has and still treats you. In addition you have two qualities she lacks: empathy and insight.

Narcissistic mothers make for being deplorably bad parent figures. They cannot do relationships at all and always but always need a willing enabler to help them. This is often their husband.

She had a choice when it came to you and she chose to do similar as what was done to her. Her best was not good enough.

@Airworld I think when one member of the extended family decides to go NC with another it often puts a spotlight on behaviour that others are aware of but have chosen to ignore/excuse. I think for many it's easier to double down and agree that the person going NC is clearly unreasonable than to acknowledge that people knew they were being mistreated but didn't say anything.

I'm also wary of those who suddenly come out of the woodwork wanting to be really friendly (like your aunt). I have an aunt (DM's sister) doing something similar at the moment. After decades of never hearing from her (not even a card or message to acknowledge my wedding or the birth of my DC) she is currently calling and messaging frequently telling me what an untrustworthy arsehole GB2 is (agreed) and asking after DM's health/wanting updates on what is being done to look after her. On the face of it, she seems very supportive but I know that she loves drama and (like my DM) thinks she knows better than everyone else. She hasn't seen DM in many years and has made it clear that she can't/won't visit so I suspect she's looking to assuage her own guilt about not doing anything to help by 'supporting' me and sooner or later will instruct me that I must drop everything to become DM's carer. I'm pretty sure that if/when I don't do as she wishes she will be just as vocal about me as she currently is about GB2. So for now I am keeping communication bright and cheerful but watching my back.

@SlowSloths I've found it really hard, seeing my children reach ages when I can remember specific awful things happening, seeing what that age looks like from an adult perspective, and wondering WTF was wrong with my parents that they could behave the way they did and think it was OK, or at least not have enough of a problem with it to make the effort to change anything. TBH I think they were both so self-involved that they were oblivious to any impact it was having on me, and my father at times definitely saw me as competition for my mother's attention, the f*cking weirdo, even though he regularly said that she was shit and had ruined his life.

I've heard two things recently that have really resonated with me: some people don't realise they don't want children until they have them, and for some people, their first bully is a parent.

Plus when the bullied/scapegoated family member leaves, that creates a vacancy, and everyone is scrambling to make sure they aren't given the job. That sort of family system functions and bonds by having a nominated family member to bully.

Agree on the scapegoat thing. My god I feel sick at the bullying my own family have done to me. It really messes with your head not being able to do anything right and every accomplishment dismissed or dimished. I stopped being around my fathers side of the family when I saw it and still got blamed for things I could not possibly have done. I could never treat another human the way my family have treated me. My mother is a disgrace and does not feel any emotions but I hope my brother is disgusted with himself for his actions over the years I really do.

Hugs to everyone. It seems we’re all having a rocky time. Speaking of rocks, the entire company of toxic family members should be banished to a rock in the middle of the Atlantic.

Over at Monkey Towers, following the death of BIL in early Jan and his naming of Mr Monkey as sole beneficiary and executor, Toxic Brother has been sniffing around.

No help with the funeral, no expressions of grief and the only sign of interest in the awful events is a continued interest in the will, of which he now has a copy of. MM gave permission for the solicitor to release it. She was hounded by calls. The dick.

in 2024, when the Hag (vile MIL) died she left her not huge estate to MM.

Toxic Brother graced us with his presence at the funeral and was pretty much the pariah.

No further contact with MM until a series of abusive c-word ridden texts a couple of months later “yeah, it’s alright for you on holiday all the time when I haven’t got a pot to piss in”.

The only way he would know about our holidays - and we are not talking the Maldives - is from spying on us via social media. I’ve blocked him unilaterally from the day I met him. MM is not friends on socials with him. Our privacy settings are like Colditz.

Mate, no one actually gives a fuck about your poverty. You’re a twat. You embezzled your business partner. You spent absolute thousands with a top law firm trying to take the family home. You lost.

Now, he’s changed his tack to nice brother with texts to MM about MM’s health and some sob story about his operation - convenient excuse to not attend BIL’s funeral - not working out. Who actually gives a fuck?

MM is being civil and short, but not engaging. TB actually mentioned that he wants to come down to Manchester to ‘catch up’. More likely on the scrounge with a sob story. MM didn’t respond to that one. No fucking way are we spending time with that abusive twat. He’d probably leave us with a huge bill if we were Fucking stupid enough to entertain him.

i think in 2024 before the abusive texts, TB actually suggested that MM find a restaurant and BOOK IT for a family reunion. Needless to say, TB didn’t have a family reunion and we didn’t respond,

I’ve been encouraging MM to block him, but it’s ultimately MM’s decision.

I’ve also been trying to work out HOW he knows stuff. Worked it out. The one friend Toxic Brother has left is a guy who he’s manipulated for years. He’s on the spectrum and vulnerable as fuck. TB is checking up on us via him. He’s a disgusting piece of shit.

The sooner he realises we’re not dicks the better.

The messages were hilarious with Freudian slips.

“Hope you get batter, mate”. Considering his penchant for violence to women, I imagine that comes from predictive text when he was trying to pretend “get better, mate.”

MORON!

@MonkeyfromManchester nothing motivates people more than the potential of a windfall from a dead relative. We've dealt with similar on my mum and my dad's side. People can be like vultures. Ironically there was literally no money after funeral expenses in either case, no will either.

@ccraazysnakess my mum used to tell me i was very much wanted. Oddly! My brother, not so much. She had to "come to terms with having a boy". I just don't think she knew how to parent. Both my parents were military and they seemed to use that as parenting style.