SEPTEMBER 2025 - Well we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

I have now set up a new thread as the previous one is now full.
This long runnning thread has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.
The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!
One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;
'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'
Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.
Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.
NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.
You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.
'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.
I started with this book and found it really useful.
Here are some excerpts:
"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.
Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.
Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:
"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.
YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".
"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.
YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".
"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."
"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"
"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."
"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."
Helpful Websites
Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat for details.
Some books:
Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa
This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:
"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

@MonkeyfromManchester I think you've got the measure of GB2! You are absolutely right about what an incredible bunch of women we have here and how much it helps to support each other. Glad to hear you're having a relaxing time in Liverpool and hope you and MM can be free of TB very soon.

sorry to ask on here rather than start a new post on the mental health page but I don’t want to have to explain my situation again. Does anyone have any tips on dealing with anxiety. I have been struggling the last few days dreading work accounts but not an accountant so next week will be horrendous but I’ve survived the last few years. I have been triggered by a few things a colleagues / friends situation with his dm who was my neighbour for 20 years i worked briefly as her carer is in the same care home as dm and despite selling her house to pay for her fees the money has run out and he’s off with stress having to find somewhere cheaper she’s in her 90s with dementia i believe my dm is nhs funded despite having a £600k property that is being rented out

It would of been dmil and her twin sister birthday yesterday dsis best friend mum she was a lovely lady and my dc miss her and have fond memories of her my dm was more involved was great with them but due to dsis and dm going along with things they don’t want to see her and won’t have the same fond memories

And I am so sorry and don’t want to cause any offence especially to monkey we are all here because we have family issues but it is triggering for me as to everyone else I am classed the same as tb as I’ve done nothing for dm in the last few years because I’ve been cut off had to get ss involved to find out where she is i visited dd grave regularly to see if she’s died and check the death notices. I know the will has been changed I’ve been cut out and it would of been a significant amount i could of given my dc house deposits I have no intention of disputing the will or proceeding with getting the police involved I just want this whole nightmare situation over

Sounds like a nightmare @Spendysis I’m sorry.

I have anxiety too so you have all my sympathy. read up about anxiety as knowledge is power, get some tips on how to balance you - there will be lots of tips on sites about anxiety, but I ground myself with spotting the diffferent colours around me or listening and naming the sounds around me and loyd of breathing exercises. I’ve found the CALM app very, very helpful. Keep notes: what triggered an anxiety attack, how can I avoid this situation or approach it differently to keep myself safe.
take care xxx

I'm assuming you're using a funeral home to organise it - might it be worth having a word with them (if you haven't already) about the brother so that their staff are prepared and can deal with any issues if he does show up? They will have seen it all before and worse. That might allow you to pass the burden on to someone who has no emotional investment in the situation.

I had to have 6 months of CBT for anxiety back in 24 because things had got really bad. There were various things that led up to it (it was linked to a flare up of illness but there was other stuff going on at the same time). It has really calmed down now and I am a lot better. I can see now, looking back at my childhood, that I was an incredibly anxious child and probably firmly in the category of mentally ill and needs professional help, but my parents are idiots so neither of them noticed. I've carried it forward into adulthood and have a tendency to overreact to stressful situations.

I did several sessions of emdr with the therapist and probably need more at some point when I'm ready.

Things she suggested that helped:

we did a lot of active visualisation of being in a calm, safe place and doing diaphragmatic/belly breathing. This helps to calm the vagus nerve which plays a massive role in triggering the symptoms of anxiety. It runs from the gut to the heart and then the brain and the activation of the vagus nerve is one of the first messages that the brain gets to tell it there is a threat in the environment. In anxiety we've effectively got a trigger happy vagus nerve so it fires when the threat doesn't justify it. This sort of deep breathing calms the vagus nerve and reduces its activation. There are various apps that support the same sort of exercises.

Grounding techniques in the specific situations I was struggling with - count 5 things of a certain colour, do mental arithmetic, press your feet into the floor, repeat I am calm/things are fine to yourself.

Journaling as often as you can manage (every day if possible) and just writing down the mad thoughts and fears.

Facing the thing that is causing the anxiety. You have to go through the worse of the anxious feelings and out the other side, where you find that the sky didn't fall in and you didn't die. Feel the fear and do it anyway.

I am on medication, but a low dose because it's for pain management (and pain was one of the triggers for the anxious feelings so obviously getting that better under control has made a big difference).

@Toooldforlonghair it's mad, isn't it. One thing I find very difficult to deal with is the fact that I was symptomatic with the disease from my early teens and my mother either ignored it, or didn't notice. She did the same to sibling though in their case, was aware of some of the symptoms but never took sib to a doctor. She did, however, spend a lot of time on the phone to me telling me how much sibs symptoms were stressing her out. In hindsight I wish I'd told her to get sib medical help but at the time I was still immersed in people pleasing fog, I had a baby, and for a long time she definitely used her fear of getting ill again to manipulate other people. I'm sure the fear was very genuine. The problem was how she coped with it. The biggest problem, IMO, is that she's so self absorbed that she genuinely doesn't 'see' other people.

@AttilaTheMeerkat you suggested previously that I consider the roles we all had in our Dysfunctional family. Thank you- it's been eye opening.
The first thing I read included a definition of a dysfunctional family that included parents centering their needs and not the child's needs. My initial response was that although our family was difficult, it didn't meet this definition as my parents never really did things for themselves and went to great lengths to support GB1 and GB2 when I think many people would have cut them loose. But I am now wondering. It's clear that DM came from a dysfunctional family herself and took on the 'Parentified Child/Enabler' role whilst the family was clearly out of control. Partly as a result of that, I think she's always wanted to give the impression that her own little family is perfect and she is a perfect parent. I wonder if this is the need that she was centering?
I think I was somewhere between the Lost Child and the Hero- I learned that being a 'good girl' (achieving well at school, always doing things the 'right way' etc) made my parents pleased and that the best way to avoid conflict at home was to go under the radar and never mention my own feelings. GB1 and GB2 were golden children. Even when objectively their behaviour was terrible and should have been addressed DM excused it, blamed other people, protected them from consequences and generally changed the narrative so she could claim they were actually great people. This didn't do them any good, because they never learned to take any responsibility for their actions and were totally unprepared for a time when our parents couldn't 'save' them. I think this also ensured that they remained heavily involved with her, feeding in to the image she wanted to portray of having a lovely, close family. I moved away as soon as I could and for a while this fitted the narrative of me being successful thanks to my wonderful parents. Later, when I took the decision to go NC with GB1 (mainly for my DC benefit) I was treated as a trouble causer. Even then, she took steps to limit who knew about this (making me feel that if I told people, and particularly if I told them why, it would hurt her even more).Following GB1s death, these years were referred to as 'Awkwardcow's silliness' and people were encouraged to believe that I had realised the error of my ways. There's still an unspoken expectation that since GB1 is no longer around and DM is upset by this I should not challenge the rather rose tinted version of events. The expectation since then has clearly been that I will, when needed, step in to my rightful role as Enabler.
So now we arrive at a situation where GB2 has been very reliant on our parents and they ceased to be able to do this about a year ago. I have failed to step in to their shoes which has annoyed GB2 and upset DM. Now DM needs help herself and so they are doubling down on the idea that I MUST do things their way. I suspect part of her insistence that she must be cared for by family is her trying to create a certain impression about how close we are. I don't think DM is capable of fully understanding the situation and GB2's experience of life is that if he shouts loudly enough his family will step in and do whatever he asks. Since I am refusing to do what he says, they are repeating the patterns they have always done, by denying that he has done anything wrong and pretending that what he is asking of me is somehow my duty.
I am confused about what Dad's role has been. DM was always the bigger personality and I think to some extent he just went along with it until he believed it himself.

@awkwardcow is your mother to some degree a codependent/people pleaser, do you think? Because people who cannot break out of people pleasing (what I would call a controlling helper) often find themselves in relationships with people who want someone else to take the blame for their bad behaviour. It sounds like she does this with your brothers.

You've talked a lot about things being done a certain way to impress third parties and people outside the family but I would consider whether this is actually true. People pleasing starts in childhood as a response to a certain type of parent (one who outsources responsibility for their emotions to their child - the child must not upset them, and if they are upset, the child must fix it). People pleasing behaviours then offer some degree of control and also a way to relieve the anxiety caused by living with someone like that. So it can be very inward focussed rather than about impressing people outside the family.

I'm sure you're aware there's an obvious and clichéd sex difference going on here too. My own mother treats the boys very differently to how she treats me. I was expected to be the family maid. She treats the boys like they're still children.

Meant to add, toxic people pleasers can also get very angry and emotional if their attempts to 'help' are thwarted or rejected. Might this explain your dad?

And your brother's, by accepting the 'help' and perhaps even seeing it as their due, don't know how to manage without it, and that's why they are looking to you to now offer your services. Plus you're the daughter and some families think this is what daughters are for.

Awkward cow

Women like your mother cannot do relationships at all and need a willing enabler to help them, step forward your dad. He also acted like this out of self preservation and want of a quiet life.

I would still consider having nothing more to do with them because this is who they are and they are not going to change. Unlike them too you have both empathy and insight.

@crazylizardsss I think DM's behaviour definitely stems from her own FOO. They were dysfunctional by any definition and, as the oldest daughter in a large family, she was expected to act more like the parent. Her mother was ill and her father was an incredibly self centred man. She always had an odd relationship with her own siblings. Most of them treated her badly but she repeatedly bent over backwards to help them and seemed almost desperate to impress them. The one sibling who kept away from the others is deeply disliked although I can't remember ever even hearing of anything she's supposed to have done that is anything like as unpleasant as behaviours that are dismissed as silly mistakes for the others. It's fairly clear that she expects me to follow in her footsteps. I am determined to break the cycle and NOT do this, and definitely not encourage this sort of dynamic with my own DC.
It's interesting what you say about whether she is really trying to please others outside the family. I'm not sure of the answer. She definitely always wanted to please my brothers and there was/is a definite co-dependency. However, there was always a huge disconnect between her persona within the immediate family and the image she tried to project to extended family and the outside world. She wanted the outside world to see her as laid back, liberal, fun, non-judgemental and 'live and let live'. Privately she is one of the most judgmental people I've ever known and even with fairly minor things (eg what I wore as a teenager, teenagers having boyfriends/girlfriends etc) she would publicly say 'there's no harm, let them' and privately ban it- telling me repeatedly that I should have higher standards than others. She always wanted to control me, but give the impression that I was just doing what I chose.
My wedding was a good example of her behaviour- I wonder if, not being close to it but having knowledge of these behaviours, this makes any sense for any to you lovely people.

• DH and I lived many miles away from my family. When we started to very openly discuss marriage/children etc my parents decided to move much closer to us (bringing GB2). They claimed this was a coincidence- they'd been considering it for a long time, it was better for DF work (which involved a lot of travel) and GB2 needed to get away from 'bad influences' where they lived.
• My parents met up with us and DH parents several times and seemed to get on well. We discussed wedding plans etc and DM's advice was that it was our day, we should do what made us happy and should not listen to anyone else ('including me, ha, ha'). All seemed perfectly normal. DM seemed to be treating me like a normal adult human being, what a relief! I thought we'd be able to enjoy planning a wedding etc
• I told DM our outline plan for the wedding in a hotel in our own town. She was quiet, then later that evening called and hit the roof. I must have a church wedding, and it's tradition to marry in your parent's parish. She had already spoken to her vicar. I said no. Dad called to remind me what a difficult time DM was having with GB1 and GB2 and now all this! We agreed to marry in the church, but have the reception in the hotel we chose. This was accepted for a while, but what about older relatives, what about people with young children, people will want to drink, we can't expect people to travel far between venues. We agreed it was logistically tricky and found a nice hotel in their town. DM then 'helpfully' presented me with a list of family and friends who must be invited. This was at least twice as many people as we budgeted for in total, and more than our chosen venue could cater for. Tried to have a sensible conversation and all hell broke loose. DM found a venue that could accommodate 'our side' plus a small number more and came up with some calculation based on number of siblings of me, DH and each of our parents to conclude that 'our' side should be about 10 x the number as 'DH side'. There were huge arguments about this and just about every aspect of the day, including DM trying to offer 'roles' (eg bridesmaids, best man etc) to family or people I barely knew that she decided deserved something nice. I was told repeatedly that the wedding was not about me, and that it was unreasonable and worrying/controlling that DH wanted to be involved in decisions about the day. I was made to feel bad and ended up compromising, which meant not having the day I wanted and not having space for more than a hand full of our friends but having many of DM's friends and distant family members who I would not be able to pick out of a line up.
• DM wanted me to stay with her the night before the wedding and get ready there. I arranged a mobile hairdresser and had my dress there etc. I was assured that it would just be a relaxing night with me, DF and DM (GB2 was in the house but rarely left his room anyway and I did not want GB1 around, I made this very clear and they knew why). When I arrived, GB1 and his wife and children were staying- apparently an arrangement with one of DMs friends to bring them (the only reason I agreed this person I did not know would be invited) 'fell through'. I was expected to sleep on the sofa and GB1 was already drunk and loud. I went back home but DM 'suggested' I take GB1s children with me so GB1 could relax and would be less likely to be 'tired and emotional' at the wedding. The story now is that I planned this as a nice 'pamper evening' with my nieces (the youngest was only 2 and in nappies!).
• GB1 was supposedly giving up drink and would not be a problem at the wedding. He was supposed to be leaving after the speeches so alcohol would be limited until that point. He was already drinking before breakfast, insisted on coming with me and DF in the bridal car, threatened DH and followed DH and I when we went to have some individual photos, refusing to leave until I had an individual photo with him. I had to stand my ground to prevent him from rearranging things so he could be on the top table. DM and DF refused to ask him to leave early (I doubt they ever even agreed it) because he was 'being well behaved' and it would cause a scene if DH told him to go, and that would be our fault because his impeccable behaviour showed that we had been unreasonable all along to even suggest he shouldn't be there. GB2 was officially an 'usher' as a compromise when DM insisted he should be the best man but was barely seen as he was too busy doing drugs and passing out in toilets.
• The tension, arguments, silent treatment (from DM and DF) and repeated compromises are, to this day, talked about within the immediate family as an example of me being self centred and 'a bit bridezilla'. If anyone else is around the story is that I planned every aspect of the wedding and my parents just went along with it.

@awkwardcow dear god you poor woman. That all sounds horrendous. I recognise some of it in my own situation.

No-one could possibly think badly of you for removing yourself from the family and leaving them to it.

@crazylizardsss Thank you for understanding. It's actually helpful just to be able to communicate this with someone outside and not be told 'Ah, but they are your family'. The insane thing is that I know that anyone who knows my DM WOULD blame me if I walked away. She has been excellent at managing her image and I very much doubt anyone who knows her would believe any of this even if I could find a way to tell them. Particularly since over they years she's hinted to people that I might be rather highly strung and prone to exaggerating and GB2 will confirm that he was always around and things I mention simply didn't happen (as he did when I gave specific instances of GB1 being violent towards me to back up my decision to not him near my DC).
Once DM dies I will ask a solicitor to deal with anything she still has to leave and will not so much as acknowledge GB2 again. He might persuade a few flying monkeys to make half hearted pleas for me to see him, but I doubt any of our extended family will be too interested. Whilst DM lives, I think I have 3 options:

1. Go along with what she and GB2 want - this will not be happening
2. Decide a level of involvement that I am prepared to put up with and stick to it. This would probably mean helping arrange external care/better accommodation and doing some of the medical appointments but cutting back in other ways, and certainly not taking on more. I think this is probably most realistic, but will still involve seeing GB2 and being subject to the constant demands to do more etc
3. Tell them I will see her if she wants but socially only, and on my terms and that I do not owe any of them any more. This will inevitably result in being asked why, explaining and them cutting contact. In many ways I know this is the option I should take, and would be better for me. But I think at the moment I would still feel too guilty as I know DM is a victim of her own upbringing and it feels cruel to make this stance now, when she's alone and vulnerable .If I did, I also know there would be a campaign from GB2 and the extended family to 'make' me see I was wrong, which would probably be very unpleasant and they would try to drag my (young adult) DC in to it which is something I strive to avoid.

Equally it could be argued that your mother did this to you because she could. She had a choice when it came to you and she chose the same old that was likely done to her. She could have chosen to act differently .

You certainly do not treat your adult dc in the ways your mother and siblings have treated you.

And do you think your mother feels guilty, not a bit of it. Why do you feel guilt, you’ve done nothing wrong here. Asserting your own boundaries here is not wrong . It’s not you, it’s them. And she’s not alone, she’s got gb2. Leave them to it. Also you do not have to make any announcements at all to them, you owe them precisely nothing.

@awkwardcow if you had free choice, and could do whatever you wanted, what would you do? If you weren't worried about their reaction or the possible fallout?

You said you'll see your mother if that's what she wants.

What do you want? (given the limitations of the family you have, not the family you would like to have)

@awkwardcow also, if people your mother knows want to believe her version of events, let them. The opinions of third parties who are operating from limited information shouldn't be taken into account.

Let them think badly of you. It's fine.

Thanks @crazzylizardsss This is a helpful discussion. I think in all honesty, given the family I have (obviously what we all really want is to change them) my ideal would be to go and see DM socially and maybe help her out with simple, non-contentious things (like reading letters from friends, doing some shopping etc) occasionally but not to be involved in day to day care or discussions about decisions that will become contentious. I do feel sorry for her, and I think if we could manage to spend time together doing more normal things and not having interference from GB2/ending up being told by DM how I should be helping GB2, we would have a chance of developing something like a sensible relationship for these final years. However, I think this would only be possible if she had external carers or is in a care home (so her day to day needs are dealt with) because otherwise any visit inevitably becomes about what she needs me to do which then drifts in to why it's out of order that GB2 is doing anything, which becomes why I should actually be helping GB2 as well. Also, if she had carers around she wouldn't want them to see arguments so we wouldn't get the 'Everyone else's DD does more, what have I done to deserve this, you just want me to go away and die' comments or 'I've never seen anyone work harder than GB2, he deserves help, why won't you help him, you're selfish, you were never selfish before you met [DH], you've been brain washed.'

It is easy for me to say from an outside perspective that if you're visiting and she starts going down that path, you can cut her off and say I'm not having this conversation, and if she persists, you can leave. But these things are options. It is something I had to find a way to do with my own mother. I would rehearse in advance so I had a response ready. I don't want to talk about that. That isn't going to happen because I am not doing it. All the things I should have learned to say as a child but was never allowed to say, ie. anything with the word no in it.

You do have some control over what sort of relationship you have with her. You can put in what you want to put in, and she can accept it or not. A lot of it depends on how able you feel you are to put up with a negative response from her. But do you know what? Once you're an adult, and you don't have to live with them any more, their negative responses lose 99% of their power because you can just go home and turn your phone off and it's fine. You will question yourself so much at first. Am I being mean. Was I rude. Am I awful. But she wants. It gets easier the more times you do it. My mother blew her top the first few times I said no and it was really hard. There were tantrums. But over time, she gave up. Actually she gave up to the point where we barely communicate now, partly because I'm no use to her any more I suspect.

You are right @crazylizardsss And to be honest, this is something I'd done when I went NC with GB1. There was about a year of shouting, accusing, flying monkeys, blaming everyone else (plus threats from GB1) etc but they eventually grudgingly accepted how things were and understood that the conversation would end and I would leave if they tried to challenge my decision. They tried to re-open the discussion when GB1 died to try to persuade me that he was actually a misunderstood saint and I should learn my lesson and be closer to GB2 but the same tactics worked. Over the years they have made a few attempts to get me to 'see sense', whenever there is some sort of family crisis and they want me to take what they see as my appropriate role but they've quickly backed down and we've gone back to being polite. However, until DF became very ill they were always able to do what they wanted, and support GB2 as they wanted, without me if they needed to and I never felt the need to step in. When was ill I dropped everything and helped them (but not GB2, which they would all have liked). This seems to have been interpreted as me 'coming to my senses' and doing what I should have done all along. They are all now acting as though me wanting to lead my own life is something new and unexpected. I suspect that getting back to polite visits only will be more difficult this time as DM actually does need help but won't accept that 'outsiders' when she thinks I should be there for her. GB2 will also stir things more than before, because this time he wants me to do things for him as well since our parents are no longer able to. He's been ramping up his attempts to 'make' me be his support human since Dad was ill and so far seems to be a rather slow learner.

They can both want until they are blue in the face, but fortunately they cannot make you do it, though they may well give you a tension headache. I am in a similar sort of life phase and went through this a couple of years ago - my stepfather died and after almost 20 years of barely any contact, my mother was suddenly messaging and calling multiple times a day and shrieking 'But I'm on me own!' every five minutes. I know she was grieving, and it was hard. His death was unexpected and awful. I feel for her, the same as I feel for anyone in that situation. But I cannot be her servant again. I cannot. I will not. It will destroy me. It was really, really hard and I ended up in therapy which TBH was probably long overdue (and DH, who made me go, said maybe it will help fix the relationship, but it actually made things worse). The place I have settled in is that I accept she is getting older and needs help, but I do not have to be the one to provide it and it is okay to let other people shoulder that burden. Unfortunately, this doesn't seem to have left much relationship once that's removed. She's just so persistently selfish and unkind and there doesn't seem to be anything else she is willing to offer me.

Bumping this thread for anyone who needs it.

Thank you @AttilaTheMeerkat I’ve found it.

Thanks to those on this thread (and the others before it) I’ve really started to explore and accept that I was for a long time surrounded by abusive family members, including my husband.

Through lots of reading, talking, exploring and self acceptance I have got divorced, cut almost all contact except essential with my family and put really firm boundaries into my life to respect my worth so thank you. All of you.

@Spendysis gosh, I’m so sorry if my conversations re TB have been triggering. I know how people are portrayed in families. I’m sureryou’re portrayed- wrongly - as the cause of the issues. And you’re not! The difference here is thsr TB really IS the cause of the horrendous issues in MM’s family. Even if TB had money out of the estate he wouldn’t give the money for house deposits for his kids. We’ll be the people doing that as he’s walked out on his kids. Sorry if I triggered you. X

@MonkeyfromManchesterno need to apologise at all we all have our own family problems which is why we are here and we all support each other