SEPTEMBER 2025 - Well we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

I have now set up a new thread as the previous one is now full.
This long runnning thread has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.
The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!
One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;
'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'
Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.
Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.
NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.
You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.
'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.
I started with this book and found it really useful.
Here are some excerpts:
"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.
Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.
Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:
"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.
YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".
"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.
YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".
"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."
"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"
"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."
"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."
Helpful Websites
Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat for details.
Some books:
Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa
This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:
"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

too old stress absolutely can make you physically ill. I recommend you try to escape the toxic situations permanently, before your physical health fails permanently. Stress lowers the immune system. Chronic stress floods your body with too much cortisol on an ongoing basis. That wreaks havoc on your internal systems and can lead to you developing a multitude of health conditions which may be long lasting/permanent, some of which can leave a person disabled.

Monkey I think it's because in the UK for some reason we grow up believing Next Of Kin is some kind of official thing with legal standing that gives rights and privileges. It isn't, but MM understandably acted the way everyone normal acts. It would be different if TB was executor or beneficiary of the will, or if someone was wanting him to contribute to funeral costs/make arrangements, then he'd have needed to be told. But what's done is done now. Just make sure you find out about the timeline for forcing TBs hand over the will, if he does start something. You'll have to pay your side of the fight and solicitors won't necessarily volunteer the information on the timeline for when you can force his hand.

In my own life I've managed to sort things out with one of the nice people, who isn't taking sides thankfully. They had been roped in as a FM. Conversations were had, and we're good. The others I don't know yet. An attempt to hoover was made over Christmas, which I almost fell for, but swerved at the last minute as it all became more and more ridiculous. Hopefully I can do better in 2026.

You’re welcome. The camaraderie on this forum is beyond gold. The mind games in MM’s fucked up family is incredible. My jaw is agape at TB’s barefaced cheek.

Those illnesses - and the insomnia - are terrible. Definitely a reaction to trauma. I really feel for you. Xxx

I think MM wanted to do the ‘decent’ thing. TB doesn’t deserve any decency. He’s a twat.

I’m going to encourage MM to 1) understand the solicitor’s billing 2) the legal standing of a possible challenge 3) I will give him all the info - I’ve collected it - on TB’s behaviour to his family, the estrangement, the abuse, and the timelines 4) plus tot up all the costs of the funeral, wake, insurances that he’s had to take on, heating bills he’s paying etc.

I think the solicitor we’ve got is reasonably priced, good and ethical. Well, let’s hope so!

You sound very clear eyed about your situation. The abuse often and surprisingly makes us very tough. I’ve got balls of steel - finally - for dealing with the shit show that is MM’s family. Keep talking here. Xxx

And so the saga with DM continues. As predicted by @MonkeyfromManchester DM got ill.

Yesterday evening I suddenly got a message from Dsis acting as Flying Monkey saying DM was at the hospital having had a 'weak episode'. I don't think Dsis knew that she was being used and to be fair to DM she has some health issues:. high blood pressure for years and recently some related heart issues. So much of me wanted to tell her what to do with her weak episode but DH backed up DD2 persuaded me that a neutral 'OK,thanks for letting me know' followed by radio silence was the best course of action.

Anyway come this morning and the phone rang. It was DM so I declined it but she was so persistant that I gave up and answered. I was literally shaking as I went to get my phone. I was expecting the Wan-Voice-of-Doom the telephone version of the famous MN Dressing Gown of Doom. Instead she was all sweetness and light, no mention of previous call and of course not the even the merest hint of an apology. After 36 minutes describing in minute detail everything that happened (I managed to say about 3 words). it turns out the episode was an adverse reaction to a change in medication!

@Toooldforlonghair yep, they are nothing but predictable. I’m sure the illness was exaggerated. We had exactly the same with The Hag. I liked the ‘coughing in the night til I was sick’ and no cough at all the next day!

Being cool and neutral and distant is the best way. When the spleen doesn’t work, they turn on the charm and then switch back. It’s exhausting. I’m just waiting to see the games TB will try. The guilt trips don’t work with us. He once had a brain tumour - sorry, he once MADE UP a brain tumour - to elicit sympathy and get SIL back in his life. She just laughed.

DM will start using illness as a way to ramp shit up. But you know that. Sending hugs.

Toooldforlonghair

Indeed people like your mother do use health problems and tests (often previously unknown) as a way of further controlling their target.

My trip to my nieces birthday is getting close. I thought I would have to see my NC parents at her party. But she says family will visit on her actual birthday and they might just do something with me when i am there. I don't know how reliable that is. She's only 11.

It would be such a relief. It would take such a weight off my shoulders. I dread all messages from my brother, her dad. I don't know what's more stressful: asking what the plan is and wait for his message or not knowing and finding out on the day. I have tried to push it away and its worked so far, but thoughts about scenarios have started to creep in and im very irritable. I hate what these people have done to me.

I think this is true. She definitely used to use DF's condition as a means of control. She did sacrifice a huge amount but I think she also enjoyed the martyrdom. Her attempts to weaponise her own health doesn't work. I just ignore and change the subject. It's just I was blindsided by the unexpected and unjustified rant bringing up stuff so trivial I can honestly say I have no recollection of. Thinking back I think my main crime was that I dared to call her out.
Anyway she's her own worse enemy. We have shortened our stay. DS2 lives in Dublin and DH has booked us another night there with dinner at my all time favourite restaurant. Combining a trip to DM and Dublin is not really possible in a weekend trip. Again DM sees this as a personal insult so sometimes we just go, see no one there connected to the family and impose a social media blackout.

monkey heating costs, council tax, insurance etc, as well as funeral costs etc, relating to Slave Son/his property are charged to/come out of his estate before the beneficiaries are paid. If there's nothing left after those costs then so be it. That's standard. So MM won't have to foot the bill for that regardless.

Solicitors charge for their time and also any letters they write and calls they make. So I wouldn't worry about spending too much time talking about it until TB actually raises an official objection and you receive solicitor's letter from him.

If there's a property, after probate and inheritance tax (if applicable) is sorted, get the property transferred into MM name ASAP before TB lodges an interest in the property and then that's another thing to sort out before transfer can be done. He sounds like someone who'd do that even though he has no possible interest in the property.

Make sure the transfer is registered at the land registry properly afterwards. Shoddy solicitors sometimes skip out on this part, causing havoc further down the line if you try to sell a property years later that's registered to someone else and have long since misplaced the paperwork proving it's yours. Not that I'm saying your solicitor is shoddy, I've seen it happen with tight people who won't pay the extra for the solicitor to sort the registration too and then don't do it themselves either. Just be aware it's a thing that needs doing.

On my own situation I'm clear about it because I've been dealing with a narcissist ex for years. When I decided to start changing my life for the better, I came up against similar behaviour from some of my family, once you see it you can't unsee it. I've tried everything to have a healthy relationship on whatever level and suffered a lot in the process, but it's impossible, so I've no choice but to cut loose.

It's interesting to see people talking about health issues being used for manipulation/control as I've definitely seen my mother do this. Getting very angry when she doesn't get what she believes to be the appropriate amount of attention for a health problem, and also weaponising an illness for years after the event and encouraging flying monkey behaviour from me (which I admit to participating in at the time) by saying she needed to be protected from stress at all costs. The funny thing is, both sibling and I have long term, incurable, life changing chronic illnesses and she's got very little sympathy or understanding for either of us. She just doesn't seem to get it. She told me once that in her opinion private healthcare is disgusting and that people who use it are selfish (I had in a moment of weakness told her I was seeing someone privately because I had waited over a year for help from the NHS and was utterly desperate - at the time I could barely go more than a mile from the house). She's never once asked me if I need help or support. In contrast my MIL has offered to pay for surgery multiple times. My mother seems to have no understanding about how comments like those make me not want to talk to her.

@MonkeyfromManchester FWIW I just wanted to say that we had a challenge over a will in our case - sibling challenged my father's will after we were both disinherited. Sibling used a no win/no fee solicitor to do it. The people who had inherited dealt with this by making a voluntary payment from their portion which put an end to it v quickly and meant it didn't turn into a lengthy and expensive legal process. I've got no idea how much money was involved though I do know that sibling ended up w v little after the solicitor took their cut. I know you've said that you don't want the brother to have any money and I understand where you're coming from, I really do. I get how enormous the anger is. But at the end of the day, it may be less stressful and healthier for you and MM to have on the back burner the option to give him a small voluntary pay out if he does challenge just to put an end to it with minimum fuss. Maybe it would be OK to just send a few grand his way, not for his benefit, but for yours. Buy yourself the peace. There's nothing to be gained by going to war with him, or by spending this time winding yourself up thinking about what he might do. The only people who win in that situation are the solicitors. If he wants a bit of money, let him. You've already said you suspect he's broke so of course he's going to chase the money if possible, particularly through channels that don't cost anything. Being disinherited hurts (ask me how I know). It's like the money is weaponised from beyond the grave but we can make choices that take that power away.

I would not give tb a single dime going forward unless legal process demanded it. And I certainly would not consider a voluntary payout to the likes of him as he’d again squander it all, he deserves sweet fa.

All mm needs to do is carry out of the wishes of the deceased to the letter. I also don’t think TB has a leg to stand on either seeing as he is not seemingly mentioned in his late brothers will.

Enjpy your night off in Liverpool. It’s a great city. Sadly I do not live near there (am in the south east).

It's not about what he deserves, or what he might do with the money, or what the will says. ATEOTD it's about being open to options which might be less stressful because it's obvious that this is adding a heap of extra pain to what is already a very difficult situation.

So he spaffs the money away, it's really not that big a deal.
So he doesn't deserve it. People get stuff they don't deserve all the time. If the options are a one off voluntary payment and an end to the relationship, might that not be better than weeks or even months of letters from solicitors and threatening text messages and drama?

Sometimes I think the biggest mistake we make in relationships with people like this is that we become too fixated on not letting them win, on proving that they're wrong, on wanting to punish them. All understandable but at the same time, we're creating a lot of unnecessary work for ourselves, especially if a fight is what they want. It's OK to let them get their own way if it means you are done with them with minimal fuss.

It’s not about letting him win, it’s just that as expected his brother has come sniffing around monkey man when he’s had little to nothing to do with him for a long time. Why should he have to pay off someone like TB?He’s not named as a beneficiary and so has no leg to stand on.

He shouldn't and doesn't have to.

But maybe, if it would reduce the stress that MM is experiencing, and make a horrible situation go away more easily, it is worth keeping on the table as an option.

That's all.

Speaking of weaponising health issues- DM and GB2 have just moved on to the next phase in 'force the Awkwardcow to become DMs carer'.
She has a home of her own, with lots of adaptations for her physical needs, but currently refuses to stay there as she believes something bad will happen to her (this is entirely irrational and I believe is part of a wider pattern of dementia symptoms- I am helping her get an assessment but GB2 refuses to consider this as a possibility). DM and GB2 refuse to even consider any solution other than her moving in with one of us. Whilst I have been trying to get a discussion about what care she needs and sustainable options for addressing this, DM and DB are convinced that the only argument is which of us is best placed to house her. About a month ago GB2 took her to stay with him and declared that neither of them want to see or hear from me again. Since I believe that DM is not mentally well, I have reassured her that I will still be in contact with her but taken GB2 at his word. I'm sure I was supposed to beg for his forgiveness in order to avoid upsetting DM and volunteer to move her in with me. Since I didn't, I have daily calls from her with GB2 in the background prompting her to tell me how unwell she is and how difficult things are for them. I am still expected to manage (and take her to) all DM's medical appointments, household admin and finances etc. My response to tales of DM being unwell is now that I will add it to the list of things to speak to the GP about but if he feels it may be urgent he should call 111 (they never do). GB2 still says he doesn't want to speak to me (fine) but every few days there is a call from DM with him in the background doing a monologue about how much easier it would be for me to look after DM and what a terrible person I am. I have suggested we ask for an update needs assessment, since her needs have clearly changed and she is not in the same accommodation but they both refuse on the basis that everything is fine and GB2 does anything she needs. I suspect they both know that anyone assessing the situation would say the same as me.
I repeatedly get calls from DM with the special voice of doom that @Toooldforlonghair mentioned. I know that the tales of her 'terrible nights' are supposed to make me go running over. Recently she added in how worried she is about GB2 as he does far too much, and she doesn't know how she would cope if for example he was not well himself. Lo and behold this morning she told me in the voice of doom that GB2 has flu- but not mild flu like I must have had because I was able to get up and make phone calls for her but GB2 hasn't been out of bed all day so he has proper flu. (For context, GB2 will take any excuse for a day in bed watching TV). They will just have to manage she supposes, but she has no idea how they will get shopping etc. This is very clearly intended to make me think I should go and collect her and offer to help GB2 too. I've pointed out he has a partner and a child, so they'd have to find a way to manage even if she wasn't there but if necessary I could organise a supermarket delivery. This will undoubtedly ramp up tomorrow and I expect to be told they are worried about her catching the flu from GB2.

Hi awkward cow

re your comment
"DM and GB2 refuse to even consider any solution other than her moving in with one of us".

Resist this at all costs. Tell Social Services that you are unable to care for your mother in any form. Say no and repeat no this does not work for me. She needs a dementia friendly care home place.

She moving in with you will be a DFS aka disaster from the start and it will impact your family's life, not just to say your own, to its detriment. Do not be railroaded by GB2 and other family members into doing such a thing. Of course GB2 would want her to move in with you so he therefore has to do nothing more.

re your comment:
"About a month ago GB2 took her to stay with him and declared that neither of them want to see or hear from me again".

On one hand they both want you to be your mother's carer and on the other they do not want to see or hear from you again!. They cannot have it both ways here. I would take them at their word and no longer bother with either of them. Leave them to it and opt right out. You need to drop the rope they hold out to you here. You are anyway still being contacted by your mother and GB2 is using her as some sort of mouthpiece to manipulate. People like GB2 with his man flu (far worse than any other types of flu!) will certainly use illness in an attempt to further control you.

I'd block GB2s access to you via phone calls entirely and cease doing anything for your family of origin. They are not grateful for what you do anyway and what your mother wants and what she needs are two very different things. Talk to Social Services and her GP and tell them all that you cannot and will not ever be your mother's carer. You are under no obligation to do this and I guess GB2 wants you to do this so she can be off his hands entirely.

Thank you so much for that advice. Our gut instinct is that TB would want to challenge the will just to be an awkward spiteful bullying bastard. However, I strongly suspect he hasn’t got any money to pay for a solicitor. I don’t think a no win, no fee would take him because the last will wasn’t replaced with anything new and he’s not a dependent. MM is very much cross the ts and dot the is and will be on it.
Thank you for that wise advice.

Classic narcissistic behaviour around health. It’s exhausting. Take care.

@awkwardcow
Your position is exactly why I am grateful to have 400 miles and a large expanse of Sea between DM and us. I may have to spend stupid amounts of money on trips where I spend my time, walking on egg shells and wishing I was elsewhere. (This doesn't apply to seeing DS2 in Dublin BTW) but at least I will never have your caring pressures. DM won't ever move back to UK so Dsis (Golden Child) of has the joy of caring to look forward to. (Last sentenced typed with a smirk on my face.)

@crazylizardsss
I don't have any chronic illness, thank goodness but DD2 had major surgery at 12 (Scoliosis) and has something called Perthes Disease which means she will need a hip replacement in the future. In an ideal world DD2 would have a hip replacement but is too young. DM is not the least bit interested. Never once has she rang or sent a card or reacted in anyway even after surgery. DM never inquires after my health or that of my 4 DC and there's no way in hell would she ever inquire about DH despite us being married over 35 years. Dsis and family however, only have to cut their finger and it seems the whole world is alerted.
The dynamic towards me and illness is particularly strange. Apparently I don't get ill. I can remember her saying this to people even when I was a child. I have a horrible memory of being ranted at after being sent home following an accident at my part-time job and more recently I was told that 'You don't sound ill' when drugged up to the eyeballs having been blue lighted to hospital in the early hours.

I see your point, but it’s not about winning, it’s about doing the right thing. Lately deceased brother knew what an arsehole he was.

TB has been an abusive toxic twat all his life. TB jettisoned his sons, his mother and his brother when it suited him. He physically, sexually and emotionally abused my SIL. His abuse of his family caused his youngest son to develop such profound ill mental health that he tried to take his own life last year.

He’s only popped up because he smells £. And yes, if we gave him money he would spaff it up the wall on coke, prostitutes (male, female or even underage) and he would desert family number 2.

So, no.

We’ll get through this low point. My BIL’s funeral is next week and I’ve got an unfounded dread of TB turning up. He won’t. Shame as there’s quite a queue who would like to have a word…

Absolute bloody nightmare. My MIL wanted to move in with us. No way! We didn’t have someone like your brother pulling the strings. I suppose he’s hoping you take the care on, she lives with you, he ensures the house isn’t used to pay care bills and he can watch day time TV each and every day. I really feel for you. Keep to your guns and keep talking to this incredible and supportive bunch of women here. It helped me so much.

@Toooldforlonghair sounds about right! The golden child wins out. You sound like an amazing caring mum. 💐

Thank you!

Mr Monkey has a very stubborn streak and for the last two weeks since the monetary questions started, he’s started digging his heels in. He’s ignoring all texts. He’s not blocked TB as it’s started to amuse him. He’s not surprised. We’re just waiting for the abusive texts to start, as the charm offensive isn’t working. The abusive texts MM had last year over The Hag’s will just confirmed what a twat he is. We didn’t hear from him again. Late BIL predicted this would happen! He actually said “he can fuck off he thinks he’s getting a penny from me.”

Love Liverpool.

Treated myself to a four star hotel. Saw Hamnet at the cinema. Just had a glorious bath. Drinking a glass of wine in bed. Feeling very relaxed.

Thanks for understanding @AttilaTheMeerkat
It was GB2, claiming to speak on behalf of himself and DM, who said that they never wanted to see me again. I agreed with him that I didn't want to communicate with him either and have had him blocked on my phone etc since then. DM got very upset as he had clearly told her she was never going to see me again. I truly believe she is in the early stages of dementia and is very suggestible. But then she has also always been very good at reinventing history. GB2 and DM both claim that there was no aggression and the comments about not seeing them came entirely from me. Nevertheless, I think I know that really you are entirely correct about leaving them to it. However, I can't stop myself feeling awful if I walked away from her entirely at this stage when she is quite vulnerable. I know that's probably a lifetime of being conditioned to doubt myself but I can't shake it. I sincerely wish I had cut contact with all of them decades ago when I went NC with GB1 and was treated as the problem. Since his death I have kept my distance but now feel I am pulled back in.

So for now, the closest I can manage to dropping the rope is just not responding to comments about how terribly difficult this all is for GB2, beyond 'Oh dear' and 'Yes, you really do need to look at other options'. I have made it very, very clear to them and to her medical teams that I absolutely cannot and will not become her carer and she cannot live with me. I have made it clear that I will help look at alternatives care/accommodation options but me and my home are not an option. I won't even offer to have her for a few days as I'm almost certain GB2 would try to leave her with me and claim we'd agreed he'd done his stint.

The flying monkeys (extended family and friends) have started contacting me on their behalf. I don't blame them- they will believe the 'public' version of our lives. Part of me would like to tell them the full truth but after so many years, and given the stories they will undoubtedly have been told by GB2 about what a nasty bitch I am, I suspect they would not believe me. Or simply say that whatever has happened in the past I somehow owe it to DM to sacrifice my life to care for her.