SEPTEMBER 2025 - Well we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

I have now set up a new thread as the previous one is now full.
This long runnning thread has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.
The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!
One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;
'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'
Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.
Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.
NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.
You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.
'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.
I started with this book and found it really useful.
Here are some excerpts:
"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.
Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.
Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:
"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.
YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".
"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.
YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".
"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."
"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"
"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."
"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."
Helpful Websites
Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat for details.
Some books:
Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa
This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:
"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

@Twatalert what you’re describing is complex PTSD. Those are flashbacks. I am so sorry that you are having flashbacks,

Mr Monkey has them and is now having heavy duty therapy to deal with it. He was having EDMR, but it’s pretty hardcore, although good, but right now he is having talking therapy as he’s not in a place to do anything else but talk. This bereavement has brought so much pain - even more pain - and I’m so angry about his fucking vile brother wanting money when he has done things like pull a GUN on Mr Monkey when he was a child.

@MonkeyfromManchester Thank you. I fully intend to press on with my awkwardness but it's difficult when Mum is now so vulnerable- I really do feel like I should have made more of a stand (which would probably have ended with going NC with the whole lot of them as I can't see any way they would see my side of the story) years ago when my parents repeatedly excused GB1 and GB2 when they treated me (and them) badly but now it feels cruel to effectively say 'You made your bed, now lie in it'. I'm trying to look out for her but retain my boundaries and the extra stress of GB2s aggression and unpredictability makes all of this harder. At the moment I actually feel physically ill each time I go over to help her as I'm never sure whether I will encounter GB2 and what stunts he will pull if I do. At the moment I am sorting all her household admin/finances and all her medical appointments etc so this is pretty frequent (these are things I took intending it to be short term but now the official line is that I promised I'd do all of this).
Your point about the myths people spout about families is spot on. I also think many people have a perception of what a dysfunctional family would look like and we don't fit that stereotype so it's easier for them to believe that I am over-reacting than to challenge that idea. My family were also very skilled at covering up and/or putting a positive spin on anything unsavoury.
I know that compared to many people I'm quite luck- I have a brilliant DH, lovely DC and a lovely MIL who all have my back. Recently I've been thinking a lot about how much less stress I would have and how much better my health and happiness would be if I simply didn't have to deal with my birth family ever again.

@awkwardcow the dilemma of caring for an elderly mother (actually, my mother in law aka The Hag) knowing all about the hideous abuse that she had subjected my partner to is what brought me to Stately Homes. I saw what a vicious person she was at first hand when she stayed with us for a total of twelve weeks across three years. It was horrible. This place saved me.

it sounds like GB2 is totally happy for you to take on everything. That physical feeling is something I know. My dentist told me that I was clenching my face so much that I was damaging my teeth. In the end I couldn’t see MIL.

Yes, people have a very fixed idea of what dysfunction is. Mr Monkey’s family was the ‘classic’ model of dysfunction e.g., violence and emotional abuse - for years he said “it wasn’t that bad and I was never hungry.” Those words broke my heart.

Like you, I think the body keeps the score. MM has very poor physical health. Obviously, his mental health is terrible, but he has a fantastic therapist. My family have embraced him. Actually, I think seeing my family at close quarters made him see his family for what it is.

He’s a wreck right now as he’s lost his eldest brother two weeks ago and his estranged older brother(Golden Boy) is being an absolute twat about the will. No great surprise there.

I don’t know what part of ‘I leave everything to MM as I hadn’t seen GB since 2015’ is difficult to understand. But I suppose if you were the golden child and therefore think you can control and manipulate everything around you that’s the way your brain works. Despite Golden Boys attempts to weasel his way back into recently deceased brother’s affections, which was only about money, via his eight year old daughter sending her 70 year old uncle a fucking friendship bracelet, there is no new will.

Mr Monkey, as Executor, has handed everything over to the solicitor to deal with.

@MonkeyfromManchester I grind my teeth too, have done since childhood. I have to wear a splint at night. I've cracked three or four of them now because I bite so hard (and my dentist said he'd never seen someone break one before). I think it's not spoken about enough, the impact that growing up in a family like this or even just dealing with these people in adulthood has on your health. As a child I remember having constant rashes and upset stomachs. I thought it was a normal part of being a child (because that's the message I got as a child - the GP could never explain it and at home it was just shrugged off as being this is how you are, a bit rubbish). Then I had my own kids, noticed that they didn't constantly have rashes and upset stomachs, and realised that it was a response to the constant stress of my home life. I don't understand now how none of the adults around me could see it. Why could no-one see what was going on? (this is a really difficult thing for me, because I am left wondering why I wasn't important or good enough for anyone to care, which is a really unhealthy place for me to dwell).

I know now that I was chronically, cripplingly anxious. It has ruined my health into adulthood. I've had multiple operations, I collect a carrier bag of medications from the chemist every month. There are multiple studies that have shown a correlation between chronic illness and ACE's in childhood. I tried to talk about this with my mother once and she just shrugged, looked away and said 'yeah, well' and that was the end of the conversation. If I take a step back I know it's because she can't face up to the fact that her choices are partly to blame for it.

Everyone focuses on our quirks and anxiety but an abusive childhood is a full body experience.

@MonkeyfromManchester Definitely a good move for MM to let the solicitor deal with Golden Boy, and hopefully once that is all sorted he will never have to see him or hear from him again. I'm fully expecting my brother to be an arsehole when it comes to dealing with anything left when mum passes. Not because he particularly will want any of her belongings (I anticipate everything she has will need to go on paying for care) or really care what we do for her funeral but because it will be one last chance to try to prove that he's in charge and to make things harder for me.
MM telling you 'it wasn't that bad' and your response resonates. My family also had violence and emotional abuse but it was from GB1 and GB2, never our directly our parents. Because publicly we appeared to be a nice middle class family my parents explanations of what was happening were always accepted without question and I grew up believing that this was normal. When I chose to cut contact with GB1 my parents and GB2 denied that any of the examples I stated happened, and agreed that 'if' there was any violence it must just have been normal sibling fighting because I was never hospitalised (they would never take me to A&E) and I they all agreed that bullying and threats of violence were just 'jokes' and he wouldn't have gone through with any of it. Recently my DD (now an adult) asked me about what GB1 did so I told her a sanitised, shortened, version of a few things fully expecting her to question whether going NC was an over-reaction. She just hugged me and told me she was sorry I went through that and no-one protected me.
I still feel incredibly guilty if I tell the truth about my childhood, because I recognise that to some extent my parents were victims too. What I can't forgive is the fact they have doubled down on denying, minimising and shifting blame. Even more recent situations, some of which DH witnessed first hand, are being denied. Until recently I'd sort of quietly distanced myself from all of then but Dad's illness/death and now mum's illness have meant I'm dragged back in to dealing with them and all the anxiety that brings.

@AmusedEyebrowthank you for sharing your experience regarding therapy. It is something I am considering but worried it will make things worse. I to wish dm to pass soon as I feel it will give me closure

when dsis dies which ideally would be before dm but not likely unfortunately i will be blasting out to myself ding dong the witches dead as I won’t be going to her funeral or arranging it. I am also hoping that her friends finally find out the truth about what she’s been doing when they go through her finances

you’re right it’s not spoken about and, maybe, that research is very recent. I don’t know enough about it, but MM was a very sickly child and has multiple illnesses. The way the abusive twats can take no responsibility is staggering.

I think your brother will play games over money. He might not need it, but it’s power play, isn’t it? I’m so sorry that you’re having to deal with GB2 because of your mother’s infirmity. It’s dragging you back in. And god, the DENIAL that anything happened and the masking that middle class families do. 🤬

I’m not sure whether he will truly ever recover. But I’m damn sure not having anything to do with Twat Brother will help immeasurably. He’s very committed to doing therapy and will go back to EDMR, but not right now as it’s so painful. Twat Brother is going to explode about the will and then it’s a case of blocking the twat forever. TB is going to have a bitter and lonely old age.

Loving the song choices!

God, I’m so tired. It’s like waiting for the sword of Damocles waiting for Twat Brother’s next move. He hasn’t got a leg to stand on, but he’s a bully. This now will be about bullying Mr Monkey.

Speaking to SIL about their split and divorce.

He abandoned her and their kids in 2014 - no contact, no support - forced his way back into the family home in 2017, tried to reconcile. She was having none of it, we reckon this was the time of his second family and the birth of his daughter. This family he abandoned in 2017 to poverty and his partner had no idea where he was and tried to track him down via his friends and then sister in law. SIL discovered existence of child at that point.

TB, realising there was no reconciliation - SIL had him forcibly removed from the house and got a restraining order in 2017 - TB then went back to family number 2, no contact and no financial support for family 1. SIL started divorce proceedings- he didn’t want a divorce apparently and made it very difficult, she then got her decree absolute. During that time he tried to take the house, no money no contact with the kids…until he said “come and meet your little sister.” Kids ignore him.

he’s a piece of work. Absolute arsehole. This is what we’re dealing with here.

After my stepdad died last year I was in a good bit of contact with one of my stepbrothers. He was messaging me asking if my son wanted to go fishing with him etc and I just said he really wasnt into it but all pleasant conversations etc. Then my mother went to Australia for a month and on and off me and stepbrother would message but then the mother came home from her hols before xmas and I heard nothing from stepbro over xmas so I reached out the other day to say hi sorry meant to text over xmas. He read the message and no reply. I assume that despite years of him not talking to my mother now he is back in contact with her since the funeral that shes been in his ear lying about me again. I dont care too much its just so frustrating knowing you are being slandered and smeared constantly to everyone with ears due to no fault of your own.

@MonkeyfromManchesteryou mentioned up thread that you have a solicitor handling the will and legal matters. Would MM be able to go NC with TB now with a final message that all communication must go to the solicitor?

@MonkeyfromManchester Sadly I think you are correct, GB2 will undoubtedly be an arsehole about money. DM wants me to have power of attorney for her (she says it's because GB2 is far too busy for having to deal with all that but I do wonder if at some level she's scared that he'd mess things up). I know I will have to keep very clear notes and records because he's bound to argue that I've somehow been dishonest. Not because he thinks I really am, just to upset me and cause me stress. He has already accused me of conning DM in to giving me 'valuables' because gave me some old appliances that she can no longer use. At the time, they were offered to him first and he turned his nose up- I only really took them to humour her because they obviously meant something to her. I have returned them and told GB2 he can have them, or sell them for her. They remain in the spare room gathering dust...

TB sounds like my GB1. He also lived a double life for several years. He chose to tell us all about it when the secret partner had a baby and was gleeful telling us about how he'd got away with it and how stupid both women were. He used emotional blackmail to bully everyone (including partner 1) in to not telling secret partner (who was entirely unaware she was the OW). Of course, he cheated on the new partner many times and was a total shit to her and their DC too. I daren't say it IRL as I know people will think I am some sort of evil uncaring psycho but his death was a huge relief to me and I have no regrets about not having had any contact with him for years before that.

I’m so sorry. Your mother sounds like an arch manipulator. I have spidey sense for BS, developed from dealings with the toxic MIL, but so few people have that antenna. And we end up suffering. Hugs to you. Xxx

@Mydoglovescheese great name! Yep, everything is via the solicitor, which MM has told the twat. TB has the solicitor details, but the will is actually confidential as MM is both executor and beneficiary until probate is sorted. Solicitor knows the situation. He does need to block him.

Yeah i have the same I can tell a manipulator a mile away now but thats years of living with the woman that calls herself my mother but honestly my son cant fart and i am proud of him - this woman far from being proud of me has tried to bring me down and make ppl think bad of me all because shes insecure. It is horrible. I guess when my brother in law queried why both of my siblings and one step siblings graduation pics were on the wall in the family home and mine werent i should have known then I was never going to be celebrated. Hurts to know your own mother would rather make you miserable than celebrate you.

im just glad there’s a will in place, and the will from toxic MIL echoes recently deceased brother’s.

GB2 views you as the lackey, doesn’t he? The accusations of dishonesty are hideous. You’re right to keep notes.

We’re laughing as TB looks down on the homeless and poor, so we’re donating white goods, telly etc to a charity for people in need. 🤣 substance abuse. TB rants about that, but takes mountains of coke and we think he’s a functioning heroin addict. Hypocrite.

GB1 sounds like the misogynistic twat that TB is. How horrible for those two women and your being a bystander. With TB, a leopard doesn’t change its spots. I hear you re telling the truth. Take care.

That’s absolutely horrible. The Hag MIL really discouraged MM going to university as a mature student. He got a first. She then putting his graduation photo up and boasted about him. Sending big hugs. Xxx

Oh I retrained as an adult too cos she had no interest in helping put me through college. God the memories I have of her putting me down and lying about me. I am a loser apparently for divorcing an abusive man and getting out of a toxic situation and then some years later I met someone else and had a baby with him but I WAS A LOSER because HE chose not to be in the childs life. I wouldnt mind I was in my 30's having my child, own home/car etc at the time and since having him went back to college to become an accountant instead of just working in accounts if you get me but nope she has something nasty to say about it all. Horrible odious woman always pitting her kids against each other.

Im usually fine but the odd time it hits me and I feel the unfairness and unjustness of it all.

This morning's cheery call from DM (whilst at work, answered in case she was having an emergency, so this will have been eye opening for nearby colleages) was to tell me how miserable I've made her with my 'silly' behaviour recently, and how unfair it is that when I should be stepping up to help GB2 (with childcare/life admin etc that DM previously did for him) I am insisting instead on making things more stressful for him.
My 'silly' recent behaviour is basically me putting up some boundaries following GB2 ramping up aggression towards me. There are numerous examples of his aggression, but the latest included him quite literally screaming obscenities at me and telling me to get out of DM's house and not come back or else. In the immediate aftermath DM excused this as him being 'just a bit upset' and he did not actually throw me out because he did not physically assault me- but apparently he had agreed that he shouldn't have said 'get out' (no apology for that, or the threats, or any of the truly awful things he said about me, my DH and my DC) so we all just need to forget it.

She is now claiming that GB2 said/did absolutely nothing wrong at all- she didn't hear him say anything unpleasant or tell me to get out. 'If' anything was said or done why would I have needed to be told to get out, surely I would have just gone home. And even if it did happen as I said, why couldn't I have just gone home, had a think about why GB2 might be so upset that this happened and helped him sort it out. So I am being silly and childish, just when she and GB2 need me to help them. This is unforgivable and clearly the fault of my DH and MIL who always wanted to tear me away from my family.

I am trying to keep to my boundaries but not react to any of this as I believe DM is in the early stages of dementia (GB2 disagrees) and the things she says sound like things he will have said to her. However, this is exactly the sort of argument (and claims against DH and MIL) that DM made years ago when I cut contact with GB1 so I can't help thinking she's just saying louder and earlier what she really thinks. Which is basically do whatever GB2 wants, put up with him behaving as he likes and don't cause trouble by complaining. If it were not for DMs illness I would walk away right now and not look back.

@awkwardcow god, I remember the calls from The Hag MIL to Mr Monkey.

He has a really stressful job working in a charity and was getting about eight calls on his mobile a day with her screaming down the phone. His colleagues couldn’t believe it, but were very supportive. In the end he said don’t phone me at work, switched his phone off, directed the Hag to ring recently deceased brother (aka Slave Son) with any emergency and, under pain of death of not giving the Hag Mr Monkey’s direct line, the brother could ring that number. She never rang SS with an emergency.

He also told his colleagues, so he didn’t feel like he looked like a bad child. His CEO and Director of Services were having the same experience, so they bonded over it. All their shame went.

it’s so frustrating / hurtful when your DM is having selective memory about GB2’s toxic behaviour, she believes the narrative she and your father created.

My advice is to get her GP involved as they may be able to refer her to social services. Even if you don’t have POA, you’ve raised it as a concerned daughter. I don’t know where you live in the postcode lottery, but in Manchester, even without a POA, social services jumped in to help.

I nagged a lot, but in the end we got adjustments to the house, access to a day centre (Hag refused to use it cos better to be miserable, isolated and angry) and an alarm pendent. She wanted this linked to us, but we said no and it went to a control centre with a key box.

I made damn sure that both her GP and social services were across her abusive behaviour and the family dynamics. I constantly cited mine (bipolar) and MM’s (CPTSD) mental health.

if the public sector isn’t great where you live, look at local charities.

MM had EXACTLY the same jealousy of my mum (his MIL) and me as MM’s DP. It was constant. One of my final memories of the Hag was her screaming “she’s not my family” at me in a hospital ward. I got up and walked. We point blank refused to take any further responsibility for her, beyond hospital visits.

Guilt is a powerful thing. Abusers use it to coerce you. Keep your boundaries and spend as little time with them as possible. Get as much outside help as you can.

my experience was abusers get worse and more entitled as they age. Take care. Xxxx

I remember all your posts when hag was in the last few months of her life. I often thought how admirable it was you did not put a pillow over her toxic mouth. She really really was a cruel nasty waste of oxygen.

Awkward cow

I would no longer accept her calls at work. Keep boundaries by all means but you accepting her phone call is a reaction/response and that is the reward to such disordered of thinking people like your mother.

what makes you think she is in the early stages of dementia?. You may well be wide of the mark here.

People from dysfunctional families end up
playing roles. What is gb2s role here, what is yours?.

Your parents always favoured your brothers over you and by dint of fact that you’re female you are now further being lined up by her to be her carer. Resist this at all costs. Gb2 is not going to help you nor his mother and I would think the only thing that interests him is an inheritance from her estate.

I would not take on any power of attorney responsibility whatsoever given your dysfunctional family of origin. They’re beset with problems at the best of times to administer let alone for dysfunctional families like the one you got born into. This will be yet more work for you and many people really underestimate the sheer amount of work and legal responsibilities involved. Personally I would walk away from both your mother and gb2 and I know that is easier said than done. But these two between them will continue to drag you down so drop the rope.

It is ok to walk away and with you out if the picture hopefully they will further turn against each other.