SEPTEMBER 2025 - Well we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

I have now set up a new thread as the previous one is now full.
This long runnning thread has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.
The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!
One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;
'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'
Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.
Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.
NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.
You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.
'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.
I started with this book and found it really useful.
Here are some excerpts:
"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.
Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.
Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:
"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.
YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".
"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.
YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".
"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."
"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"
"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."
"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."
Helpful Websites
Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat for details.
Some books:
Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa
This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:
"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Just a brief check in to say I had a fabulously quiet christmas just me and my son and pets. No mother drama at all. It was fantastic. I spoke to my father and sister (both abroad) and my brother stopped talking to me years ago because of her triangulation but he also cut off my child which is vile but not surprising really as thinking it through he has never had respect for me so clearly would never have done for my son. Not one other person bar my stepfamily contacted me so clearly still spineless flying monkeys doing the narcs duty but they are nothing to me now and never will be. Genuinely I look better and feel better since removing that woman from my life. The toxicity has left me and it is so refreshing. Just saying that for anyone else going through it - it hurts like hell but the peace you feel over the years is the best outcome.

This is coming up very soon now, and I’m getting increasingly nervous. 😬 I wish I could just make a decision about whether to actively avoid her or actually to find her, seek her when I feel ready, say hello, be polite do grey rock type thing and feel more adult and in control, or is the second thing pointless? Will I feel I’ve been a coward/victim/child if I do the avoiding/hiding?

I personally would go and would ignore. I would not want, for the sake of sibling and child, to do anything which could potentially be used to start a fight/cause a scene. Let your mother make the first move, if at all. (is it a wedding, BTW?)

I would focus on the fact that the celebration is for someone else and the most important thing is that it goes well for them. If this requires you to feel like a coward, oh well. You can cope with that.

I would also look at getting help with managing the anxiety now, before the event. Stay calm, have good judgement, avoid a scene.

Thank you very much for your response and advice. It isn’t a wedding, no. It’s a double milestone birthday. It’s absolutely right what you say about making sure the event stays about the birthday people only, of course, and they are both very much loved by me. No way would I indulge any kind of scene!

I am in a weird place at the moment, sleep has gone to pot a bit because my brain won't switch off, but basically I am sitting with how I feel about my mother ignoring my kids at xmas and what might be the end of our relationship - I've suspected for a long time that my stepfather was effectively managing her behaviour and stopped a lot of nasty comments and tantrums from being directed my way over the years. I don't know if I care that she may have cut me off. I don't know if I'm upset by it. I'm not sure I am.

I just need to vent like many of us here about my Xmas experience with my in-laws. All was going well until they started being so cruel about their niece’s children. They started spouting off with glee about how the youngest ‘definitely has something wrong with him’ ‘you should see him, he looks Irish with ginger hair and sticky out ears’ It then transpired that this child is only 3, not only that but they’ve never met him either. This is all from a photo. It was the glee on their faces that got me. The chance that someone else’s life might be worse than theirs, revelling in other’s misery. They have an autistic grandson themselves, they’d hate other people to talk about him like that.

Horrible horrible people.

If she’s cut you off it might be the gift you have needed! No need to be in contact and if that’s been her choice, no guilt either, so win win!

@DaisyYellowGold I have seen this in my mother actually and to an extent my brother. They seem to love finding fault in others, makes them feel superior which again is a win for a narc as their lives are one miserable internal competition after another. That said we Irish are not all red heads and it is a beautiful colour for those who are but certainly not known for ear issues lol I see what they are at though - any dismissal of another takes the heat off them. Sad and pathetic but this is who they are.

My mother is a bit like this. She also likes to complain about everything. I have to admit that I used to do it to because I didn't realise it wasn't normal and it's how she has conversations with people, it's what she focuses on. It becomes a habit. I don't do it any more. Just constant negativity.

It's all so weird. She has been so awful to me, said such terrible things, tried to start arguments. She's persistently mean. She's said awful things about my DH (to my face, behind his back) over the years. DH doesn't know. She's been awful about my kids. They don't know either. I'm fairly certain she's a functioning alcoholic but I've never criticised the drinking. I've let so many things slide by unchallenged. What I have done is make myself unavailable and I've stopped offering help. I don't call, I don't visit. The relationship has been reduced to the occasional text message. I think what I'm struggling with is feeling like I am the one in the wrong but I know this is an old childhood pattern talking.

So basically, how can you behave like this and then be surprised/pissy that someone doesn't want to have much to do with you?

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/encore-s03-ep-13-melanies-difficult-mother/id1523340696?i=1000574742250

I found this quite interesting - advice offered is limited but worth a listen anyway

Crazylizzards

re your comment
"So basically, how can you behave like this and then be surprised/pissy that someone doesn't want to have much to do with you?"

Disordered of thinking people like your mother think they have done nothing wrong here and or think that their target of abuse has somehow deserved it.

And feeling that you are in the wrong here somehow is indeed old patterns talking. You need radiators in your life, not drains so good on you for making yourself far less available now to her. You may want to consider seeing a therapist re your mother if you do not already see such a person.

@AttilaTheMeerkat I've had some therapy, but I suspect I probably need to do more in the future. At the moment it doesn't feel like the right time. I'm still processing a lot of things from the therapy I've had.

The feeling I have is that for a long time, my stepfather put a lid on her behaviour and told her you can't say that, do not try to start that argument, we are not raising that when we visit. So I suspect that a lot of stuff went unchallenged (by her) which also makes me suspect that he knew exactly why I didn't call or visit. What she would say when he wasn't in the room was noticeably different to what she'd say in his earshot. It got to the point where I did everything I could not to be alone with her. Now he's gone and that barrier has been removed. She was kind and nice at first, when she was unmoored and uncertain (which made me really uncomfortable, tbh), but it didn't last. When things settled, the unkindness came back.

I need a maternal figure who is kind, generous and good humoured. My mother isn't and will never be that person (if she was, I wouldn't have the mother wound in the first place). My mother can't help me carry the weight of the damage she herself has caused. That's the root of the pain, really, isn't it? We either deny the natural instinct to turn to mother for comfort, which hurts, or we turn to mother and she hurts us.

We need to learn to mother ourselves. So, speaking kindly to ourselves in a voice from a good nurturing mother. When our inner voice is self critical, stepping in with a kinder voice.

Checking in. I’ve posted previously on Mumsnet under a different username about my family situation, but have name changed because the details I provided were outing. But to summarise briefly, my brother is very much the golden child. His child is therefore the favourite grandchild by default. And me and my children are bottom of the family hierarchy. And I firmly belief that my brother and his partner are manipulating my parents for financial reasons.

I know, and I am trying. I think it's the fact that it's not one person in the family, it's the family. So dealing with the fact that my father was just an awful human being, then realisingI can't turn to my mother, no sibling relationships, no extended family either. Probably feeling a bit sorry for myself tbh

I've lurked on this thread for a long while (years!) while very often nodding along with the very familiar sounding dramas. I'm too drained to type much (I perhaps will going forward) but just wanted to get a few words out as I've had such a draining, traumatic, triggering, unpleasant, soul-destroying and utterly joyless NYE because of narc family. It is a totally bizarre set-up that I can't even begin to explain. I've actually had a few days of the horrific behaviour but today/tonight was the worst and I only have myself to blame for being in the thick of it, I suppose. As usual I felt I was 'doing the right thing' by spending time with the people in question (guilt) but it's virtually destroyed me (not so easy to leave rn). Never again. When will I learn? More to the point, how do you learn - or rather, break away from the fear/guilt etc. The tendrils run deep. Anyway... happy New Year to anyone who's reading. I hope it was peaceful and calm.

I'm sorry this is your reality too. There are several ways to get away, but they all involve handling the guilt. Some just have a final straw moment and don't go back. It sounds like this isn't the case for you.

Others work with a therapist or perhaps do it on their own to gradually put boundaries in place and be able to deal with the arising feelings. Basically, what small thing can you do that may upset them but that would result in a smaller dose of guilt for you that you may actually be able to handle? You'd have to sit through the guilt and anxiety I'm afraid, not act on it, but do it litter and often step by step.

The medium thing for me would have been not returning a missed phone call. It would set me off and I would need days to calm down.

I don't know how unhinged yours are but if they are likely to completely escalate you'd be much better off having a therapist to do it with you.

Thanks so much for your reply - I appreicate it. Great name btw! Yeah the guilt is horrendous. It's been embedded in me from a very young age (I'm 50s now) - I'm sure it's the same for most of us. The awful thing is, that I'm only just properly seeing it. I mean, I knew something wasn't right, but some stuff has recently come to light from the past that's been like an 'aha' moment for me.
I like your idea about the 'mini tests' and working up. In fact, I inadvertently did that last night when I bailed out of the 'merriment' (I'd have lost my shit otherwise - though believe me, there was no actual merriment). I've not seen them so far today, but I know my punishment for not partaking will come somehow - maybe silent treatment/digs/comments etc. Feigning imminent death/heart clutching is a common one (I remember that one from when I was a kid, constantly being told they were about to have a heart attack). Or the inevitable 'Am I ok because I was behaving strangely last night and who could possibly want to miss out on the fun and go to bed early?'
I punished myself though as I was awake til 3am from the guilt... they're old/won't be around much longer/I'll regret what I did/I'm not understanding enough etc etc. I'm trying not to feel too low about how NY has begun - rather using it as a way to see how the rest of my life will NOT look. And I hear you about the missed phone calls and needing days to calm down/recover. This dose of narcrap will take me a couple of weeks to shake off. I'm not too familiar with everyone's stories here yet, but I hope you've had a peaceful holiday time.

Oh, and how unhinged are they...? Hmm. In a word, very. Think Saltburn meets Succession (but with fortunes mainly lost now - just the haunting relics/ruins left) stirred up with your 'common-or-garden' 70s sleaze that a certain type once got away with. These people need their own '... Files' or '... Gate' naming after them.

When I first found this thread, my jaw dropped when I read why it was named 'Stately Homes'. I had the exact same thing, and even now I'm regularly reminded of why my childhood was 'not that bad'... Except instead of being taken to stately homes, insert any number of rich person privileges/expensive toys/experiences which surely should have made a childhood filled with abuse/neglect/disinterest seem just tickety-boo.

@spookyactionwoman they sound extremely unhinged. Some of what you said triggered me because mine would play the same tricks. Especially the one of not understanding enough is what messed with me for so long. They sound horrible and i wonder if going cold turkey would be best. You'd still need support with it. It's no bad thing if you can afford it.

I am feeling a bit down today it’s ds 21 birthday and for various reasons it’s been a quiet one and i feel bad. He didn’t even know what he wanted for Christmas let alone his birthday I made suggestions a watch new bike jacket etc he said he wouldn’t use them. He had new trainers smelly aftershave etc for Christmas is no longer into branded tracksuits and doesn’t next any technology. I bought him some gifts and a keepsake picture related to his hobby but it doesn’t look much He was planning to go away with his gf next week for a city break i offered the spending money but he split up with her a month ago he was planning to go on his own but now isn’t he is going away with his friends later on in the year so the offer paying is still there

he didn’t want a party which I am slightly relieved at as we are nc with dsis dm and family friends who were at his 18th have taken sides plus a few deaths on dh side it would only be a few of his friends many that he works with in hospitality and couldn’t get the time off hence him having to postpone his holiday as they can’t get the time off work

i don’t know why I am posting I certainly didn’t expect any acknowledgment for his special birthday as there has been nothing for 3 years for either of my dc dsis somehow even managed to pocket his trust fund dm set up for him as it matured in the midst of this drama

Ah sorry to hear this @spendysis I think you must feel disappointed? It's during these milestones that it really stands out that we don't have the wider family we hoped for, and for our kids to have that wider sense of belonging. And even harder if we can't compensate in other ways, e.g.if your son isn't in to gifts.

But it sounds like you are there for your son, and care for his wellbeing and happiness. That will mean a huge amount when others are letting him down, or when things aren't playing out the way he expected. Perhaps he will remember that - the empathy and love you have, and you never know, there maybe mini celebrations ahead.

Saddens me too that just because a family member is not in contact with you that they take it out on your kids. I have a 15 year old who hasnt even had a happy birthday text off my brother in two years let alone a gift all because he doesnt talk to me (as a direct result of my mothers shitstirring and lies I might add) but he has chosen to cut my child out of his life totally too. He himself has kids but they are small so I would have no way to contact them but obviously my son has a phone and could be contacted just the brother chooses not to. They dont seem to care how much the child feels hurt or isolation. Sorry you and your son are going through this it really is heartbreaking.

happy new year to you all, I hope you managed to have an OK Xmas with toxic family members or were OK with being NC.

Some of you might remember me from 2020 - 2024 when I was posting - practically everyday - about my toxic coercive narcissist mother in law The Hag and the damage she was still doing aged 86 to my lovely partner after she’d been physically and emotionally abusive throughout his childhood.

Add to the mix, his disabled half brother who was de facto husband / slave known as Slave Son who had NO life as she dominated and terrorised him and then Bastard Brother / Golden Boy who was abusive (physically, sexually and mentally) to his ex-wife, our gorgeous sister in law.

The Hag died in February 2023 after making our lives even more hellish as she got iller and frailer. I’d pretty much gone NC and Mr Monkey was LC and thinking about NC.

Golden Boy had disappeared in about 2017 when sister in law divorced him, he then tried to take the house - his kids’ home - paid no maintenance for his kids and made no contact with them. GB didn’t contact the Hag.

very sadly Slave Son died very suddenly yesterday or possibly Saturday and was found by two friends yesterday morning.

Mr Monkey rang GB to let him know. No answer - no surprise - as the last time GB was in touch was last spring when he wrote MM a succession of vile texts because The Hag left her money to MM. No more contact after that.

The entitlement of the wanker knows no bounds. After the years of being a very successful man - Porsche, offshore accounts - he fell on hard times, possibly due to embezzling his business partner.

He also told people The Hag was dead we subsequently found. The Hag was very much alive then.

He’s a Fucking charmer.

His behaviour has so affected his younger son that he has severe depression and tried to take his own life last year.

During the call we had peak performance of caring brother ‘I spoke to him on Xmas Day’.

In family number 2, GB has married a woman from the Philippines who he’s lined up to be his carer. They have a girl of about eight. Obviously, family 2 overlapped with family 1.

Little girl is being used as the ‘in’ with Slave Son, doubtless to manoeuvre the arsehole back into the family. As he’s not in touch with his two sons, this will only be about £.

But….He won’t be getting any as Slave Son has left all his money to MM. Doubtless, we will receive more abuse about that.

was there an offer to help with practicalities? Was there a message today? Was there fuck.

So, today was going to Slave Son’s house to get paperwork. The house is the most depressing place. Last decorated in the 80s, peeling wallpaper, broken furniture. Going into his bedroom was heartbreaking as he slept in a single bed; the Hag made sure that his last relationship was in the 80s.

Mr Monkey is absolutely exhausted by it all. If only I had GB’s number as I would love to phone the twat.