SEPTEMBER 2025 - Well we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

I have now set up a new thread as the previous one is now full.
This long runnning thread has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.
The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!
One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;
'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'
Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.
Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.
NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.
You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.
'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.
I started with this book and found it really useful.
Here are some excerpts:
"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.
Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.
Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:
"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.
YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".
"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.
YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".
"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."
"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"
"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."
"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."
Helpful Websites
Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat for details.
Some books:
Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa
This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:
"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Roserunner

Do not acknowledge this so called gift (so calked because it’s not wanted and is loaded with obligation) from them in any way. What they want from you is a response and that is their reward. Replying is a response as is sending it back. It opens a door of communication that should remain closed. Do not fall for such hoovering attempts.

Dispose of it how you see fit (give it into a charity shop) and think no more of it. Do not give it any more power than it already has.

patchwork owl

I’ve had a look too and there is currently no annex thread on the other page.

Rose runner

Your parents also used your sibling here as a flying monkey. Such people are usually well meaning friends or relatives of the target (you in this case ) who are manipulated by the toxic parents into doing their bidding. They also have their own agenda and do not want to hear your side of things so you will not get far with them. You now know they cannot be relied upon.

@Roserunner you don't have a moral duty to acknowledge the present or 'do right'. Presumably you have communicated you are NC. This is them violating your boundaries and testing the waters. If you engage in any way you will begin to be emotionally involved a tiny bit.

Also, please know that whatever you do will be wrong in their eyes. So you can't do the right thing anyway. Best to donate the present or take it to a charity shop. Or sell it and donate the money. Anything that keeps you emotionally detached from them. Away with it and onwards with your peaceful life.

Thank you, that's really helpful. We're worried they will think we're accepting their gifts (money) if we don't return it or say something. But as you say whatever we do we can't win. No response is probably the best thing we can do. It's DCs birthday in a few weeks as well so don't know if they will do it again then as well.

I don't blame my sibling for bringing the present, they felt awkward handong it over. To be honest I was surprised that they had told my parents they were seeing us as usually they don't to keep the peace.

@Roserunner you can't control what they think and obsess about. Important is that you do what you want to do. Because you want to and not because 'so they don't think xyx'. That's you being out there trying to manage them, which you came to the realisation you couldn't when you went NC. They will think whatever according to their own preoccupations.

Your sibling needs to grow a bit of a backbone and say they won't accept presents to be passed onto someone else. My parents did this too. I don't have to the kind of relationship with my brother to be able to address it (he's v enmeshed and has a track record of dismissing and gaslighting me), so if he does it again I will just take it and dispose of/donate/definitely not keep it.

Morning all. On Christmas Eve I wanted to share my story with people who understand. I finally cut off my mother 2 years ago after she decided it acceptable to openly slag off my disabled child in earshot of me and other relatives on Christmas Day. My son is autistic and had been amazingly well behaved visiting a relatives’ house for Christmas, just quiet and keeping himself to himself. Enough was enough and I realised at that point I had to protect my son from the damage my mother had already caused to me over my life.

I have been free from my mothers’ demands for the past two years, and have left her to the two flying monkeys; my dad and brother. I also had life changing talking therapy this year and not only understand my mother better (childhood trauma) but also exposed and came to terms with numerous occasions my dad siding with my mum over me. Sadly too, he had failed at being a supportive father for the supposed ‘easy life.’ That approach hasn’t really worked out as he’s now being abused living with my mum in old age, but decides not to leave her.

I wanted to share my story to show that you can cut these people out of your life and the world won’t cave in. I sometimes still feel sad about the past, but understand it so much more and feel at peace with the situation. I am focused on the future and making my sons’ life trauma free!

Love and best wishes to you all navigating these extremely difficult relationships, especially at Christmas.

Merry Christmas everyone. Hope you've had the best day for you, whatever your situation.

Merry xmas all, hope we're all getting through Christmas as best we can, and finding some joy in it somewhere. Xmas here has been good and low stress (after last year, when my mother invited herself and I said yes b/c the training kicked in and I tried to tell myself that it was the right thing to do, but then she was rude and spent the whole time complaining. She doesn't even seem to be aware that she's doing it or how it might land with other people). I admit that this year I've made minimal effort. Tried to stick to what's polite. Card and then text on the day. I wished her happy xmas and her reply was 'thanks.' Didn't ask how I was, didn't ask how kids are, didn't wish us happy xmas in return. So I don't even warrant normal, polite interactions now. I think our relationship, what was left of it, has died, and I feel like I am the one who has killed it by withholding my services as a support human. She wants things from me, but offers nothing in return, and she centres herself, always. 'This stressful thing you are dealing with is very stressful for me and you need to support me through your difficult time.'
But without that it seems like there's nothing left. I'm of no use. I'm left questioning how much of my relationship with her as a child existed because I provided support human services, and if that was the reason why I ended up providing them in the first place, becoming a people pleaser. I've started questioning whether or not fear of abandonment was an issue b/c the alternative was my father.

@Crazylizzards it was similar contact with my mum except she messaged me first with just a "Merry Christmas all" I replied with a photo of DDs and wished her a lovely day, which she didn't acknowledge, she just said she was having a friend round.

I later spoke to my DB who was enjoying his first xmas ever without my mum. He's 35. He and his partner we're having just the two of them. I did not ask how that came about. Can't imagine it being my mum's idea. I'm glad he has stepped up and made that decision though.

@SlowSloths it's weird, isn't it? For years, I used to sometimes send my mother a photo of my youngest doing whatever random thing he was doing, and she never responded to a single one. TBH there was some history there - she was all over the eldest like a rash, to the point where it actually got quite uncomfortable (she used to 'joke' that eldest was really her child) but she was openly disinterested in the youngest right from the start and didn't seem to care who noticed. It was one of the final nails in the coffin. I don't know how/why she did it. It has been made undeniably clear to me over the past decade that she's not actually interested in either of them now.

I think we expect them to have interest in our children and it's hard to accept that they don't. But I think it's more common than people let on. I think a lot of people are just not interested in their grand children. But then a lot of people aren't interested in their children, are they.

Crazylizzards

Sounds like your mother is a narcissist who has gone onto scapegoat you with the result also being your children are scapegoated too. These roles are all interchangeable. She definitely favoured your eldest child (the golden child, itself a role not without price) over your youngest back then and that is typical of what narcissists do. Narcissistic grandparents make for being deplorably bad as grandparents and they tend to either over value or under value the relationship with the grandchild. the best thing to do with parents like this is to basically have nothing to do with them; its not possible to have a relationship with a narcissist.

I think a lot of grandparents are interested in their kids but they are emotionally healthy as people so take a healthy interest. My mother was never all that interested in being a grandparent (her view was been there and done that) so only saw DS occasionally. She never attended the school nativity play or sports day or anything like that; I used to go on my own. Now she is on her own and DS is now an adult; he has very little to do with her now.

@AttilaTheMeerkat It's true that eldest was treated as a golden child, so to speak, but I don't think it was ever about eldest personally. I don't think her interest was real. She told me once that she liked babies but by about 18 months, children became boring and difficult. She never had interest in the youngest and made no effort to hide it. My kids don't know this. My mother didn't send them anything for christmas and I know I should have expected it, and I know it's trivial and who cares about a relative they in reality barely know, but I feel so embarrassed and hurt. I am again in the position where she's proving things that before I only suspected.

Am I allowed to scream on here?

AAAAAARRRRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHHH!!!!!!!

My fucking mother!!!!!

Spiteful, selfish, self-absorbed, lying, manipulative, self-serving, delusional woman who never stops playing the victim!

I can’t bear it. I really, really cant!

I can’t work out if everything is one big game to her or whether she’s is so messed up that she actually believes the lies she peddles to people and the stories she creates?

Sorry. I just needed to get that off my chest.

I hope you all had a lovely Christmas and that your fucked up relatives didn’t try and ruin it for you xx

She probably liked very young children because they were an ideal source of narc supply and they did not answer her back nor question her.

It was both terrible and very narcissistic of her to say that by 18 months such become boring and difficult!. She is the boring and difficult one here; not these children.

I would think that sadly your children are aware that she has no interest in them but fortunately they are not all that bothered about her anyway. You have been wise to keep yourself and your kids well away from her. Your sense of embarrassment in particular is misplaced; it is she who should be embarrassed here, not you. You're the ACON; the adult child of a narcissist who has received the Special Training to put her needs and wants first with your own dead last.

Drop the rope here and have nothing more to do with her is my counsel now.

You're allowed. Hugs.

Yes, my children know. It's so obvious. I really struggle with my mother. I think I've said before that father was definitely narc and she enabled a lot of it. I don't know what is driving her behaviour, though I would say she's childish and often very selfish. TBH all this feels in some way inevitable. My gut feeling is that my stepfather was managing the behaviour behind the scenes - so he in his own way protected me from the worst of her behaviour and that kept the relationship going. Without that it would have reached this point years ago.

I had the most peaceful Christmas of my life. I spent a few away from family but I hadn't sorted my shit out so I felt crap. Not this year. But now a feeling of doom has set in. Nothings changed, so I guess it's old stuff.

@Twatalert I think it's really common, it's normal, and it gets said a lot, but it will pass. I was watching something the other day from school of life and Alain De Botton said basically, loads of people don't like their family, don't like spending time with them, find them difficult, have negative feelings about supposedly happy holidays, and it's normal to not enjoy christmas and this time of year, so feeling this way is nothing to worry about, and I found that really helpful.

My first Christmas since DParent cut me out after I set firm boundaries. I was told I was selfish and I would be miserable by DP when they decided to drop me. This has been the least stressful Christmas I’ve ever had. I feel some guilt around that but the relief of not being on eggshells and being at someone’s beck and call is unbelievable. DP cut me out a few years ago when I tried to set a boundary and then tried to reconcile before Christmas, so I was on tenterhooks waiting for that to occur but this time they are clearly trying to punish me for a bit longer or they now believe I’m not as controllable as they thought?

I’m so sorry to read this. I live with a clinical psychologist who often tells me my mother and others like yours are very likely to have a personality disorder! It’s still not an excuse for the damage they cause!

Please take care of yourself, I’ve spent so many years having to take time to ‘get over’ Christmas.

I have taken years to create calm dignified distance from narc sister. For years this wound her up that her disruptive behaviour escalated - but eventually subsided when the grey rock technique kicked in. She now takes a week to respond to the 3 texts a year on her and her sons birthdays. However this year I had a to inform her of my very recent cancer diagnosis and she insisted on visiting. I said I am not having visitors over the holiday period as very shocked and exhausted after undergoing for tests then waiting for results over the last month. I have not heard from her since, no Christmas wishes etc - despite 3 further texts from me. She’s clearly feeling snubbed and happy to punish me at this time. My concern is that she will now smear me to my friends and family (her usual MO) as being difficult and rejecting her. Stunned that she has gone this low.

I'm sorry to hear about your diagnosis. It's a tough thing to deal with.

With regards to your sister - I would say first off, if you can, try not to spend time playing possible scenarios out in your head or trying to figure out how she's feeling or why she's behaving as she is, because you don't know, so whatever you figure out is conjecture. There will be things happening in her life that you don't know about because you're not part of her life, any more than she is part of yours. Right now you need to focus on yourself.

Whatever she's thinking, it's not that big a deal. It's not a serious problem in the grand scheme of things. You can't control what she tells other people, or what they think of it. If she's pissed off, fine. Whatever. Not your problem. You have a distant occasional text message relationship, which is barely a relationship at all, let's be honest. I know, however, that reducing the relationship to this, whilst helpful in many ways, can leave a lot of big feelings unresolved. I have a similar relationship with my mother and a single text can send me spiralling for days, because so many things have been left unsaid, because I feel unable and unwilling to voice them due to the damage it would cause, and at the same time unable to have more of a relationship with her with those things still unsaid. I can't say them, I can't stand to be in the same room with her because I can't say them.

When you told her about your diagnosis, what response were you hoping for/expecting?

This was my first Christmas that I haven’t spent with my mom so I have felt a lot of guilt about that (she spent it on her own), and I’ve had to cope with her telling lies about me to family as well as making lots of passive aggressive posts on her social media sites all aimed at me etc and it’s just been draining and difficult.

I'm screaming with you, I'm sorry that you're having a crap time of it too but I just wanted to say that reading your post made me feel seen as it is pretty much exactly how I've been feeling. Especially relate to the part about not knowing whether it's just a big game - I've spent the last 3 months desperately trying to work out if my dad is just actually completely incapable of understanding any normal human emotions and interactions and therefore I can't really be angry with him, or if there is real manipulation and vindictiveness behind it.... ultimately I've decided it doesn't even matter as the effect on me is still the same, it doesn't matter WHY he consistently violates my boundaries but that he does. Actually scared to post any specifics here as so paranoid he could somehow find it, but it helps to know I'm not alone. I'm sorry you're going through it too, and to everyone else having to deal with this.