SEPTEMBER 2025 - Well we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

I have now set up a new thread as the previous one is now full.
This long runnning thread has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.
The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!
One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;
'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'
Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.
Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.
NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.
You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.
'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.
I started with this book and found it really useful.
Here are some excerpts:
"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.
Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.
Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:
"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.
YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".
"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.
YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".
"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."
"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"
"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."
"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."
Helpful Websites
Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat for details.
Some books:
Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa
This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:
"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

I wouldn't say that my DM is abusive when she does it, as I'm an adult not a child and can understand where she’s coming from. Nevertheless, in reality it is to fulfil a need in her, not me, as I've made it clear to her that I don't hold her responsible for the CSA my DSis and I went through. I blame my F, where the blame belongs.

I feel that she confides in me sometimes because she has no one else that she feels she can confide in. My DSis is less willing to tolerate it - probably because she has better boundaries than I do.

@LizzieW1969 Hopefully this is just a 'quirk' and you are good otherwise. I don't think that having a few bad habits is abusive either. It would be abusive towards an actual child though as this is classic parentification where the child will end up feeling responsible for the parent's emotional state and then start to try and manage it. The child has to abandon its own needs in this case, which is problematic.

I have found that one of the main breakers in my relationship with my mother now is that I have lost the ability to pretend that I like her and that everything is fine and that she was a good parent. I've stopped being able to force myself to see things from her POV and abandon my own in order to create a narrative in which she's blameless. I've lost my empathy, I suppose.

Hello all, hoping you'll accept a straggler who has joined in once before.
Just wrote out a long background then realised it doesnt matter: emotionally immature parent, supposedly 'changed' but just replaced anger and bad mood stemming from depression/bad childhood/laziness and no interest in actual parenting... with saying all the right things but still being totally self centered and wanting a close relationship despite having no foundation for one, unable to communicate other than in 'banter', says 'families need to be honest' but then reacts to (always gentle) honesty with sulking/passive aggression/tears and thinks 'people should be more open with their feelings because mental health' ie. How dare you not comfort me when ive upset you.

Parent has been showing signs of age related issues despite not being elderly and wants sympathy and comfort which I am not capable of giving because to put it simply: they have exhausted my sympathy for them. They have been talking about gifting me and my siblings their home, because it will prop up their image to the world as a devoted generous father, but sees any highlighting of potential issues (of which there are many, to the point where its a bad idea for everyone involved) as us being ungrateful, which they then use to play the 'im so sad, im just trying to do something nice and you are ripping it apart' for which they expect comfort, despite them continuously throughout my life ruining my good news with 'banter' or passive aggressive comments.

I guess I just wanted to see if anyone else has the same. The banter, the sulking, the 'trying' that you are simply exhausted with.

I have just written my own post but I relate to this so much. My cup is empty. And now my parent is experiencing physical/mental health struggles and I look heartless.

I think this is the process of getting real and drop the act & you have probably developed more empathy for yourself, which is the main goal.

Yup. Now is my turn. I'm done dancing around my parents. I can't take it anymore. It's like a wall went up in front of me. There was a moment when I knew I was done. I'm out for myself now to live my life how I want to.

@Thundertoast are you in a position in which you could just decline the gift? I realise this would also be met with sulking or similar. I think anything you will do to draw a line willl result in that reaction and you better focus on managing your feelings around that so you can cope with it.

I just feel like she leaned on me so much as a child, and even afterwards because her needs always had to be centred (I was allowed needs, but only if they matched her needs). I'm the one she rang when her husband had an affair, shrieking down the phone at me multiple times a day. I was 21. WTF was she expecting from me? It has, at times, been like trying to deal with the dramatics of a teenage daughter when I was myself a young adult and barely knew up from down. And then being dropped once she had a better offer but having nowhere to go with the distress I felt as a result of her emotional dumping. I see the child I was, now, so convinced I was responsible and mature and able to handle all these things, and all I can think is how backwards all that was. I can remember telling the support worker at uni that my mother was ringing me all the time because of her marital problems and that I didn't know what to do, and the support worker being utterly shocked and saying this is not your problem, she should not be burdening you with this or trying to get you to fix it. It was the first time anyone had ever said that to me and I really struggled to process it at the time but I can understand it now.

I will be declining the gift, yes, as will the other siblings. Parent will sulk and call us unreasonable, but aside from the financial implications that will 100% happen from it (which they will wave away as they will just see 'but you will have xxxxxx thousand when I pass away' and not accept that its irrelevant what happens in 30 years if we cannot afford how we would lose out financially in the interim) there are also implications if parents life plan goes wrong... they will say 'id never put you in x position' but the reality is legally we'd be liable and none of us can afford that happening - they would just repeat 'but I wouldnt let that happen' like a child...
I suspect I will have to write a letter outlining the issues so they have it in writing and I can then go 'its all in that letter, happy to reopen the discussion if you have found a different option that protects everyone involved' and then 'im not discussing this anymore' as otherwise they will twist the narrative to their reality and be passive aggressive about it forever. A letter is more concrete - its not something ive tried before and might actually get through to them, whereas in verbal communication they are so reactive and focused on being right/feeling rejected they simply do not have room for facts or points of view.

A letter, no matter how carefully worded, could be used against you by them. They will see your words as an attack and will react accordingly. Regardless it will not get through to them. Nothing will.

It's that saying - you can't reason someone out of something they've not reasoned themselves into.

I think what we often miss with parents who behave this way is that they are driven by the emotional part of their brain, not the logical part. Their inner five year old is in charge and calling the shots. One of the jobs of growing up is to shift to the logical brain being in charge of the five year old. Some people are more successful at this than others for various reasons.

But you can't fight emotion with logic, and emotion can be very powerful (and convenient, because it's frequently used as an excuse and to shirk responsibility for their actions, isn't it?)

So you can write letters full of reasoned arguments until you're blue in the face but they won't make any difference.

Small update on my mother and 'present-gate'. She's received my parcel. She has once again settled on a bank transfer for all of us, including my birthday, which happens to be a big one. But, just like previous years she has asked me to buy something specific for my inlaws. She's given me the name of the item, the price and the shop i should buy it from. She will transfer me the money.

So, she's navigated a website and selected something for my husband's parents (Although won't follow through and order it herself) but she won't even spend any time or effort thinking what I or her grandchildren would like. I'd be happy if she bought me a box of chocolates and the DC would be chuffed with a colouring book.

It's honestly not about the gift. It's the effort and the fact that she has this weird hierarchical order of who is deemed worthy of those efforts. My husband's parents and even one of his grandparents are considered more important.

It is her inner competitive monkey doing this to make you feel inferior.

People like that have to push someone else down so that they stay afloat emotionally.

@SlowSloths whatever the reason for her behaviour, I've found that it's almost always about them and how it makes them feel, our feelings are invisible and irrelevant.

What does she get out of sending a present to the inlaws (I would assume it's proof that she's a good person)?

I also wanted to ask what would happen if you transferred the money back and told her to do it herself, and why you don't do this. What are you afraid of?

Mum hasn't transferred the money as yet. So I've replied to her message with a link and said 'It's available to order on the website'.

I've filled MiL in and she's told me absolutely not to buy it. She sends my mum flowers every Christmas, but she doesn't involve me, she does it herself.

Yes, Mum probably gets something for inlaws to make her look like a good person and because MiL sends her something. It's keeping up appearances basically.

SlowSloths

Make this the last year you buy her anything. your mother is an out and out narcissist and she is buying stuff for your in-laws to show them she is a "good person". Her behaviour around gift giving is typical of how narcissistic people behave re such.

Drop the rope and play no more part in your mother's ongoing facade management.

Narcissists are truly crap gift givers. Narcissists give gifts with an eye to maintaining a relationship with the giver and to maintaining control in that relationship.

Narcissists totally lack empathy, so they don't know what you want or like and, evidently, they don't care either; second, they think their opinions are better and more important than anyone else's, so they'll give you what they think you ought to want, regardless of what you may have said when asked what you wanted for your birthday/Christmas; third, they're stingy and will give as gifts stuff that's just lying around their house, such as possessions that they no longer have any use for, or in really choice instances return to you something that was yours in the first place. In fact, as a practical matter, the surest way NOT to get what you want from a narcissist is to ask for it as your chances are better if you just keep quiet, because every now and then the narcissist will hit on the right thing by random accident.

@AttilaTheMeerkat that's really interesting to me, because both my parents were terrible at giving gifts.

My mother always needs control over it, and if you ask for something she doesn't want to buy, will complain about it constantly, or will ignore your request and buy what she wants anyway (eg my 30th birthday, when she asked me what I wanted, I said a sewing machine (stupidly thrilled that she'd asked) and she gave me tickets for the London eye even though I had told her I didn't want to go on it). She is also just so mean, to me anyway. This year I got a box with 4 chocolates in it. 4 little chocolates. I never ask her for anything, I never ask for money, I never ask for help, and all I'm worth is 4 little chocolates. I know it's supposed to be the thought that counts but it really stings. She throws money at the male siblings. Go figure.

My father used to gift things he wanted for himself and then take them and get really mad if you complained. Stuff used to 'disappear' all the time. He would also steal presents other people had given me.

I have just re read that back to myself and realised that i did something that came up in therapy, that I internalised the message that 'a good child never asks for anything' and felt hurt that no one notices that I'm being good and never asking for anything and I'm still sat desperately hoping for my reward.

😑

It is interesting about the gift thing because looking back we always put it down to 'one of my mothers quirks' but when you think of it she was playing us all off against each other. For example she would get my sister something she knew she would like and the same year she got my brother who barely turned 21 and did not drink wine a collection of fine wines knowing wine was 'my thing' and instead getting me a set of baking things and pots and pans which i had no need for as at this point i already owned my own home and had pots and pans coming out of my ears. Looking back it was strategic to put us in our places.

I actually now will possibly spend the rest of the weekend wondering if she ever got me anything I truly wanted or even needed. Maybe this is why I go over and above for my son and always get him what he asks for no matter what. Even if i alredy got him something else and its a last minute thing I will go through hoops to get him what he wants and i am sure to the outside world i spoil him but he is also a grateful child.

I am the same with my kids, because I can remember the pain of the disappointment and then having to squash it and hide it so acutely. I know what it feels like to spend Xmas day trying not to cry and faking joy and enthusiasm for something you don't like.

'of course I'll live with you if you split up daddy (inwardly thinking I would rather die than live with him and terrified it might actually happen)

'of course I love this present that isn't what I asked for'

'of course I love this dress (that cripples me with shame and embarrassment because the other kids are wearing joggers and you've put me in what looks like a maternity dress)'

'of course I'm happy to have a new bag for school for my birthday'

'of course this is the one I really want (when I've made sure to pick out the cheapest one so I don't get called greedy and spoilt)'

And I wonder why I'm so anxious all the time

That sums her up, when she could be bothered with buying gifts for me!

She's replied to my message with 'ok thanks'. Not quite sure what that means, does she think I'm ordering it? Who knows.

I'm the same with gifts. It was always a disappointment and I can't remember a gift which felt like they truly knew me and made an effort. My mother took over the gift giving. When I was 16 my father got me a perfume on his own accord (I now wonder what drove this?) and it pissed off my mother. So he wasn't allowed to get me anything himself and my mother got all stroppy on my birthday because of it.

The saddest birthday was when I turned 12. I received pyjamas because I needed one and a book I needed for school. That's when I understood it wasn't all a money thing. I realised they didn't care and made no effort. I cried that morning and was so embarrassed to go to school.

Once grown my brother and I always planned something special for each parents big birthday which we knew they'd like. My father was into tech so he got stuff to do with that and my mother just liked short trips so we did that. Then I turned 40. I knew it would just be a regular birthday for THEM but I didn't expect to receive a birthday card that's still wrapped in plastic. No message in it. Just 50 quid. That's when I understood they don't think the same way about me I thought about them.

I learnt that narcs just do what they know is a done thing in society. They know about birthday gifts, but they don't feel it like a normal person and that's why the gesture is empty.