SEPTEMBER 2025 - Well we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

I have now set up a new thread as the previous one is now full.
This long runnning thread has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.
The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!
One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;
'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'
Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.
Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.
NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.
You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.
'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.
I started with this book and found it really useful.
Here are some excerpts:
"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.
Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.
Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:
"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.
YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".
"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.
YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".
"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."
"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"
"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."
"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."
Helpful Websites
Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat for details.
Some books:
Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa
This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:
"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Then you have to sit with the discomfort. Your child doesn't need to want to talk. There is a reason it doesn't want to. Often it's either because of a reaction they are used to getting from you or they feel nothing will be different. Of course it could be something else too. They don't owe you a talk.

It's great that you don't want to minimise, reflect and want to listen. I would suggest to nevertheless keep an open mind that there might be something you are doing you are not aware of.

Most parents go like 'my child doesn't want to talk, so there is nothing I can do'. You can go to therapy and reflect and change a great deal of things without input from another person. And then they don't go and that's when I know they aren't actually willing to reflect all that much, just stay with what they currently know and are comfortable with.

@Twatalert 'I'm open and ready to listen but they won't talk' = I'm not the one causing the problem.

I wish my mother would go to therapy. I don't think she will even though she's been told by a professional that she should. I don't think she is willing to face it. It wouldn't be to change our relationship, but i would like her to understand me.

But then if she was capable of that, we wouldn't be in this situation would we. 😐

Yup, just like in the Oprah podcast. The question should be: what might I have done so my child feels they don't want to or can't talk to me?

@Twatalert I saw something interesting the other day by Patrick Teahan on his Instagram, where he said the roots might be in childhood but often the reasons for estrangements in adulthood are to do with how the parent is behaving in the here and now and I thought yes, 100%, that's where I am. My mother didn't handle things in childhood as she should have. I've had more people than I can count tell me that none of that was her fault because my father was so awful. But the problems now aren't about that. It makes it worse, I won't deny that, but this is about the tantrums over my wedding, the endless sneaky phone calls whining that it wasn't what she wanted. It's the weird behaviour over my kids, the possessiveness with the first and complete dismissal of the second. It's pressuring me to take the kids to visit after they moved abroad, and then spending the whole time drunk and complaining that the kids were too loud/annoying/messy/getting in the way of her doing what she wanted to do. It's telling me that visiting a local place for tea and cake is too expensive and then going on exotic holidays with step sibling. It's telling me that people who use private healthcare are disgusting (after I told her I had to go private because I couldn't get NHS care). It's never asking how I am, only what I can do for her. It's poking fun at my hobbies rather than simply saying the things I make are nice. All these things just make me not want to spend time with her, and because I feel like I already lost my entire childhood to people I don't like, I promised myself I wouldn't waste my adulthood doing the same.

That was a ramble 🤪

I’ve been to therapy on and off over the years and I’m a big believer in self growth.

Ive lurked on these threads for a while, I had a difficult relationship with my late mother and when I became a parent I was determined to do things differently and really prioritise the relationship with my dc. It hasn’t always been easy, dd3 was diagnosed with autism 7 years ago and for some time her needs dominated to the detriment of my other two dds. I thought I was meeting dd3’s needs but gradually the pendulum swung too far. I would do things very differently with hindsight.

When I read some of these stories about people’s parents it sounds so different from me as a parent. I know this thread is about children rather than parents but it breaks my heart to know I’ve hurt my oldest daughter and she currently wants to keep some distance.

@bendmeoverbackwards is there some eldest daughter syndrome happening, do you think?

Im not sure what that is. My 3 dds are all quite different and dh and I tried to make every effort to be loving supportive parents to all of them. Lots of 1 to 1 time with each of them, I think that’s important. I try and remind myself that dd1 is probably also autistic (not diagnosed - her choice) and can have very black and white inflexible thinking. This is not a criticism of her at all, just something I have to be aware of and make allowances for her ND like I do with dd3.

@bendmeoverbackwards it's to do with the eldest daughter being forced out of childhood and into maturity before she's ready because she's the oldest. Parenting being focussed on the younger children (particularly if they are demanding) and it being assumed that the eldest is fine because she's older and can deal with things herself. The eldest daughter being expected to pick up some of the domestic load when the other children aren't. It can lead to a lot of anxiety and anger later on.

www.simplypsychology.org/eldest-daughter-syndrome-in-adults.html

Ah I see @Crazylizzards no that doesn’t ring true here. Growing up, my middle dd was the more independent one, dd1 needed a lot more support but we never judged her, we just gave her the help she needed. All children mature at different rates. When she was a teen, she often needed help with planning a journey to an unfamiliar place which dd2 used to roll her eyes at (we didn’t). Dd1 now drives, travels independently and so on. It doesn’t matter at all how long she took to get there.

@bendmeoverbackwards often I think that words are less important and long discussions can be become counterproductive as emotions get triggered etc. on both sides.

I try to focus on my actions and behaviour in the here and now - consistently being/doing ‘better’ intentionally, prioritising the preservation and evolution of our adult relationship. For me personally it is to be calm and responsive not volatile and reactive and being conscious how my ‘advice / opinions’ can be construed as criticism. For me it building up the trust that I am a consistently calm person now which they can evidence by my actions over time. I am also compassionate enough to recognise that my own mothers emotional limitations, as well as mine and my DCs is collateral damage to situations we found ourselves in without the right resources, support, guidance etc so at a place of acceptance for then and accountability for now.

@bendmeoverbackwards the best advice I can give is go back to therapy for the best chance to heal this relationship. Not trying to offend, and you are probably just trying to give insight, but all I hear is that you have done everything and there is apparently nothing else you can do. Also, consider the possibility that your kids don't perceive their upbringing the way you do. They will all have different views. So if there is eldest daughter syndrome or something else you might not actually see it.

Thank you @Twatalert I am definitely not holding my hands up and admitting defeat. To the contrary, I want to do better and do everything I can to heal the relationship. I want DD to know I was wrong and have hurt her (I have told her this). Some things I’ve done in the past I am deeply ashamed of (for example, trying to usher her out the kitchen because dd3 wanted to eat alone, WTF was I thinking?). My actions now are very different and I will not let dd3 to dictate.

@bendmeoverbackwards good luck. A lot of parents are never going to do what you do. I know you are hurting and want this relationship back on track, but i would give this time and use the time to work on myself instead. It's very good that you can see how some things might have hurt your daughter. I wonder if you are going about it the right way in how you (would) acknowledge this, validate and reconnect. How you would approach future conflict etc. I'm not trying to blame you, I just wonder if you know considering your issues with your own mother. Often if we come from such families we do a lot of things differently but still go wrong in others.

There is a rare breed of parent like you on tiktok how talk about where they went wrong and what they have learnt and how to fix. There are plenty of therapists doing the same. I find it very insightful but it does attract a lot of parents in denial so the comment section can be a rollercoaster.

It hasn’t always been easy, dd3 was diagnosed with autism 7 years ago and for some time her needs dominated to the detriment of my other two dds

When I read some of these stories about people’s parents it sounds so different from me as a parent.

It really doesn't. The cause is irrelevant, the end result is the same. Favouritism. Prioritising one over the others. The others not getting their needs met.

Probably some form of parentification or similar too. Dropping your woes onto them instead of keeping them to yourself/venting to a friend. Making them responsible for your emotions, by having them feel they should not be making you even more tired and stressed than you already are, by wanting or expecting you to meet their needs. Creating a situation where they have no options but to squash their needs down, to suck up not having their needs met or be faced with the negative consequences of whatever you're like when you're stressed out. Effectively making them take responsibility for their disabled sibling, putting her needs first when she's not their child. Making them responsible for your own emotions, again, by not allowing them to have or voice negative opinions on the way they're being treated by you, shutting them down if they bring it up because "you're doing your best" or whatever you may have said at the time.

When it comes to repairing the relationship, accept without resentment whatever nice interaction your daughter gives you. If the relationship isn't as close as it could be, recognise and accept that you brought it on yourself. If she offers you an acquaintance type relationship, don't push for more.

Treat her with respect, accept her boundaries and don't tiptoe around her, like she's the problem and you don't know what you've done wrong and if you say "the wrong thing" she'll explode/withdraw - as if she's not justified in exploding or withdrawing at your overstepping of her boundaries. If you can't tell what her boundaries are or think she's unjustified in having them, then you need more therapy, a fuckton of it.

In fact, if you're feeling any need to tiptoe round someone who isn't abusive (or who only displays reactive abuse in response to your abuse of them), I'd go so far as to say it's a sign that you're not accepting that your behaviour in the present is a problem and that you don't know how to respect someone's boundaries.

I'm not saying you are, but if you constantly disrespect someone by trampling over (or trying to) their boundaries, don't expect them to respond well. Expect them to "grey rock" you at best, or to become snappy towards you or to choose to not be around you. It's insulting to act like someone's reaction to you overstepping, is the problem and as if the only solution is to tiptoe round them, instead of you just being respectful in the first place.

As a pp said, "what do you do if your child doesn't want to talk?" - you ACCEPT it. You don't find ways to get her to talk. You don't try to manipulate her into talking or into spending time with you. You don't try to wheedle information out of her. You don't get huffy, passive aggressive or give her the silent treatment because she won't talk or because she has a different opinion to you.

She doesn't deserve to be punished for not talking about whatever you want to talk about (or for staying away and not talking at all) because she hasn't/isn't doing anything wrong. Her boundaries are not something for you to push against or attempt to break down.

If she grew up essentially without a mother (despite you physically being there), you can't necessarily fix that by attempting to mother her now - it's maybe too late and you've missed your chance. So if you're doing that and it isn't getting a good response, then back off instead of trying harder with it.

Good luck with things in the future.

@SamAndAnnie you are extrapolating a huge amount. Dd1 did not grow up without an emotionally present mother. I said for a period of time, dd3’s needs tended to dominate. At other times during childhood/teen years dd1’s needs were at the forefront, for example when she had an extreme dental phobia for many years and I took her to every professional going to get support for her. It eventually resolved and we paid for her to go to a wonderful private dentist. Dd1’s passion for dance took up a lot of our time, energy, headspace and finances and I’m glad it did as she is now hoping to become a professional dancer. At other times, dd2’s needs were at the forefront. It’s not about favouritism, it’s about children’s needs changing over time.

I have never made them feel responsible for my emotions. I did try to encourage dd1 to open up, mainly because I thought it might be good for HER to get things out in the open, but I see now it doesn’t work for her and I respect her wishes. I told her if she ever changes her mind and wants to talk, I’m there for her.

And actually I do maintain there is a difference between my parenting and that of others on here. Yes I’ve made mistakes like any parent but there is a huge difference between a parent who acknowledges their mistakes and sees them as an opportunity for growth and to admit this and offer an apology; and one who can’t see they’ve done anything wrong/never apologises/blames their child.

@bendmeoverbackwards this started off hopeful but you are just dropping red flags now. You sound exactly like these parents in your last post and, frankly, this thread is a safe space away from parents like that. I won't respond to you again.

I’m sorry you feel that way @Twatalert and thank you for your posts, it’s given me food for thought. I’m not sure what you mean by red flags though.

One thing I have discussed in therapy is my own mother and her parenting of me. I was made to feel that I wasn’t good enough, she was highly critical of me, called me names, shouted at me etc. It made me determined to do things differently which I have to a large degree. But as she blamed me for everything, it affected my self esteem for years and even now I tend to blame myself for things when they’re not my fault. I think it’s important to take responsibility for your mistakes but perhaps I’ve gone too far the other way, indeed dh and many other people who know me say I’m too hard on myself. But I’m certainly not in denial and I don’t expect my dc to be grateful for things we’ve done for them, those things are just being a parent.

I know this board is for (adult) children rather than parents so perhaps it’s not the right place.

Wow…..the irony - can totally see the phrase ‘hurt people, hurt people’ in action here.

@bendmeoverbackwards you are very welcome on this thread - I have been on it with @AttilaTheMeerkat for maybe a decade. We all support each other and our healing. No one is a perfect parent, sibling, friend, colleague 24/7 especially those of us who are operating under additional strain and limitations from having had a tough start - but the most important part is to be reflective, compassionate and accountable and you are doing that. Continue to seek support and direction here to work with in your life and pick and choose from those responses that work for you and your daughter. You have no need to justify yourself to a random aggressive agitator on the internet - focus your finite emotional energy, headspace and time on the relationship with your daughter. You are doing great.

I'm still stuck on not letting a child in the kitchen because their sibling didn't want them in there and would like to know what else was going on.

Because I have found, as an adult, that my mother treats siblings very differently to me, and it's a problem. Different according to needs is one thing. I've got two very different children, I know how this works. But 'because your sibling wants' is about pecking order.

My siblings and I are very different and all three of us got different versions of the same mother. I do not agree about the hurt people hurting people as an excuse for anything. I was a hurt person and go out of my way to be the opposite. I am no saint and nobody is the perfect parent but honestly there are times with my child and I think 'what would my mother do in this situation' and then i do the opposite.

It was my mother's birthday a few days ago, I sent a card and a text (which is kind of my contact boundary, TBH, I prefer not to talk to her on the phone because it makes my anxiety spike massively, all she does is complain/argue, and I always end a call feeling used, like I've been used for emotional support and to kill a bit of time). No response from her. I saw something on insta yesterday which I can't stop thinking about now - when they respond, you feel awful, because the relationship is broken, and when they don't respond, you feel awful, because the relationship is broken.

I have come to the conclusion that when we talk about treating them differently/not treating them differently, there's a tendency to focus on the wrong things. So parents will insist they treated their children all the same (spending the exact same amount on them at Christmas, for example), whilst slotting the children into very different social roles within the family and giving them different responsibilities, which can include things like giving one child the job of being the one that everyone bullies, or being the child that has the job of being better than the others.

One thing you need to be careful of is overdoing the apologising. My DM does that; she so often talks about her guilt about the CSA my DSis and I went through, and says she’s sorry she didn't know it was happening.

On the one hand, at least she believed us straightaway, which I was grateful for. But she also ends up being very emotional and I find myself comforting her. Which should not be my role, she should see a therapist. (Which she will never do, sadly.)

I'm not saying you do this necessarily. My point is that overdoing the apologising makes it about your need for forgiveness/reconciliation and not what your DD needs. If what she needs is to distance herself from you, then you need to respect that.

You can do this with anything you say or do with another person: am I truly doing it because my child/the other person has a need for it (other person should express this need, non-adult child does not need to express this - parent should attune) or am I meeting my own emotional need with this? If it's the latter I am afraid we are the issue ourselves. Everyone does it to a degree, but some do it so it actually becomes emotionally abusive/neglectful towards a child.