SEPTEMBER 2025 - Well we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

I have now set up a new thread as the previous one is now full.
This long runnning thread has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.
The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!
One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;
'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'
Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.
Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.
NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.
You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.
'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.
I started with this book and found it really useful.
Here are some excerpts:
"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.
Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.
Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:
"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.
YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".
"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.
YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".
"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."
"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"
"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."
"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."
Helpful Websites
Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat for details.
Some books:
Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa
This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:
"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

I was jjust thinking back to my own wedding and my mother tells people she paid for it (she didnt) and that she and my sister helped pick my wedding dress (they didnt yet again) and all this stuff but essentially me and my now ex husband organised and paid for everything and ourselves although the mother did contribute to the evening buffet however it was all her friends she invited.
We had organised a small intimate dinner for our wedding after a register office wedding cos despite my mother telling people i am an attention seeker i am anything but, hate the limelight really, and we had a small wedding and a meal for 26 people and an afters type thing where extended family and friends were invited to which we catered for but she wanted her line dancing crew at my wedding and it recently hit me that she pretty much took over the evening part of my wedding day. I changed out of my dress after the meal and evening part we had organised and the second 'set' of evening guests which were all her 'people' arrived possibly not even recognising i was the bride as i was no longer in a wedding dress and she got them all up doing line dancing as if it was a treat for my guests but i had totally forgotten about all that as me and hubbie and close friends and family basically sat one side to ourselves and let all that happen but thinking back i am actually annoyed at myself for allowing her to take over my wedding as if it was her night. Jesus when you think back over the past the signs are always there we just do not see them until we recognise how self obsessed our narcissitic parents really are.

@Crazylizzards
Yes, mum did know we were going on holiday. She had asked a while ago to visit between very specific dates and I had to tell her we wouldn't be here. So she knew when we were away. It was my DDs birthday when she came, so I think she intentionally did it so she can say "i visited my granddaughter for her birthday". She made sure to get a photo taken with DC when I left the room too.

With regards to her gifts, its weird, she starts to play dumb:
"what do you do with it?" "How does it work?" I mostly buy her food/drink, a diary or candle. It's like a mini hamper of consumable items rather than clutter. Never costs me more than about £20. So I'm puzzled when she queries perfectly obvious objects.

Interesting you mention your mum going on about a shop that you like. I'm a fan of a particular brand of jewellery, as is my mum. I know she treats herself to pieces (as is her right, she's retired, she can spend her money how she wants) Last year in addition to the annual bank transfer she sent a small box, it was for this brand of jewellery. I opened it up, quite excited... and it was the free keyring you got if you spent over a certain amount. I know because I'd been looking on the website.

In the phone call to MiL, mum was talking about my big birthday that's coming up and MiL went "oh why don't you get her some of that jewellery, she loves that" 😂

MiL does buy me the jewellery.

@SlowSloths my mother has form for a bit of performative grandparenting. In reality she barely sees them and isn't really interested.

She does another really weird thing with gift giving, which is asking what you want and then complaining that she doesn't want to buy that, why have you asked for that and not this other thing (that in her opinion is the thing you should have asked for in the first place). Or asking you and then not buying you it, or buying you something you didn't want.

She also gets angry if your wants are different from her wants.

I have just realised that my mother also plays 'but what is it for/what do you do with it'

Are you sure we haven't got the same mum?!

Unfortunately I think there's more than one 😶

I follow various estrangement cases including the father Markle case. The press says she has reached out to him now that he's critically ill and it made me really uncomfortable.

I often wonder when or how I will hear the news that my parents are at the end of life. I think they'd absolutely ask to see me. I always thought I will have no issues declining this but reading this story sent me on a guilt trip. I don't think I'd regret not going to see them. Id just feel awful because I denied a person one of their last wishes. And I wouldn't want to give in as it would feel like a triumph of my parents. Like they got their way with me at the very end. I think I fear the judgement of others too if I don't. So I don't want to but I feel like I should or should want to.

I will have to face them at an event in January and am half expecting some bad medical news just because of their age and lifestyle. Mostly by my father. My mother's mother and her grandmother lived long lifes unfortunately.

I don't know if the press is telling the truth. I just wondered what made Megan Markle reach out to her father suddenly. I didn't think she would.

My understanding is that it has not been confirmed that she has reached out to him personally but rather instructed her staff to verify the change in his health status (he has had his leg amputated after an emergency blood clot).

These situations are always very difficult and people make personal decisions in the moment. My advice would always do what suits you without FOG. If you feel like the bigger person in someone’s dying days by going to see them - then do that for yourself - so you have no regrets rather than making peace or comforting the other if that’s not what you want to do. It’s a bit like the concept of forgiveness when it helps you release anything you are holding but doesnt require communication with the other person or accepting their deed was OK - it’s just moving on without burden to yourself.

I always assume that the press are lying, in some way shape or form. Their only aim is to get clicks and sell papers.

I don't know what I will do as my mother ages. We're not close, she's chosen to move to the other end of the country so I couldn't get there quickly. I don't even know if I would go to her funeral. I think it's OK to find your own way to deal with these things, even if that goes against what's conventionally expected.

I remember watching the Beckham documentary recently (one of the ones on Netflix) and in it, there was a bit when she talked about taking Brooklyn to events because David was playing football abroad, and there was some throwaway comment about him being her stand in husband, and how much she had leaned on/relied on him for support during that time. My immediate thought was that now we know why he's separated himself from the family as an adult, because that's parentification.

@Crazylizzards I have the same thoughts about Brooklyn Beckham. The issue likely isn't him or his wife. i only saw a bit of this documentary as I switched off. Something about VB isn't right. I don't buy her at all. I could well imagine that BB couldn't be himself and therefore doesn't know who he is or what he can do.

My dad (alcoholic) died suddenly and my DB and I hadn't seen or spoken to him for a few years. DB went to see his body, I refused. I didn't want to go to the funeral but my mum guilt tripped me. She planned it all, despite being divorced from him for several years. Me and DB were only in our early 20s, so out of our depth. The experience was excruciating. We had lots of dad's work colleagues coming up to us to talk about what a lovely man he was and it felt like an out of body experience because I didn't recognise the person they were talking about. I had to pretend and just thank people.

Thanks for sharing @SlowSloths and I am sorry you had a dreadful father and you were coerced into a very negative funeral experience at a young age. I hope you can prioritise some compassion for that younger self and you are making progress to grow from your neglected childhood.

I’m remembering how I felt when my abusive F died back in 1998. (I was 28.) It was very confusing, as I couldn’t bear to be around him when he was alive, but I maintained a relationship with him for my DM’s sake and because I had compassion for him as he had Parkinson’s Disease for many years.

And yet, I found myself grieving for him despite also feeling relieved that he was gone. I really didn’t understand, which made it even more upsetting. It was the same for my DSis.

Years later, when the memories of the CSA my DSis and I had suffered at his hands came back (when our DCs were small), I was able to process all those confusing feelings and I no longer felt guilty for having felt relieved at his passing.

Like you, @SlowSloths, I was confused by all the eulogising during my F’s funeral. Although curiously, when we asked them
questions about what they knew, none of them were surprised to learn that he had sexually abused us and quite a few said they’d had concerns about our home life.

i often wonder if I will be told dm has died or how i will find out I doubt dsis will tell me and she won’t want me at the funeral incase i tell people what is going on and me not going supports her story of me doing nothing for dm she’s had to do it all on her own so gets the inheritance I would like to go to the funeral but not the wake as I can’t pretend we are a happy normal family now. I am curious as to what will go on her headstone if it is mentioned about being a grandmother she was a great gm to my dc her only gc until a few years ago when dsis started all this but hasn’t bothered with them since probably not entirely all her fault

I wouldn’t go to dsis funeral she is nothing to me now after everything she’s done. I have told dh and dc if I go first i don’t want them to tell her she doesn’t care if any of us are dead or alive so she has no right to know

if I had my way if dh died I wouldn’t tell his cousin dsis best friend and wouldn’t want her at the funeral but other relatives would tell her and I wouldn’t want to make a scene she hasn’t spoken to us for a few years because of everything going with dsis. She knows what is going on but either choosing to believe dsis lies although she knows dsis is crap with money said herself she’s used to being bailed out so just helped herself to dm money or ignoring it as she is reliant on dsis for company since she got divorced and her adult dc moved out she is at her house all weekend and all of her friends her social life is through dsis and she has seen what happens if you question dsis you get blocked and cut off like we have

Because of the way my mother has written her will, I realised that my adult DS will probably be notified of her death, then he'll have to tell me. We had to have a conversation about it, I tried to be matter of fact and reassuring but still, you can imagine how unpleasant thats going to be for him.

I won't be on my own this Christmas as I have invited a friend. But it's still not family and she has family and travels to them every other Christmas. It does get easier but I still get so sad. There are all the reminders that my family never really knew me, that I got excluded and ignored in so many subtle ways and the endless walking on egg shells. At least I am safe now and can do what I want. I won't receive another present that's just money or shows how they don't know me.

I ordered myself a few things this month already. Nice things I like and some christmassy things as I am into a new chapter now and the season will always be different. I did think earlier how nice it would have been if someone knew in such a way. Or someone just made an effort. Any effort.

I'm listening to Christmas carols and they get me emotional. But that's better than being in my head. It's better to cry. And this year I can listen. I don't feel totally overwhelmed by the season. I'm just so sad for myself for not being able to get up two Christmasses ago. That I was treated in a way that lead to being a sobbing mess in bed. I can't wait for the 1st of Jan.

Twatalert

That sounds ok to me. You do not need to be around family who otherwise ignore you. With you out of the frame hopefully they will further turn against each other.

It did not surprise me to read that Meghan has actually not reached out to her dad (not that she would given that she is a narcissist).

As for Brooklyn well he's gone from one dysfunctional family into another; he has been snared by a narcissist too. A small part of me feels sorry for him because it's clear he has been in the spotlight his whole life and used accordingly without either parent being available emotionally and physically to guide him. All they seem to ever have done is chase both publicity and money. He got left to his own devices particularly as a teenager and he is still without purpose. And his brothers and sister seem to be going down the same path.

Thelnebriati

re your comment:
"Because of the way my mother has written her will, I realised that my adult DS will probably be notified of her death, then he'll have to tell me".

Is there a way around this?. I would be having a word with your Solicitor re her wording because if it is not correctly worded it may well be that this can be challenged.

It does sound like a way of punishing you both here by she using him. If she was for instance to die in hospital (which is where most people die) I would assume that her H (if alive) or you would be informed initially rather than your son.

Yes agree she's a narcissist. Question is how did she become one and they probably are as good as each other. I now read she sent him an email which made me laugh. I think I fell for it and shes doing image control or enjoys the attention even in this scenario.

I wanted to let you know that you're not alone. I really struggle with Christmas, too. I've still not really got to the bottom of why. I start dreading it weeks in advance and by the time it arrives, can't wait for it to be over. I don't even know what I'm dreading. I feel so much better once it's finished. I suspect it's a combination of things - childhood family Christmases were always a combination of fear, disappointment that I would get in so much trouble for if it showed, my father having a tantrum because we weren't happy or grateful enough, horrible food, just this enormous pressure to act like we were this amazing family when we were anything but. I look back at it now and all I can think is how much I hate my parents for what they subjected me to. Pair of immature dicks. I feel so sorry for my child self. I have done the same as you - I have some traditions that I've created that are my choice and that really helps (they're all really childish things).

I think it's OK to feel sad at Christmas, I think it's more common than people like to admit. It's OK to have complicated feelings about it because we're not living in a hallmark movie.

@Crazylizzards it does feel so lonely because it's just not talked about and then we each carry our own pain. Lots of people feel like this. Years ago I disliked Christmas 'for unknown reasons'. Now I think it's just some residual grief. It's different from a few years ago. I don't run away from it anymore. This year I quite enjoy putting on the music and decorating a bit. I found a candle holder I got from my mother some years ago and I couldn't look at it. It will leave my house soon.

I just ordered some nice Scandinavian style ones plus some nice candles. I have had a few of these impulse buys and enjoy treating myself. Last year I still forced myself to make it a bit nice. I didn't enjoy it.

I feel very ambivalent about Christmas this year mainly because my dad died back in April. He was a good man and I miss him. I am definitely planning to be on holiday somewhere warm for part of December next year.

To my mind it’s ok to be sad and it’s ok to make your own traditions. The stately homes thread and us on it will prevail.

Yes thank you @Hirik I also feel guilt about some actions and decisions I made about my dd1 (now 24). I fully accept that I made mistakes and (unintentionally) hurt her. She doesn’t open up much and either doesn’t feel able to forgive me and/or is still hurt and she’s been up quite distant recently. She still lives at home. I’d love to get some connection back and will do what it takes.

I think I’m quite good at self reflection and also admitting I was wrong. I would never minimise DD’s feelings and am willing to really listen. But what do you do if your child doesn’t want to talk?

Respect your child's wishes.

Find a therapist to work through what it was that led to you having this relationship with your child so that you can figure it out with someone who has no skin in the game. Don't make it your child's responsibility.