Husband is unrecognisable

[phlebasconsidered]

My DH and I have always been different politically. We've managed it- it's fine to have different views. I'm left, he's Tory.

Or, he was. We have two nearly grown kids, 17 and 18. He's recently been spending more time in the back room watching stuff that i've pointed out is insane. You tube, Brit news or whatever that bilge is, I don't know where it came from. He's justifying his views by citing sexual assaults on white girls. He's basically transmogrified into a fucking idiot and I can't believe it.

We used to differ on economics, sure, but now suddenly he's a 53 year old fascist? I can't talk to him. His arguments turn me around. He's been radicalised- I recognise it from experiences in my profession. He says he's going to the march on Saturday. I've told him i'll go on the opposing one.

There's no way forward as far as I can see. As far as I knew he was still a loving family man but now I just see a big arsehole. He just circles around the phrases when I tried to talk to him.

I would just stand my ground and argue back- he's been a good husband and father till now, hitting mid 50s. But i'm in a job where if he goes and protests on Saturday and gets arrested, I will be compromised, asI work with children.

I need to distance myself. I'd really like to know i'm not alone I was hoping it was a bit of a mid life crisis, but I think he's just become a toral cock.

Wtaf am I meant to do. I'd rather he ran off with a younger woman tbh. I feel ashamed of him!

Why do you both have good jobs but no money?

Do you have access to his business accounts?

Financial discontent and getting older maybe the catalyst you are looking for his recent radicalisation.

I have no issue with immigration and tbh if I felt a better life was available I would risk a boat trip too.

And yet we have all the Red Pill young men, neutered on internet porn and the ramblings of Tate etc

Facts and figures, ready available

Sounds like a good observation. Tbf, a lot of the country's current problems are driven by economics. People are insecure and angry and they lash out.

100% this.

This happened to my sister during COVID, she was always right-leaning since her partner influenced her but it got worse during the 2020-2022 period and unfortunately has stuck to this day. Total conspiracy theorist on top of her radical right views. I don't speak to her.

I would be heartbroken over this if it was my husband. The views themselves are irrelevant in my opinion, he has changed as a person to someone you can no longer align with and that is really sad. I would have to leave in your shoes if the option was available (financially).

At a basic level, students who go to university and get graded on essays that require citations for each point of discussion, learn the difference between a reliable and non reliable source and learn how to discern between fact and opinion. If they don’t do this properly they fail their assignments.

This is by and large what is missing when people fall for propaganda and is a crucial skill for critical thinking.

You can definitely develop this without going to university however! But on a population level I would say that people who had to do this for 4 years at uni are better at this than people who didn’t.

It is about money and benefits. The criminal gangs are importing criminals to exploit the benefits system in the UK.

I’ve worked with immigrants in the past. Mostly respectful and law abiding young people or families who want a future.

You can’t just lump them all together and say they are all the same.

My entire family would be dead if it wasn’t for the Drs and Nurses who saved us at one point or another and 80% of the Drs and Nurses who looked after us were immigrants.

I can relate too OP. My ex husband suddenly got into bonkers conspiracy theories in his 40's. Really plainly stupid ones about aliens and covid and so on. It's really made me lose all respect for him. It seemed to be some kind of midlife crisis that he didn't grow out of. It didn't do much for our marriage.

It’s for the women to be scared of though isn’t it, not the men.
Otherwise this is just about men thinking they are the owners and protectors of their wives and girlfriends bodies.
Which is no different to any other belief that women are the property of men

Everyone can be radicalised, those who go to uni, those who dont, young, old, those in the middle.

Op. I am sure there are books on this stuff, how to help people move away from extreme beliefs.

It feels like this stuff is his life at the moment, and he needs to find other stuff that engages him away from all of this.

Incorrect. This is an EU rule, the 'Dublin agreement', and no longer applies since the UK left the EU.

Ah, yet another tangible Brexit benefit.

I’m sorry that sounds totally intolerable.

not sure what the answer is other than to separate. I guess you could try having some topics of conversation entirely off limits but not sure that could work for most families long term

I would describe myself as a pacifist. I don't hold with violence.. however this week a relatives middle aged ds is staying in a very well known nice South UK, seaside resort for his job. At breakfast time the migrants surround him and take pictures roughly a dozen,he started off on Sunday feeling uncomfortable and frankly now frightened. This isn't a grubby b and b,it's a 4 star hotel. Some of the British guests had their rooms broken into.

That’s not correct either otherwise ROI and Germany could send everyone back.

My dad had a university degree in a science subject so clearly was an intelligent man. He did lack critical thinking skills however and I was aware of this from quite a young age before I even knew what it meant. He wouldn’t question things that were presented to him as long as they fit with his life view, mainly regurgitating things he had read in the Daily Mail. It was by questioning him as a young person that I formed my own political views.

So I don’t think it’s necessarily that people are not intelligent but critical thinking is a skill that not everyone has.

Op the person who said you attitude is part of the problem was right. Also the one who said financial problems will be part of the reason.

Your husband should not be supporting violent protestors. It's possible he can go on the march and help to stop it becoming violent, but I doubt it. Instead could you try listening to what he is saying and suggest other ways to deal with his concerns. It is when people like you who see themselves as better able to think critically dont listen to concerns that the far right get more support.

It was telling that one of the peaceful protestors was saying " we dont know these people, they could be anyone". What we need to do is have men and women who work with asylum seekers to educate them in being good neighbours and to get these young men out into roles where they are contributing to the community and being known. Part of that will be in educating them about how to approach - and when not to approach - young women. Show him this 6

Another problem is economic. Britain is a country in decline and we all have to get used to a lower standard of living. That is not the fault of a tiny number of people fleeing persecution. Can you read him stories of asylum seekers histories or show him videos like this one 7 Ask him what he would have done in a similar position.

Blimey, sounds awful.

I think you’re correct about being radicalised online. People in my household sometimes come out with, or show me, a load of absolute baloney they’ve seen online, that I then show is made up propaganda or challenge. Though not to that extreme. Algorithms can take people down a rabbit hole v quickly.

It could also be tied in with his age and point in life. IME when people with kids finally get towards the end of parenting, they have to reevaluate their life and refind themselves as individuals. That’s why some couples grow apart and split up at that point. They both want different things, post-kids. Even without the added challenges of menopause, it’s a time of big change and we don’t all change in the same way or want/value the same things.

Personally, I couldn’t even be friends with, or date, someone who held v different political views. For me, values are fundamental to close relationships. But I accept we’re all different in what matters to us.

Sounds like you need a serious think/talk about what you’re looking for in a relationship at this point in your life, and your boundaries around that, especially if it may jeopardise your career.

In the spirit of challenge, I don’t agree people without formal education, or who work in certain fields, can’t think critically. Some people I’m close to, who have no further education and work in manual jobs, are exceptionally well-read, self-educated, and critical thinkers. Much more so than some people with degrees or who work in jobs where this is a requirement. It drives one friend crazy that he’s talked down to due to prejudices about his job.

I find it v frustrating when people’s views are brushed aside on the basis they’re uneducated or somehow stupid. It’s v condescending. A reasoned debate, based on evidence, is vital. Though it’s challenging to debate with people whose hearts are full of hatred.

@phlebasconsidered I’m reading this with GB news in the background. Not my choice. We are both late fifties. The only way I can deal with it is with humour and piss taking. I can’t talk to him seriously about it. I’m hoping it’s a phase he grows out of. It does worry me though, I’ve known him since he was a punky teenager, his 18 yo self would not recognise his 58 yo self.

A citation simply says which research study the point is made in. Most students won’t even have read said research study, let alone considered who funded the study and what the vested interests of the researchers/funders are. They will cite it as if it is ‘true’. They would very rarely be considering the wider picture of publication bias and so on. The reality is that those with the most money and power have the most research and status to back up their perspectives and citing that research is about as far as most undergrads go, even most masters and doctoral students do the same. University is mainly about class and joining the right club - mixing with the right people and gaining access to the relevant career via knowledge acquisition and contacts. It’s very little to do with critical thinking.

Often the case that “angry young men become reactionary old ones”.

Have you tried talking to him about how he used to be much more sceptical about propaganda like this and why he has changed?

My parent also has a university degree and is very smart but it’s in a medical field, so I think this makes them vulnerable to political propaganda because they never had to learn to dissect different social/political/legal opinions.

Luckily their knowledge means they are not vulnerable to medical/health conspiracies.

At a guess I would say your father might not think climate change is a hoax because he is well versed in the scientific method and understands peer review but he swallows political ideas as fact without much critical thought when he hears them?

Maybe he never had critical thinking and was just swept up by left wing, instead of right wing narrative as it was what he was exposed to? My ex changed a few times from heavily left, to heavily right wing.

Some people have no true core personality and are only ever flying in the wind.