Something isn't right - emotional affair or just friends?

[FourAndFive]

Name changed for this. It's a bit of a blur, and long, apologies in advance.

I need help and/or a slap to either wake me up to an emotional affair and huge gaslighting from my DH (47), or to help me deal with a shiny new friendship my DH of 24 years has.

He's hidden a friendship from me that has been going on for nearly a year. He has never, ever done this before, and has been a completely open book in all our years together. The last five years have been so good for us emotionally, and our relationship felt solid as far as I was concerned.

He has a hobby that he is obsessed (not lightheartedly obsessed, genuinely obsessed) with, and while doing this hobby he meets people from time to time. He would usually mention these people in passing, and I'm happy he's happy, so all good. About 6-7 weeks ago, he started to mention at funny times how he was meeting 'great people', and 'so many people to chat to' and 'I know so many people now' while he's doing his hobby and I thought yeah, great, but it was out of tone, and quite odd.

Fast forward a week or so, and he keeps name dropping and then tells me that I have to meet someone (single F28), because I'd really like her, and she does the hobby a bit more than he does, and has done it all over the world and how nice she is etc. and so I found myself meeting her for a few hours across two days, alongside some of her family members, who all knew about my DH and the shared hobby and thought how sweet it was... It was so very odd, and I couldn't put my finger on why, and I was so uncomfortable.

To cut a very long story short, it turns out they've been regularly meeting up since late last year, texting multiple times a day, including gifts and planning things around their hobby... I've since seen most of their messages. I have never seen my DH speak to anyone like he speaks to her (except me). He is a man who I know has strong moral boundaries, and keeps a safe distance from other women, doesn't encourage and is completely platonic with all of his female friends - which is clearly no longer the case! There is no 'sex' chat, and he talks about us occasionally (we have 2DC) but it's overly affectionate/mutual appreciation and excitement for finding each other - and I've hated reading them. (I asked him for phone access after all the minimising he was doing, and he said he'd deleted all messages - but he forgot to remove them from his deleted items, so I restored them. I know this is a massive red flag.)

I've told him that I need him to cut all contact with her - but he had serious meltdown (talk of CS), insists it's just friends and that I should trust him. I am finding this impossible, considering the lengths he's taken to hide her until recently. He hasn't done anything to reduce contact, and has even initiated meeting her multiple times, even though I specifically asked him not to. I know they met today for the hobby, and I know they've text each other, because he is telling me - at my request. But I shouldn't worry, because he loves me blah blah. I just want a bit of respite from it so I can get my head around his utterly bizarre behaviour, and consider everything that's happened. It's so unlike him.

I feel sick. The trust isn't there. I feel anxious all the time. I know what I should be doing, but I don't want him to be unhappy at the same time - especially if it is actually platonic. Thoughts please wise MN women! How do I navigate this shit show?

@FourAndFive

I had very expensive marriage therapy (that ultimately didn't save my marriage) but I still took away a single important lesson from the therapist...

His key point as to why marriages fail is that one (or both) parties prioritise something - or someone - else above their marriage:

That could be -
their career,
alcohol,
a hobby,
their children (controversially this guy believed that),
socialising
conspiracy theories (in my ex's case)

It's very clear where this scenario falls using that simple metric.

Rather than trying to argue what his or her motivations are (which he may not fully consciously know in any case) - he is 100% prioritising his "friendship" with her WAY above your marriage.

To do that - and also to weaponise suicide - are close to unforgiveable in my opinion.

By contrast - your actions are not designed to take something healthy away from him. They are the actions of someone prioritising their marriage - fighting for it in fact. It is not a healthy, normal or appropriate - for someone to threaten suicide in this scenario.

I'd also be VERY interested to know what suddenly triggered his soft launch of her existence to you - then obvs the full introduction - after the previous months' complete silence about her?

Of course hes being nice because he has one objective and also he believes he can win you round as he always has before, he believes he can do this..

I am so sorry OP, stay strong and listen to all the great advice here x

When my husband had a 'friend', who was taking over like this, it came to a point where I realised that it didn't matter if they were having sex, or it was an emotional affair, she was intruding into our life, my youngest son was a friend of her son, and decisions and arrangements were being made about our 10 year old sons activities, which I hadn't been involved in! When I said it had to stop, rather than threaten suicide, he made out that I was mentally ill, paranoid and jealous. You can seperate and divorce for any reason, and I think in your position I would do that. I realised that I was becoming a suspicious, resentful person, and I didn't want to be that person
Also when the shit finally hit the fan, it was a great relief to be able to be open and honest with my wider family, instead of having to hide my constant worry and distress. I loved him dearly, but over the years, I have never regretted divorcing him, and realise that apart from his 'friend' I had been putting up with a lot of selfishness and lack of respect for me as an equal.

He threatened suicide not because he genuinely wanted to end his life, but because he knew your request was totally reasonable able and he needed to shock you into bending to his demands.

In your shoes , I think I would take him at his word. Many health authorities have a 24 hour mental health crisis line- if he pulls this threat ever again, I would be calling them to say that this is what he is threatening, and seek their help.

It’s clear that he is prioritising the hobby relationship above your marriage and family. I’d explain to him very clearly that you understand the hobby relationship is the most important relationship in his life, and that it’s probably time to have a conversation about how the logistics of a divorce would work - splitting the house/assets/where the children would live/ pensions etc. A cold dose of reality might be enough to wake him from his ideal scenario of comfy home life alongside the hobby relationship .

I remember a lady posting on MN about her DH. He was a piano teacher and was going on bike rides with his female friend and her children. It was so sad because the OP just wouldn't act what was going on right in front of her.

Affairs in plain sight are the hardest because on the surface they can seem so innocent and you may feel that you have no right to object.

@KidsDoBetter is spot on because it doesn't matter what the 'subject' is. All that matters is that he is making it a priority over his relationship with his wife to the detriment of that relationship and that he doesn't care about it one bit.

Because he cannot hide the obvious anymore. He is ruining his marriage. He spends time with the other woman. Would it be better if they hid it. The young lady needs him as a partner....she sees him as a safe friend. LOL, your daddy or mummy or best friend or boyfriend should be your safe person, not someone's very old for you husband.

The way her family got involved speaks VOLUMES. They know he is obsessed with her and she has been mentioning this man. They know he might be a potential husband for their daughter and they happend to meet him because apparently love their daughter. If one of my daughters had a man like that in her life and would not listen to me to get rid of him, I would be meeting him, because he might be my future son in law. This is gone too far and I am praying for the poster.

Would you consider going to the event with him?

It is such a big lie sewn with white threads which are close to burst around the seams at any minute

It’s clear that he is prioritising the hobby relationship above your marriage and family. I’d explain to him very clearly that you understand the hobby relationship is the most important relationship in his life, and that it’s probably time to have a conversation about how the logistics of a divorce would work - splitting the house/assets/where the children would live/ pensions etc. A cold dose of reality might be enough to wake him from his ideal scenario of comfy home life alongside the hobby relationship .

This is right.

It's hard to tell from what you've said whether he is actually thinking of jumping ship or whether he's having a classic mid-life crisis. But he sounds like a child. He clearly is in massive denial and hasn't begun to engage with the seriousness of what is happening or is bargaining with himself that he can continue to live in this Peter Pan world where you will come around to the wonderfulness of his new friendship given enough time. It sounds as if he isn't even self aware enough to realise that he's becoming emotionally involved with her. The suicide threat was genuinely pathetic. I'm sorry, and I would never normally trivialise this but I would have struggled not to laugh.

He will eventually have to snap out of it and make a choice one way of the other, which is what he clearly doesn't want to have to do. You can't make that choice for him and you can't order or mandate anything for him. You may ultimately have to leave him and you should be prepared to if it carries on like this.

What you can and should do now is make clear that you and your children are no longer going to play along with this and engage in this ridiculous charade. I think calling his bluff on the suicide threat might be unnecessary. I think you just need to make it starkly clear to him what he is about to lose if he carries on down this path, and ask him to leave to think about it.

Whether you can move forwards from this or not is up to you. I personally don't think I could. You seem, up to this point, to have had a strong marriage so its your call. But he really needs to be made to confront what he is doing.

I was in a similar situation with my ex. Very similar. While he was out with her, I put all his stuff out the front of the house and barred the doors and told him to come and get it. I had informed the Police as he could get nasty.

They collected it all and he moved in with her so it WAS a relationship.

I knew it was of course but he had lied and lied and lied just like your DH.

Find your anger now OP. Protect the kids but you need to find white hot rage and use it as a tool. Once she has to wash his pants, the gloss will soon come off it!

Your instincts are right

Stay strong, OP. Good luck

Exactly and especially as he thinks it's not his fault 🙄

I'm so sorry you're going through this OP. It must be such a shock, finding out he's not the man you thought he was and then the threat of suicide because you have told him he cannot be married to you and have this relationship with a woman 20 years his junior. I'm aghast at this on your behalf.

Keep strong 💪 you're worth so much more.

OP, my heart goes out to you. This is awful. Your DH would rather not be alive than not seeing another woman. I cannot imagine the pain that has caused you. In this case I would contact her and let her know she is effectively ruining your marriage and she can have him. I would be honest with your DC about it and tell him to leave. Let his mum know he can't live without this other woman and drop him on her doorstep because he is clearly telling you he can live without you. And fuck him mooning over some woman putting her above you and your children. He is an absolute shit husband and horrible father because good fathers do not betray their children's mother and cause them distress!

Just to add her family meeting him knowing all about him and that he is married is not a good thing. To me it says they want to meet their daughters potential partner who is stable and a good husband and father so will be so to their daughter. Many parents do not care that their children date married men. They probably see him as someone to care for her with her health issues. OP this screams of a set-up and I would run the other way. She is not stupid either, she knows exactly what she is doing. She is not naive and neither is your husband. To me she is husband shopping and your husband put himself on the clearance rack for her. I would bet my house if they aren't physically involved already they will be on their romantic trip away together.

OP you deserve better than this disingenuous man and his lies.

You could always show him this thread?

Ugh these “emotional affairs” “work wife” “best mate” relationships are so selfish. It’s horrible to everyone concerned, apart from the two people who just basically eye fuck each other every day.

Hi OP. I’m so sorry you’re going through this!

From what I have read so far is that this is very very out of character for your DH?
the fact that he has threatened suicide (leaving his wife and children behind) is a sign that he has deeper feelings for her. Would he behave the same way if the roles were reversed, and she asked him to not speak to you again? Would he “end it all” then?
it seems VERY intense.
also is his mental health ok in general? Is it bigger than just feeling a bit sad that you’re being a “meanie” in his eyes? Could there be a logical explanation and he is going through a crisis?

the whole meeting her family thing too… like what the… I bet that was like stepping into a different dimension.

i think she is egging him on, loving the attention and the esteem of bagging a married man ( yes some gals are into that, why, I do not know)

I don’t think forcing him to cut ties with her is the right way to do it, he will only keep it a secret and still see her anyway.

I think the affair has already happened, maybe not sexual but definitely emotional.

my DH has a similar sounding hobby, that involves women. He also works with lots of women. Any friendship over the years has been a random text here or there or “can you be arsed with this meeting today” kind of text.

say he stops… can you trust him again? I know I wouldn’t.

get your ducks in a row now. Not to be negative but unfortunately, I think your world is about to implode.

I would be seeking legal advice and hiring a good solicitor.

reading texts messages on your husband’s phone is not supposed to make you upset!!

get your big girl knickers on, stay strong.
Build your wall and do not let him knock it down x

She was worried 'it was her'

She knows and he knows they are both hurting you, and neither of them give a shit, do not expect any mercy from either of them.
The context of this hobby is important as in how well he has been able to gaslight you, clearly she knows she is a drain on your time but they are dressing it up as the most important passtime ever, he's 48, grow up, it's not like he's going to make money and a career out of it.

All this hobby is, is a marriage ender.

And her booking the venue and accomodation shows how they are complicit in excluding and lying to you, he will be framing you as the jealous, envious of a younger woman paranoid wife, and she will be pacifying him on how hard it must be to have an albertross around his neck.

Fuck that shit, who wants their own husband to pit them against a younger woman.

Think ahead do not allow this woman to gain access to your children's inheritance, your husband is a fool and I have a feeling this woman is quite manipulative, she's pulling his strings. He's clearly in a tangle worried to upset her, threatening S, sounds like her family is also pressurising him to conform to little Miss Hobby's wishes.

He's a complete coward and not worth having

You’ve had so much good advice and I have nothing useful to add but I am sending you strength. He’s a selfish, nasty bastard and you deserve better.

This ^

Yeah - her booking it was a red flag. He couldn’t book it could he or you’d wonder where the money was.

This is a great observation as it is such a powerful inflection point where everything could have been so different.

There’s a moment in the book The French Lieutenant’s Woman where the male lead character is with his fiancé and chooses not to mention seeing a mysterious woman. By saying nothing he creates a secret which grows and grows, leading to his total limerence and betrayal.

In choosing not to tell her that first time he feels the moment to normalise it has gone, almost giving himself permission to keep it under wraps.

He said he'd commit suicide if you made him stop his hobby and seeing her?

I don’t believe for one second he was going to CS. He said it to be manipulative and make him the victim.

You tell him what you need. Cutting contact and blocking the OW. No meet ups of any kind with her. No to the over night. If he mentions CS again you call an ambulance. You tell them he says he wants to CS and are worried. He will either get the help he needs or will wake up and realise you mean what you say.

There are some single women who get a kick from being the OW.
I wouldn't be surprised if OP's DH had said that he and his wife were no longer in a 'marital' relationship and were just best friends and housemates.

Hope this isn't the case.