Cliche, caught husband watching porn

[Krispiecakes24]

First time poster, long time lurker. I've read so many people receiving words of wisdom here and I can't believe I'm posting. Here goes.

Married 16 years, together 20 and 2 DC. Found my husband's phone in the bathroom of our holiday apartment, still on and showing lesbian porn. He came back to gwt it and saw me so he knows I know. I am so shocked and upset. I know some people are ok with porn but we've never used it in our relationship and never discussed that he uses it sometimes. It's made me feel ugly, unwanted, undesirable, stupid and naive. He's not who I thought he was.

Cliche, we've been having less sex lately for the usual reasons - young kids, busy lives, too tired but we've been speaking about it (at my insistence) and we've always been able to speak about anything. I get upset about lack of affection from him, I feel like he jumps straight to sex when he's barely touched me for days and I hate it.

We've talked tonight once DC were in bed and he was almost defensive, said most men watch porn, it's a fantasy and not real life and he's really ashamed. I told him how it made me feel and he said nothing. I honestly don't know where we go from here. We're working on other issues and have looked into marriage counselling but never got round to booking anything.

He's ruined our holiday (I feigned feeling unwell to explain my mood to DCs and missed out on a sunny afternoon with them) and I feel he's ruined us. Am I being melodramatic? He's sleeping in another room tonight, not sure how long we'll get away with that in front of DC. I love our family so much, I'm just devastated.

Please can you link to this research?

Or is this a generalisation to fit your narrative?

Please dont spout opinions like facts, when actually youre just trying to manipulate someone into your set of values

I think I have yet to meet a man who doesn’t ever watch porn. And before people start with the “raise your bar” nonsense, it’s not my bar. I’m not watching it. But research suggest around 70% of men have or do. A lot of men are visual and lack imagination I think!
Personally, I don’t take umbrage because of the sex element, I do not like the exploitation of women though and that does give me the ick. If it became an “instead of” rather than an occasional “add on” to intimacy with me, I would be unhappy, as you are op.
I do not think you ought to bury your feelings. Your feelings matter, are very valid and he needs to acknowledge them. I do think that counselling would be beneficial for both of you.

There has been lots of research on the negative effects of porn use.
It's easy enough to find if you use Google.

I think it's pretty rich accusing me of trying to " manipulate " opinion given the agenda of the " all men watch porn" brigade who want to convince people that porn use is normal and consequence free.

Porn would be a deal breaker for me, and for many other women.

Nobody else can advise you really. It’s your decision whether this is relationship ending or not. 💐

Knock yourself out. Why don’t you ask politely for research links before making negative assumptions?

1. Longitudinal study (2006–2012 Panel Data):
Husbands who viewed pornography more frequently in 2006 reported significantly lower marital quality by 2012, even controlling for earlier quality and sexual satisfaction. The negative effect applied to men – but not women, who sometimes even reported slightly higher marital quality with early use.

2. Couple-level longitudinal & cross‑sectional study (NJ sample, 1,234 individuals):
Watching porn alone was associated with lower relationship adjustment and commitment, less emotional intimacy, and less relationship satisfaction in men.

3. Discrepancy-based study (1,755 couples):
Greater differences between partners in porn usage were tied to lower relationship satisfaction and stability, more negative communication, and higher relational aggression – effects primarily driven by male behaviour mismatches.

4. Poulsen, Busby & Galovan (2013; 617 couples):
Male pornography use correlated with poorer sexual quality for both partners, while female use was sometimes positively linked to female sexual quality.

5. Cambridge Medicine longitudinal sample (Psychological Medicine journal):
After controlling for couple fixed effects, increases in men’s porn use over time predicted decreased partner-reported sexual satisfaction, while women’s usage showed no significant change in partner satisfaction.

'If only my wife paid me more attention I wouldn't need to exploit other women'

Just as well you're not trying to justify it though eh.

She said exactly what she meant – it has been documented that men who regularly use porn are less able to sustain relationships, so therefore an increased number of these men will be single. It’s not difficult to interpret.

Have you ever told him porn would be a dealbreaker for you? I can understand how against it you are, but at the same time it’s his private business and he clearly doesn’t share the same personal views on the ethics of it. If he doesn’t know that’s a red line in your relationship you can’t really blame him for having crossed it, but this is an opportunity to be clear about what you can and can’t accept him doing. If you cannot continue in the relationship knowing that he has already done it then that’s absolutely your prerogative as well, but it is a lot to sacrifice.

I was trying to explain rather than justify. I try to be ethical - I'm most likely to watch a bit of some old film like Emmanuelle rather than anything recent - but I accept that some would still see this as unacceptable even if my wife has said "do what you like, I'm busy".

Everything else aside, I couldn't be with a man who couldn't use their imagination for a wank personally. All this 'men are visual creatures' horseshit is basically just 'boys will be boys'. Not only does it not actually excuse grim behaviour, it is also misandrist and reductary towards men.

Men are not animals. They make choices informed by information just as we all do. It's well known how damaging the porn industry is to women.

That being said, am I going to judge someone for having dabbled on occasion? No. We all have different weaknesses. And darkness.

But you have every right not to be ok with this darkness. He wasn't honest about it and didn't even have the decency to hide it well.

It's basically the equivalent of if you were a vegan for animal kindness purposes and he said he was too for years... and then you find he's been sneaking burgers behind your back consistently. Dishonest, immoral and (by your standards) paying for cruelty and abuse.

Partially agree with this - the phrase 'the wank bank' literally comes from men. Their imaginations are fine.

Literally nothing there that states male porn users are unable to maintain stable relationships

There may be correlations, or some research suggests, but nothing as definitive as the statement I referred to.

Also even taken the studies you mention at face value ( although youve not given many useful details for validation) but a sample size of 1000 couples against the whole world isn't exactly useful. Especially as it doesn't mention socio economic backgrounds, religion, accessibility, ages or anything else that would have a bearing on any sort of empirical findings

That’s a relief. Thanks for clarifying. It would be ridiculous but if you’ve been on the internet for any length of time, you’ll be aware that people being ridiculous online isn’t exactly rare!

That’s not what she said though, which is why I was asking for clarification. And she did in fact clarify that it wasn’t what she meant.

The excuse that most men use porn is not good enough or acceptable - the point of the fact is that you, as his wife, do not feel comfortable with porn use. That’s the most important point here.

‘Literally’ eh? How tiresome. Talk about pushing one’s own narrative. As you were – no point discussing with you.

Yeah, I think you know exactly what she meant. You simply wanted to make a rather arbitrary point.

You say that you’ve “never discussed it”. Does that mean you’ve never asked him if he uses porn, or that you’ve asked him & he said no?

FWIW I do think you’re melodramatic to consider your 20 year relationship to be in tatters over some lesbian porn. Of course his use of it was opportunistic, every time someone masturbates it’s opportunistic. Also, It’s an intrinsically private thing. I wouldn’t expect a partner to declare that they’ve been wanking to porn if it isn’t something we’ve ever discussed!

It’s probably worth getting to the bottom of the lack of sex in your relationship. Is his porn use a reaction to that, or the cause of it? Are there other things you would be happy with him masturbating to I.e erotic fiction (written or audio) etc.

The lack of intimacy without an expectation of sex is a problem and would annoy me too. I want to be able to touch and be touched by my DH without him instantly thinking we’re about to have sex.

If you’re to overcome it, it will need to be a team effort I think.

said most men watch porn, it's a fantasy and not real life

All those things are true. It also doesn't mean that he finds you unattractive.

However, that doesn't mean you have to think it's OK. It's entirely up to you whether you can accept it or not. You're completely entitled to be upset if this is something that's a deal-breaker for you.

There are a lot of sweeping statements made about porn on Mumsnet that are simply not true. For example, most men who watch porn are not addicted to it, have perfectly healthy relationships and quite simply just want a visual stimulus to have a wank, which is very normal human sexual behaviour. Again - that doesn't mean you to have to think it's OK! You are completely entitled to hate it, and to feel that you can't tolerate this in your relationship - there is nothing wrong with feeling the way you feel.

However, it's not especially helpful for strangers to be egging you on to end your marriage by essentially telling you that your husband is an abusive dysfunctional porn-addicted monster because of this. Essentially, I don't think Mumsnet is the best place to get advice on this because it's absolutely full of extreme exaggerations and generalisations that will not help you and will simply make you feel worse than you do already.

None of this says that men who watch porn are less able to sustain relationships. There might certainly be a correlation between a relationship being unhappy and increased porn use, but that doesn't imply causation. Sure, in some cases it might be that porn is what makes the relationship unhappy - it might equally imply that it's the other way round, ie that an unhappy relationship tends to lead to an increase in porn use.

Also worth noting that studies suggest that somewhere between 40 and 60% of women also use porn. It's higher for men (something like 90% I think) but it's unhelpful and reductive to suggest that men are the only ones who enjoy this stuff.

Saying 'most men watch porn' is such a weird argument to defend porn usage. Let's say this is true...why does that make it ok? If most men use prostitutes...does this somehow help a man's argument to say this to his partner when he's been caught?

Saying most men do it or that porn is normal for men because they are very visual is akin to calling them mindless animals who don't have the ability to control their urges. And this is simply not true. The ones who engage in it are making a choice. It is not harmless. I'm sure men are aware that this choice will cause damage to their relationship or they wouldn't choose to hide it from their partner.

There are many instances where it gets to a point where porn is preferred over intimacy with a partner, or the user becomes desensitized to regular sex and can't perform properly without the visual stimulation. And it often leads to engaging into more inappropriate behaviors as evidenced by threads we see here on the regular.

This all makes it cheating IMO.

Not all men... but most men?

It never fails to astonish me how naive some Mumsnet users are.

OP, I think you’re being a bit melodramatic here. Loosen up your general WiFi filters, and get proper controls on your kids individual devices. Maybe if your husband could watch porn at home he wouldn’t have to sneak around.

I agree. I’ve never met a man who doesn’t or hasn’t watched porn.
All the women I know (and there have been a few) who’ve confidently said to me oh my husband doesn’t do that, have backtracked. It’s literally laughable. Except it’s not funny.

OP you are not being melodramatic and of course it hurts. It is horrible to feel inadequate and that your DH has kept things from you. I am sorry that this has happened. FWIW, this is not a reflection of you or your marriage (see above) rather him.