Is OLD as hard for men as it is for women

[Beanfry]

I keep reading about how OLD is a cess pit for women, that there are no good men out there. But are men finding it the same in reverse, or are there really 100 women to every good man?

starting to think about dipping my toe back into the dating world, but the stories of how bad OLD is is putting me off. For context i turned 40 last week, so my dating age range would be 37 - 45

Yes that is a problem. Maybe a 'dating' app that went with the friends first advertising route might be the next big app.

You are going on a date with someone wondering if it would work romantically rather than just friends. I really just wouldnt want to lead someone on. But then that's where meeting people through hobbies is good as you can get to know the person over time to gauge if you might have any romantic interest in them.

That’s maybe where chat rooms were good as far as meeting people online goes. I’m too young to really remember them when they weren’t cesspits of pervs but I know a couple of couples who met on MSN and yahoo chat rooms in the early 2000s, became friends, no pressure to date, now they are married because they were just completely themselves with no expectations and fell in love with each other for who they are. In mutual interest chat rooms I think it was. I think some of the members of the rooms would organise meet ups.

I think that’s where the dating culture is going wrong these days personally. It’s all about dating and coming across as charming and false to woo all sorts of different people. Never about meeting just because you enjoy someone’s chat and just going with it and seeing what happens.

I know people looking for romance have always put on acts and that’s just human nature, but there was a lot less choice then and people actually spent more time with each other in person which they don’t now.

So what statistics do we believe as it comes across like people have more choice and are dating lots of people they have met online but then at the same time apparently its very hard for most men to get matches and hardly go on any dates. I'm not sure what to make of it.

They are dating lots of people they have met online but I’m betting that’s because it’s virtually the only way people meet to date now, or at least it seems that way. Incidentally, there are more single people now. There will be multiple reasons for this but I’ve no doubt apps are playing a significant part in it. They’re designed to keep people swiping. People are too scared to settle even in RL because someone hotter/better might pop up on their phone!

I’ve tried searching for websites and apps where I can just meet people for the sake of meeting them, they’re practically non existent nowadays unless you’re looking to exclusively date. I’m of the attitude where if I meet friends, great! If I meet a partner, bonus! But there is nowhere to meet people online now other than dating apps. You have to just go out and hope for the best like the old days 😂 which is fine, really. We should be doing more of that! But if you live in a pretty remote place like me it’s a bit harder.

I should add here, a while ago I got chatting to someone on Tinder. Seemed perfectly normal but no interest but we ended up chatting still. He tells me he's actually into kink and organises 'events' with his 'partner'. So it got me thinking again, someone chatting to him thinking there's potential for monogamy/traditional relationship when all this is hidden away. He himself said its a different part of his life which he had. I guess he would have shared more on another site like say Feeld.

Another seemed fine then we speak on the phone about organising a date and he tells me id be number 4 in his group. I was confused but essentially he's got his own harem of fwb. I asked him why he didnt put ENM on his profile but he said he didnt want to put people off.

I despair.

I think that's definitely the case.

You see a lot of the tips online which is to join a hobby group and then when asked "what, how and where", people don't actually know, because they're non-existent. The usual tip is "have you tried joining a hiking group?" 😅

Friendship groups actually help people socialise, can alleviate loneliness, but there seems to be a reluctance to advertise them. Whether they're just private facebook groups, I don't know.

There's still a general reluctance to accept reality, people just refuse to accept that men get next to no likes on OLD and people seem to think that all these hobby groups exist.

"I think you are really fit" - high school, circa 1988, this was the default question. 😆

So if I'm hoping to date someone who remembers 1988, do you think that would be a good opening line? I'm skeptical, but open to opinions more objective than my own.

I think you are really fit
You're fit but my god don't you know it

People either refuse to believe that most men get next to no likes, or they do accept it, but put all the blame on the men for having rubbish pictures and boring profiles. Whereas women who use heavy makeup, filters, go catfishing etc somehow get a pass.

After a long break of about 2 years last night I reactivated my profile on one app just out of curiosity.

First message ‘wow babe do u like tall men and where heals’ (SIC)

First like I get his bio reads - I enjoy curry, going down the pub and watching Spurs.

And then several more likes from men 10/15/20 years my senior who make my 83 year old dad look well kept!

I can’t see me lasting too long but watch this space

If that's my best competition, I'm utterly baffled why I'm finding OLD so fruitless. 🤣/😭

They are undoubtedly bad profiles. Obviously the messaging stage is much further than most men get. There is a clear imbalance between the sexes on the apps (which is just a reality we have to accept) and female profiles can be just as bad, a lot of them have no text or the usual "I hope my dog likes you" response, but for women there is no need for a profile as one photograph is enough (most don't even put their name up, just an initial). Someone on here has even said that a blank photograph is enough.

Essentially what I'm saying is that both sexes can have bad profiles, women want to date a profile, men want to date a photograph. So women don't need to bother with a profile, but men need an exceptional one.

My profile doesn’t have any of the cliches that hade been mentioned in this thread.

Ive got 6 photos, not filtered, all within last 9 months including 2 full length ones, I’ve filled out my bio and been clear what I’m looking for but as you say all of that probably a waste as 99% on the men will only look at first photo and swipe.

Ive always put something in my bio which will show if they’ve actually read the profile when they message - I can count on my fingers the ones who have bothered to read.

It's hard to know how people use the apps and me giving tips isn't great (because I can count the number of likes I've received on one finger).

But if we know that the majority of men swipe yes to everyone and there is no way to differentiate between those who have and haven't read the profile matching with men who liked you first is probably pointless.

Personally from my experience (and looking like 80% of men) I would say that you're highly likely to receive a match if you like them first. Personally there's a 90% likelihood that if I woman liked me she would get a match because it's just so rare to receive any matches.

It is true. I know many women who aren't bothered about height and looks. Once you get past 50 they seriously aren't the biggest concern. Many many women who are around the five foot mark actively don't want very tall men and are more than happy with 5'6.

However, it's very rural around here and I must admit that if you didn't drive you wouldn't get many matches as nobody wants to have to do all the travelling and there's no public transport.

But height and bulging muscles aren't attractive to every woman. And those who are financially secure won't be put off by low earnings, as long as you're happy to maintain separate households. I think it's hard when you get passed over continually - I am objectively very plain and would never go on a dating site like Tinder, where a picture is all you get. But places where there is a proper profile where humour and intelligence shine through, and even the less attractive are in with a shout.

Yes as a woman you get lots of likes and matches easily enough. The hard part is once it gets past that stage. Which is the same for everyone, but for different reasons of course

Essentially what I'm saying is that both sexes can have bad profiles, women want to date a profile, men want to date a photograph

This is true. There's data on this showing that men on OLD are just going off the photo. Women will primarily go off the photo but then use the profile to filter out ones they don't like e.g. bad spelling, don't like their job, too short etc.

You can use a site where you make the first move (like bumble) You don’t need to use Tinder and low grade sites.

@Teanbiscuits33 That’s maybe where chat rooms were good as far as meeting people online goes. I’m too young to really remember them when they weren’t cesspits of pervs but I know a couple of couples who met on MSN and yahoo chat rooms in the early 2000s, became friends, no pressure to date, now they are married because they were just completely themselves with no expectations and fell in love with each other for who they are. In mutual interest chat rooms I think it was. I think some of the members of the rooms would organise meet ups. I think that’s where the dating culture is going wrong these days personally. It’s all about dating and coming across as charming and false to woo all sorts of different people. Never about meeting just because you enjoy someone’s chat and just going with it and seeing what happens.

The issue though is that nowadays, that never progresses beyond pleasant friendship, and if the man does try to escalate that friendship into a relationship, then it's generally not considered socially acceptable; indeed, there was a thread on mumsnet in which a lot of women expressed revulsion and disgust at their male friends who had expressed a romantic interest.

This is why OLD is popular as it gets around this problem entirely. It's acceptable to express an interest in women on OLD, because obviously, the very fact that they signed up to OLD in the first place means that they are looking for romantic partners.

I completely understand this, but I still do think it has major drawbacks in that the whole ‘numbers game’ mentality doesn’t really work because people aren’t
really getting to know people naturally. It’s all or nothing on the first meeting, whereas before OLD when people met at work or dating locals in their home towns they would generally get to know people better through socialisation and were probably a little less rigid in their criteria.

It’s completely right that people are selective and have limits and boundaries but it seems that these days people view a LOT as a red flag and completely discount people with whom they don’t feel an immediate strong attraction because they know there’s hundreds more where they came from, or on the other side people have false senses of connection with people they don’t really know, so it’s a lose lose situation because most people end up perpetually still single or unhappy.

I’ve always preferred friendship first because there is no pressure, no changing yourself to impress. I know this is not always easy now but it’s a shame.

There were always lonely hearts ads in the local papers - obviously nothing like the numbers on OLD, but there have always been some who met up that way, whether or not it led anywhere.

I've made lots of friends out in the wild, but rarely more. Some of us need help meeting people, be it an app or something else.

We do. I absolutely agree with that, but I think dating apps in their current form need to be phased out for something better - what form they will take, who knows? But they don’t work and they’ve had their day now. They’re designed to keep people single but also they’re so dire that they’re losing popularity. Someone needs to think of a different model.

I think part of the problem with OLD is men may think women are on there looking for romantic partners. But they also seem to think they are desperate and ‘gagging for it’. Judging by the horror stories on here!!

As a tall woman, I'd say men overwhelmingly prefer women who are shorter than them. I wish it were otherwise, but that's simply how it is.

I am now married to a lovely man who is half an inch shorter than me. He's lovely and secure in himself. He's very much the exception though.