Is OLD as hard for men as it is for women

[Beanfry]

I keep reading about how OLD is a cess pit for women, that there are no good men out there. But are men finding it the same in reverse, or are there really 100 women to every good man?

starting to think about dipping my toe back into the dating world, but the stories of how bad OLD is is putting me off. For context i turned 40 last week, so my dating age range would be 37 - 45

A short man who isn't traditionally good looking will get more than his share of women if he is engaging and funny. A lot of men don't even try.

Obviously people's experiences shape their opinions, but I think there's a general lack of understanding between the differences faced by men and women on OLD.

I think people fail to understand that men generally don't receive any likes at all on OLD, whilst I'd be surprised if there was any woman on OLD who never received any likes.

So generally the experience of men is never matching, whilst women match and then have to suffer the experience of dreadful messaging with men, or perhaps a lacklustre date.

I’ve not read the whole thread but there’s surely a major mismatch between what most men and most women want.

If you’re a woman just after a lot of no strings flings, you could surely do pretty well? Conversely if you’re a man after a serious long-term commitment, you could do pretty well if you’re reasonably attractive with no major flags?

In the outside world, yes. On a Tinder profile it's not going to go very far if you're not physically attractive on your photo.

Only fake ones can possibly be objectionable, all others being lovely 🙂

This is incel nonsense from the Very Online.

Except thats not true at all.

I've been OLD for about six years and it would appear that I've broken many rules. The first one is height. A man under the magical six foot tall might as well not bother.

The other rule is money. Now I work in a primary school doing SEN and I've looked after kids for over 20 years. There's no six figure a year wages in education, and the last one is im not medically allowed to drive. I won't be picking you up in a Bentley. Sad times. Im just not going to be in the top ten percent women are chasing.

I've had zero matches in six years and im currently on five dating sites. I go to the gym three times a week for a hour and a half each time. It doesn't make any difference.

There are lots of men out there who are simply surplus to requirements, so recently I've been enjoying opera and theatre on my own and I've been on a tour of Scotlands clearances and enjoyed some Scottish history and a nice Ceilidh.

Well the incels like to spout this statistic. Would like to see a more rigorous study.

It's actually much less than 20% going by studies by the sites themselves on the percentage women swipe on.

Some men don't deserve to get any likes. If they honestly think a blurred photo up the nostrils with half their head cut off is the best way to advertise themselves, they're just telling you they probably don't ever clean the bathroom or change the sheets.

It's not difficult to take a photo these days - you don't have to take the film down to Boots and wait a week to see if any them are any good like 30 years ago. They're almost definitely using a phone to use the app (I did have one bloke who said he only used it on his laptop,) so they could take 100 photos in not much time, experimenting with lighting and camera angles, but no, they choose a backdrop of an open loo and broken window blinds.

And they'll be the ones illiterately complaining no one ever responds, probably with no self-reflection about why no one is responding, how they're presenting themselves.

Having said that, a friend who is good-looking, intelligent and good in bed (I tested) did complain about lot of sex-workers and cat-fishing. He has found someone now, which I'm pleased about, she makes him happy. (We aren't in the same country, else I would have been keen myself.)

I have met some great men, though it hasn't worked out for one reason or another. I've also met some horrors. One guy complimented me on looking like my photos- not a compliment I could return. He later admitted his were 10 years old (this was the least of his errors to be fair!) Another admitted to being 10 years older than his profile. "But you wouldn't have been interested if I'd said I was over 60." No, but why do you think lying is an attractive trait?

My current profile just has 3 unfiltered photos. I was planning to update the rest later. I've still had a lot of interest, including men saying, "you're just what I need," to which I reply, if I can be bothered to reply at all, "how do you know? You know nothing about me."

To be fair, I've never been sent an unsolicited dick pic, but almost everyone I've got chatting to has asked. They are so terribly proud of them... like a three year-old who's done a big poo.

pp was right about some going out to get free meals. Embarrassing but true! I also have a friend (stunning) who considers herself a high value date and expects to be wined and dined on any date. She picks gorgeous men but rarely any chemistry yet she does get a fun date all paid for.

Just a note on the male photos following the post from @EBearhug…

I have noticed very recently… a huge amount of male photos which are obviously generated through AI (once you have seen a few it’s easy to spot) it’s still “their face” but it’s so obviously AI generated as the backdrop and other things really stand out. So even if a man looks really well dressed/groomed in his photos, it could be a complete fake.

Again, I have no doubt there are women on the apps who are doing the same- but I don’t see their profiles.

Challenging time to date online at the moment.

Plenty do. And plenty list all the things they dont want. It comes across as very hostile.

But then again, I'd say 70% of the profiles I see "like meals out, or nights in on the sofa, and a walk in the country,
especially if there's a pub at the end." I really don't know how to start a conversation with nothing meaningful to respond to. I've never bothered to try it, but even when there's so little in a profile to riff off, "I think you're really fit" doesn't seem likely to be any good opener. 🤣

It's worse for men, except for maybe the top 10-20% most attractive. Reality is the other 80% don't get a look in. I know I'm below average looks wise, but not offensively ugly. I did old for about 2 years and could count on two hands the number of women I matched with (after swiping right on about 90%). I even paid for premium on the app, so I could see everyone who'd swiped right on me, but the only ones I hadn't already matched with were significantly older, and several trans women (not my thing).

Went on to go on first dates with 4 of the women I matched with. Two, possibly 3, were openly juggling multiple men already, and the 4th was a complete catfish. Looked nothing like her photos, either heavily filtered or very old. Claimed to be my age, but was at least 10 years older, if not 15. Talked about her three kids, but then slipped up and mentioned her fourth, who was only a couple of years younger than me.

I've only got a few female friends that have done old (and discussed it), and they've had completely the opposite experience - lots of matches, and plenty of dates. So many in fact, that they never settled, as they just kept getting more offers and their mindset seemed to be 'there will be someone even better to match with next weekend'. Now, when a woman tells me that she's 'dating' I understand that as a modern way of saying that she's playing the field via old. Nothing against that, but was never what I was looking for myself.

I did a bit better with dating groups on Facebook. Felt a lot more natural mixing in a group setting than one on one messaging. More opportunities to converse and flirt with women there that with traditional old would have just swiped left based on physical attractiveness. In groups, my humour and personality outshone my mediocre looks.

Anyway, I've ended up in a relationship with a woman I met and got to know in everyday life.

I’m sure other will think differently about this, and I’ve read some interesting posts on groups online about stating what you “dont want” or “won’t accept” on a dating bio…

For me I think it’s a negative way to start off any communication, and the well versed narcissist types out there will just use it as a way to try and “fake” what they aren’t… so it’s not what I’d do. It’s upto me to let people show who they are and to be discerning enough to decide if they are someone I want to talk to or meet up with.

I agree though, unless there’s something really unique on someone’s bio or something that you really share a common interest in…. Finding an opening line can be tricky!

@Beanfry I keep reading about how OLD is a cess pit for women, that there are no good men out there

What's notable is that you said "no good men," rather than simply "no men." This indicates that you are finding men, but you are turning them down because they don't meet your standards.

For the experience that men have with OLD, it's a simple case of "there are no women." Men will typically swipe right on every single profile, and even then, it's very rare to get matched with a woman.

When a man is matched with a woman, there will be (at most) 1 or 2 lines of dialogue. The overwhelming majority of women will simply ghost after a few lines of conversation.

That's about the full extent of the experience men will have with OLD. Nothing will ever progress to a meeting of any kind.

There's some good points on this thread.

My impression in real life is some men and women have fairly rigid unrealistic behaviour and high expectations and find it hard to socialise normally - dating is just an aspect of that.

Of course dating, life, is easier if you're top 5% and a super extroverted alpha person or something.

But if you're out there doing stuff, meeting people, including apps, being patient and doing trial and error, you'll find some interest. Unless you have unrealistic expectations.

Do all couples and families and friendship groups look perfect, with the man over six feet tall?

I'm kind of quirky and have struggled socially and romantically to find my place at times.

but I still try to engage and learn and even if I've had some negative experiences I try to own the situation and improve my own judgement.

Completely agree with @jackdunnock strategy which is to try different things, review as you go along, and go for the Plan B if you need to.

I had an absolutely dire online dating period a couple years ago.

One guy sent me aubergine emoji.

One guy suggested coffee...but only in his hotel room (it was pretty far from me too, and a cheap hotel, and he indicated he expected me to enthusiastically pay for transport there).

Someone arranged a meet then flaked.

So I did more real life socialising, improved my confidence, got some travel in, talked to people, randomly came back to the apps.

Met someone I dated for a while and a much more positive experience. Not perfect but that didn't mean it wasn't enjoyable.

In my experience men put up the most hideous photos, so I reckon most of the problem is that not that they aren’t attractive, but they post very unflattering pictures to the point that when I land on their profile I’m left wondering what the fucking hell they were thinking to put that up when they are trying to sell themselves? Most of them don’t even attempt a smile.

Looks do matter to an extent, but generally, if a kind, intelligent and funny personality shines through in a bio and if they send an engaging opening message, I’d respond. Most profiles have really bad, miserable or scruffy photos, no bio to really speak of, and really boring general opening messages, and any attempt to engage ends up with really boring follow ups where I end up carrying the conversation. I gave up OLD ages ago!

I think the problem with dating in general as well is too many people are playing a numbers game and expecting sparks to fly on a first date and using that as the sole indicator of compatibility, so they’re giving nobody the chance. If more people were open to friendships that have the potential to develop over time instead of wanting an instant attraction every time (which can be false) then people might actually discover that people they would otherwise reject are good for them! Everyone is busy trying to force things or, on the other hand, finding some of the most silly reasons to be put off someone and self sabotaging.

Edited to add: They are either really bad photos or photos with 30+ year old men either posing topless at the gym or doing stupid hand gestures in the street, wearing thick gold chains or tracksuits and/or have a joint hanging out of their gobs as if all of the above makes them look cool like a bad boy that they think all the women want when really they just look like a chav who needs to grow up 😂

I agree with a lot of what you say. The problem I have with there being no attraction is- how long do you give it? You don't want to lead a guy on. What if the attraction never comes. And then if you've been dating a while and you have to keep rejecting his advances then he will feel more and more rejected. And would it be wise to ever be honest with a guy and say I'm dating you because I like your personality but I dont like you physically.

Tinder has been listening to you and now allows women to 'filter out"any man under 5'7. The feedback has been overwhelming positive and Tinder will be looking at other filters to make women happy.

Because you can't possibly be happy with anyone under 5"7.

I imagine more men will just lie about their height!

Do people have to pay to filter on tinder?

This is the point I’m making though - If people didn’t view the apps as ‘dating apps’ but more as just ways to meet people, then there would be no actual pressure to match romantically with people, you just get to meet people and go with it. Years ago when the internet didn’t give people endless options at the click of a button, people seemed to stick with one person more, rather than now when everyone is more disposable and the smallest thing that someone decides they don’t like is a dealbreaker. People are too rigid now.

Obviously, if there are major red flags or someone really isn’t your type of person then you don’t see them again in any capacity, but so many people seem to write people off for the tiniest things, or equally, they think they’ve met the one because they’ve got such great chemistry then it turns out that ‘chemistry’ was actually all a facade and the date just mirrored the other!

Meeting someone once or twice isn’t always going to tell you whether they’re good for you or not. I’ve only ever fell in love with men I’ve been friends with first because people unconsciously change themselves to date, or say silly things out of nerves etc - or on the flip side, people overlook incompatibility issues because they want to be with someone desperately.

I don’t think the numbers game thing works, it’s like a checklist. How can you get to know someone if you’re trying to date multiple others at once? If you’re want a partner to spend the rest of your life with, it makes sense to take your time.

@Teanbiscuits33 I think in an ideal world you'd be friends first. I met my best relationship online but we were friends first then it progressed but we didnt initially put our best foot forward, we were just ourselves. I think if you put the onus on 'this has to be a relationship now', it just means people just swipe left too quickly.

I'm not sure im coming across with clarity here but I remember someone saying online dating was all about working out why someone was single.

This is exactly what I mean. If the person isn’t an absolute arsehole and you’ve had a nice time, give them a chance. If you don’t end up together, so be it. I’m convinced most people who are in unhappy relationships are because they’ve rushed into things with someone they weren’t actually compatible with and turned down others that they were compatible with but didn’t realise it. I mean I know relationships are more complex than that but apps and too many choices have completely ruined human connection.

I've dated a few men around 5'6 to 5'7 and I'm 5'8. That's not what attraction means for me