DH wants DM rental income

[MMMMMBacon]

Summarised backstory first -

Married for 21 years and together 23/24 years. I am almost 47 Y/o. I am the higher earner of the two of us though we both earn decently - My only gap in work being a year Mat break 15 years ago. No second child mainly cos he is very tight fisted with money , even mine. I have always compromised and led a simple life - no fancy holidays etc , no fancy eating out or splurges with shopping. My only 'extravagance' from his perspective is I wanted our son to go a fee paying school and he does. Both our mortgage and DS school fees as well council tax, utilities, both phones go from my account that he also has a card to. His salary goes to another account that he saves , as he says, for 'our' retirement - he does afford himself little treats from there. He buys the groceries from there for us. He doesnt like eating out.

My mother has willed her house to me and is now almost 70. Last year she had rot and flooding in one part of the house and her situation was pitiable, staying at a friends house as the roof in one part of the house was horrific. She lives comfortably on a pension and some savings in the bank but didnt have enough to rebuild or even renovate parts of the house and it was ancient/crumbling. She thought about selling it to a small developer who would build it up as 2 units and then sell one and give her one unit. which I would get in future was her plan, it was H who said the developer seems very dodgy blah blah blah , finally long story short - I paid the money for the renovation and repairs which was under 50K (with him okaying it at the time) - now he says my mother should pay him 300 GBP every month for the 50K since he refused to free up any liquidity for me to have the 50k ( we have other assets we could have sold, and I had other plans for financing it myself) but he insisted at the time he pay the 50K from his severance pay he got last year (he got a new job immediately) - I told him I will give him the 300 GBP but he insists my mother pay it out of her monthly pension and savings. presumably my money is all his anyway and not he wants more. AIBU ?

Yes I have a whole file now, took ppts everything as well to a locked cabinet in guest room - going to keep copies at work.

Yes, absolutely on separate accounts - at the very least, we have given up on holidays and eating out , and any better clothes than the cheapest retail - all to do stuff like lose 18K on taxes that could easily have been planned around by using the 18 month tax window on selling off the first house when a second house is bought in SCO.

The ick that we both feel against each other is a whole other thing , and per my list of conditions earlier, as soon as I have separated my account out - is that 6-12 months counselling before we can even consider a joint bedroom again. He will have to agree to us paying for counselling if he doesnt want to divorce, even if the counsellor is the world's worst counsellor - hey, it will still be worth something more than the amount we have lost in various poor financial decisions in the past it would seem. Any abusiveness or name calling as a reaction to the conditions, and I call the police and request them to take him away at least for a week - how would he face his employer and his reputation as an upstanding member of the local community again then

I would have either just let it slide on friday and been back to BAU on the day after, if not for putting a thread on here - and getting even this far - thank you so much mumsnetters. The kindness of strangers...... God bless you all ...words fail me ......

Trying to scoot between England and Scotland would be challenging and expensive, it also would waste precious time every week DS needs for academic work. I’d move to or near a Scottish city if you can - I agree it’s easier to be single in a city - Edinburgh and Glasgow have so much going on.

@Mirabai , yes love Edinburgh heart, spent the whole day wandering around happily there yesterday with DS, can never get bored there.....

Had you read the messages I posted this afternoon , basically we have wasted 18K on not understanding that a buy to let property investment in SCO, means losing almost 18K on LBTT/additional tax whatchamicallit. I could have used that for everything I have been asking for - not to mention all the prepaying of the mortgage probably means losing out on tax free ISA savings. I feel so dumb.

And then we ended up selling the first property anyway, having understood the 40pc tax on rental income in SCO.......

It’s not you who’s dumb, it’s your financially illiterate husband. My advice is get out and divorce him, taking 50% of the assets, before he throws any more money down the drain.

@MMMMMBacon

So if I understand correctly, there is no actual 'retirement savings'. Just his accumulated salary of ~30k sitting in his checking account.

I estimate around 15K at the least - but 25K of the 50K he gave my mum is his - so if we say my forensics missed what he did with at least 10K of the money (and some of the interest on the deposits before those were closed for down payment on the house) - then we are even ?

I can see your reasoning for this and it does make things easier as far as separating the finances now if you can 'ignore' the money in his account under the assumption that you have 25k 'deposited with your mum'. The only thing is that 25k is not 'liquid' and you can't draw on it should you need to. You won't realize that money (may that not be for many years) until your mum's house is sold or you inherit it. And if it's sold to fund her care, you may not see a penny of it. As long as you're at peace with that, then fine.

You also need to realize that it may very well be that if you are still married the house/inheritance will be considered a 'marital asset' and he'll realize a lot more than just getting his 25k back. But I'd consult a solicitor right now to get legal advice on that. Where I live (in the US) an inheritance is NOT considered 'community property' as long as it's never put in a joint account and it's not drawn on in a way that benefits 'the other party'. I think in the UK an inheritance is a joint asset. I have no idea about Scotland, but you should educate yourself.

I don't think prepaying the mortgage was unwise. It's always good to be mortgage free as soon as possible. And if there is no mortgage to pay, you can actually live on relatively little in retirement as long as you don't expect a lot of fancy travel or luxuries. So in that way, him doing that benefits you as well either because of 'cheap' retirement living or a larger share of the equity should you divorce.

Have you decided how you're going to address the 'new' financial arrangement? You've mentioned opening a new account and that he won't like not having access to your money, but are you planning on telling him he's going to have to start ponying up his share of the household costs AND division of labour? It's really important you do that or you are gaining nothing.

Her mother’s not dead and only 70 so inheritance is not relevant right now. If OP divorces now her mother’s estate will go to her entirely.

DH might ask for his 25k back but then he has to split his 30k savings.

I don't think prepaying the mortgage was unwise.

It was unwise because the savings in an ISA were attracting more tax free interest than they were paying on the mortgage.

Yes, he may well be eyeing the 150K property that is my mother's inheritance to me, but then his dad's inheritance to him is like 300K , and I am completely illiterate on inheritance taxes and whatnot, but I think if my inheritance goes into marriage wealth pot, so does his ? my Mother is 70 his dad is 90.

Yes, doing the separate bank account this week, salary already came in last week, so he wont realise and react maybe till last week of July, by which hopefully and happily mine and DSs holiday to mum's will be over without any drama and histrionics - this thread is giving me the courage to - call the police if any drama over the separate bank account of any sort, even if it means the police just come home and leave , and all it has caused is deep shame and embarrassment for both of us. Mainly, hopefully him.

The main thing is the disrespect, control and belittling of the financial arrangement and it all comes back to 'you once wanted to leave the marriage, and you had your eye on another man to move onto if you left....' even though he could have had his eye on plenty, and i just have no proof or confessions - he called me a 'cheap date' after our first few dates and said that was what he liked most about me ...a street / cafe snack , and a walk in the park would do me ...so that's why I was his dream come true I guess. It didnt matter that we dont want the same thing at 32 or 42 that we did at 22.....

I see no other way out unless he agrees to counselling for a year - I have read Jamaisjedors thread many times as the sulking H reminds me of my H - before we had enough money to financially abuse it - his favoured tactic was little boy sulks. Jamais stopped physical relations the first month to make him see it wasnt okay and he wasnt going to be given a free pass - I will stay in the guestroom till he comes to counselling for a pre-agreed 12 month. Him crying over counselling fees isnt going to get any reaction from me this times. If he hasnt yet 'forgiven' that I wanted to leave at one point 10 years ago, and didnt only cos of my son, then maybe it definitely is over - and we split assets and move on. Perfect timing with DS gettting to 18 just being two years away, pls God.

Thanks everyone , I will keep re-reading this thread as many times as I have to to not forget this time.

Future inheritance does not go into the marriage pot that is incorrect. It’s not your money.

Yes @AcrossthePond55 , I have clearly not been on top of this and should have demanded info and to be consulted more - but yes, the tax savings on the ISA would have allowed a nice holiday or two even every year I think and then we could have cashed it to prepay mortgage at a much later point only when the mortgage rates were much over any deposit interest income - especially factoring that money has gone for prepaying the mortgage twice as penalty for prepaying. But maybe the crux of all this is the hatred and anger against me channelled to avoid fun holidays and nursing old grudges. We need counselling to talk about everything that has happened for 20 years because I had my reasons too though I dont justify everything I did either

Inheritance remains the sole property of the heir unless they put it into the communal pot. I wouldn’t let that affect any decision you make @MMMMMBacon. It’s pretty obvious that your bloke won’t share his with you.

There was a woman in our community at the old neighbourhood around the time my son was 8 and her son was two years older - we were all in the same group of friends in the local neighbourhood community - there was a hobby my son was being taken to by my H , that he invited her to come along to (in front of me and her DH) since her son was good at it too - this blossomed into texting all the time about the hobby including answering all her long texts about the hobby practice even at 9.15 am on a monday morning logging into work during the prepandemic days - and helping her get a job - and coaching her kid alongside mine - and more like this.

I felt the utter laughing stock of the neighbourhood - she was clearly using him and he was smitten enough to indulge - for years, all along he was saying show me one message i sent her, one look, one word , one action that was sexual or inappropriate - I am the world's most decent guy.

Somehow that made it even worse, he would spend hours doing stuff for her , once he cooked and had me help - food for her for a week because she hurt her neck - though we both had stressful jobs and she was a stay at home mum (I ended up in hospital overnight with high Blood pressure from overdoing it that week) - I really felt like she was laughing at me behind our backs. Because it wasnt an affair she had nothing to lose, had her husband's full buy in all along for all the freebies and the ego boosts.
Am i never to be done 'making good' or being punished for wanting to leave 12 years ago ? I had some reasons for wanting to leave even then bcos of stuff that happened 2002-2012.

It's ok to end a marriage or relationship at any time even without a reason.

Good lord OP, he really is utter scum.
How on earth have your borne such abuse and humiliation.
So sad.

OP, I think you should find a therapist for yourself (not because I think you are mad or anything like that!), but your posts are so alive. It’s like you are thinking & seeing & feeling for the first time in a very long time.

I think therapy to talk out all these amazing thunderbolts would do you so much good and help you explore it all. You don’t need H there for that, in fact it won’t really be part of your couples therapy anyway.

i started therapy a few months ago and it’s empowering.

just a suggestion. And stay strong! Feel what you are feeling - I imagine you’ll be in a state of flux for a while, sometimes you’ll reel with emotion. Don’t sell yourself short.

I've read the whole thread somewhat open-mouthed. I agree with PPs that you really should leave this horrible man. He is abusive in every way imaginable. Staying in the house while separated sounds excruciating. Wouldn't a clean break be better?

And why on earth are you discussing counselling? Do you mean individual counselling for him or joint sessions? If the latter, I would forget about that due to his abuse and the emotional toll such sessions would inevitably take on you. If you just want him to pursue counselling, I wouldn't waste time and energy insisting on that. He won't change anyway, I can almost guarantee it. And it will be one more thing for him to hold over your head ("See, I went to counselling because you demanded it and I even paid for it -- what are you doing for me?" etc.).

I can't really comment on the financial side of things, though I think you may be focusing on that to avoid the more difficult emotional issues. But I will ask why you bought a huge house? Six bedrooms for three people? What was the reasoning behind that?

A six bed house in Edinburgh will have gained a lot of value in the last years, I’d bet more than they’d ever have got in a savings account or isa. It’s reasonable to prioritise paying off mortgage.

Thanks everyone, mulling on all your advice.

I think I need therapy to get my head straight and my thinking clearer too.

@OneBrightMorning , I tried saying many times, that a four bedroom is sufficient with the two extra ones being one guestroom and one office room.

Almost half the rooms in the house are empty now of people most times (tho there is hoarded stuff of 25 years everywhere, he wont throw anything away) - and I end up having to spend one whole day a weekend minimum sometimes two, just cleaning it - and struggling now with fibroids and perimeno

He points out to a 48 year cousin who works and cooks and cleans while her husband only works. both IT ppl. and says she does it and shes two years older than you.

The amount it’s increased in value is irrelevant. If your income in savings interest exceeds the interest you’re paying on your mortgage it’s sheer stupidity to overpay the mortgage out of your savings.

It is not in Edinburgh @Uol2022 - no amount of not eating out, no holidays, no good clothes could achieve this size of a house in edinburgh by us - or maybe that is next on his list for us to do who knows.

So that is why he has just kept his redundancy pay parked in his salary account for months and then sent it to my mum - because this way he has something to nag and control
Otherwise the usual plan is prepay the mortgage, but what's the perverse fun in that ? That only reduces the mortgage payments coming out of my salary every month. Less control over me then.

You’re right, I was misremembering when I’d done similar calculations - but that was whether to put more into a deposit to get a bigger house or save that money, so then the amount directly changed how much house I had in the first place. Overpaying mortgage isn’t the same, they already have the house and any benefit from price growth.

Please include never travelling to England to see family also in this , it has been 2.5 years except for week day work trips

Sorry, I’m not trying to tell you he’s right and you’re in the wrong. It’s obvious how much he’s hurt you in all sorts of ways. He shouldn’t be able to control whether you see family, and even if he doesn’t want to eat out you should be able to do so and generally have some more fun in your life. The way he’s been controlling the money and making sure you have nothing left over is really awful.