Marriage before kids - crossroads

[SapphireAmi]

Hi all,

My partner and I have hit a crossroads. I’d like to marry before kids whereas he wants kids before marriage. I am 36 and he is 41 so time is not really on our side.

Here is our situation:
He has assets and earns £120,000 a year. Naturally he is cautious about that. If it was me, I’d perhaps feel the same. He also doesn’t believe in the system of marriage. His parents had a messy divorce. It’s a compromise that he’ll marry me but wants us to be a unit first with children.

I am on £60,000 a year, and have a doctorate with potential future career prospects. I have no assets but I do have savings. I was brought up with married parents and went to church until I was 10 so have Christian values (not religious now). I want marriage for emotional security and sign of commitment before children.

He works away abroad occasionally (4 days every 1-2 months). I travel 45 mins to work. He works at home for the rest of the time. If we had children, I expect in someways he would be primary caregiver in that he would have to take the kids to school/pick up etc due to the nature of my hours. If children are poorly, he’ll likely be working at home so can have them there too. When he’s away, I’ll be primary caregiver. We both have parents that are retiring soon and they’ll more than willing to help and support.

If things went wrong between us, I’d always have a place at home with my parents (and my children if need be). I am considering also in investing in an asset such as a flat to help my own security. We have also discussed me buying into the house but I don’t really understand that enough what with him owning the land (2.5 acres). I would never be able to afford 50/50 as it’ll be a £1 million worth house, so I wonder if another asset would be better for me. The house will however be mortgage free. I will just share bill paying while having enough spare money to continue to save.

Once the main house is built, he plans on having a lower income and a simpler lifestyle. He doesn’t consume as much as I do - all of his money goes on the house, some travel and food. I will then be the main breadwinner but he’ll have provided for us with a nice mortgage free house.

Any thoughts? I’m trying to get out of my own headspace/traditional values and to see if from his perspective. I’d appreciate hearing any of your thoughts.

Personally I would never have children with someone I wasn’t married to.

Sorry @SapphireAmi I have landed on my decision now. Farmer or not, he is messing you around. I was prepared to understand if it meant risking the family farm, but not if it is just being used as an excuse. He just isn't that interested in you. This is usually a non-debate in a loving, equal relationship.

You need to decide if you are happy making that level of compromise which is all in his favour.

No wedding, no kids. Don’t put yourself into that vulnerable position. He’s either committed to you and having a family with you or he’s not. There’s no halfway house and he doesn’t get to hedge his bets.

As you suggest yourself he'd be mad to get married. He'd basically be giving away a six figure sum.

There is no way NM would advise a woman in his situation to get married.

You must be married before you buy a house together or have children. For your own financial security. It’s a no brainer!

I don’t think he’s a good man. He expects you to risk your life bringing his children into the world, without any protection of marriage. Both you and your children would be vulnerable. He’s not a good man.

New thought... what if you can't have children?
Is part of the plan to check you are actually fertile, before he commits himself to you, so he is not tied down to someone who can't deliver the main thing he actually wants?

You’ve had arguments about this… once you are looking after a baby between you you will have more arguments because it’s tiring and no one gets as much time to themselves or sleep as they want, and he will say this is why I don’t want to get married. And you will be screwed.

Haven't rtft

colour me surprised he wants the baby to have his name.

DO NOT blink first on this. It doesnt have to be fancy but it needs to be legally binding.

I cannot explain HOW much I underestimated having children as a woman changes your life.
I am the high earner in my marriage and I am SO glad I have the security of marriage. I did not think id say that 5 years ago.
Children change everything.
You need to be a team.
Right now you are 2 people in a business arrangement/ relationship not an actual familial relationship. Both of you deliver your side of the contract and stick your SLAs and everyone is happy.
All that goes out the window with kids, you are in the trenches and also life happens... somedays you're doing 90% some days 20%.

The power balance totally shift once kids are in the picture for women... and on 60k a year you are not going to have the level of autonomy you'd like / it wont be easy to tell him to f off if he wont change nappies wont do nights etc.

If he wont marry you you either stay childless or you separate and move on.

I personally think hes messing you about and wants the benefits of a family with none of the commitment responsibility and work.

giving baby my name would be non negotiable if not married. Zero negotiating, he’d need to understand that. Why does he think he can have everything he wants from you without commitment or any give? If you had a baby how would you fund mat leave? I’ll give you a hint- it should be a joint use if income so you both have some. Absolutely not by going through your savings to reduce the extra he has to commit.

Very torn as you talk about marriage but are talking about all the financials. While yes marriage is for protection, that and all your talks about the ins and outs of exactly what happens when you have kids weirdly sounds very like you both need to reconnect and do nothing for a while!

I also have concerns about this plan for you being the breadwinner and living on less- does he understand that children cost money? While unmarried his plan keeps you poor and he stays asset rich, I think I’d add there is no way I will ever step up to be the breadwinner and enable him to step down unmarried, except as a single mum where I’m not enabling him one bit.

Any bloke that says ‘I’ll marry you as a compromise’ is not the one.

He won’t marry you.

You will have children.

He will semi-retire.

You will live in his house, he will use your income to pay the bills. You will have nothing but a stack of paid grocery and utilities bills to show for it.

Should anything happen to you, he’ll keep the assets, you’ll be left with nothing and will have saved nothing because your income will have been spent on raising a family.

It’s clear as day for me. You would be a fool to have children with this particular man before marriage. He’s telling you he doesn’t want to get married and doesn’t believe in it. He’s lining you up to do the necessary for him to have a comfortable and secure life that you will bankroll, in return for a roof over your head for the duration of your relationship with him.

Can men get pregnant now then? No? Then there is no reverse of this situation.

Check she’s fertile, then he hasn’t got the bother of divorce if he has to find someone else.

He wants the commitment of kids but fears the financial burden of marriage/divorce? The red flag is wanting to take the pedal off once the house is built. He is not thinking like a family man.

@SapphireAmi if you have kids with this man, rest assured, he will never go on to marry you! If he is a farmer, every penny is a prisoner and they are all his prisoners, not to be shared with anyone, even you!! stick to your guns. marriage at least gives you some security!

He’s not ready to marry you but he’s ready to have kids with you? An actually lifelong commitment incapable of dissolution?

Sounds like what he’s actually not ready for is to share his assets with you….

I get that you’re financially stable on your own, but that may well change after multiple maternity leaves and the school holidays, huge cost of nursery etc etc. Protect yourself and insist on marriage.

I had two kids without marrying and my partner had an affair during my second pregnancy and walked out when DC2 was a few days old. Nothing I could do about it and no protection in place - luckily I have a supportive family!

To be blunt 50% of marriage
there a imbalance that can never be levelled unless he’s prepared to give away 1/2 of everything he’s got as Op has nothing

you’ve got a good salary and prospects don’t under any circumstances forgo them build your own assets

Sounds about right. Wouldn't have crossed his tiny mind that he could be the one with fertility issues.

Double post

Exactly. It’s a false equivalence

I would be very cautious about having children with this man. It doesn’t sound very stable from what you’ve written. I understand he wants to protect his assets but there’s every chance you’ll have children and he will come up with some other excuse as to not get married. He wants to have his cake and eat it too.

Marriage is old fashioned now...more important if you are religious.my kids saw how difficult it was to leave and divorce my husband...it put them right off the idea...its cost lots to marry and even more to end it.....so both are in happy long time relationships..share EVERYTHING including children....they have made legal decisions which are easy to do... pensions next of kin etc....unfortunately if partners has different ideas about Marriage etc ...its doomed