Marriage before kids - crossroads

[SapphireAmi]

Hi all,

My partner and I have hit a crossroads. I’d like to marry before kids whereas he wants kids before marriage. I am 36 and he is 41 so time is not really on our side.

Here is our situation:
He has assets and earns £120,000 a year. Naturally he is cautious about that. If it was me, I’d perhaps feel the same. He also doesn’t believe in the system of marriage. His parents had a messy divorce. It’s a compromise that he’ll marry me but wants us to be a unit first with children.

I am on £60,000 a year, and have a doctorate with potential future career prospects. I have no assets but I do have savings. I was brought up with married parents and went to church until I was 10 so have Christian values (not religious now). I want marriage for emotional security and sign of commitment before children.

He works away abroad occasionally (4 days every 1-2 months). I travel 45 mins to work. He works at home for the rest of the time. If we had children, I expect in someways he would be primary caregiver in that he would have to take the kids to school/pick up etc due to the nature of my hours. If children are poorly, he’ll likely be working at home so can have them there too. When he’s away, I’ll be primary caregiver. We both have parents that are retiring soon and they’ll more than willing to help and support.

If things went wrong between us, I’d always have a place at home with my parents (and my children if need be). I am considering also in investing in an asset such as a flat to help my own security. We have also discussed me buying into the house but I don’t really understand that enough what with him owning the land (2.5 acres). I would never be able to afford 50/50 as it’ll be a £1 million worth house, so I wonder if another asset would be better for me. The house will however be mortgage free. I will just share bill paying while having enough spare money to continue to save.

Once the main house is built, he plans on having a lower income and a simpler lifestyle. He doesn’t consume as much as I do - all of his money goes on the house, some travel and food. I will then be the main breadwinner but he’ll have provided for us with a nice mortgage free house.

Any thoughts? I’m trying to get out of my own headspace/traditional values and to see if from his perspective. I’d appreciate hearing any of your thoughts.

Suggest he talks to a solicitor?

I would potentially have kids without marriage as long as I was on the deeds of the house, and he made any shortfall in my pension due to maternity leave / time off etc, and agreed to proper 50/50 parenting while I went back to work f/t.

Also all costs paid pro rata to our income.

i.e do all you can to be not made more vulnerable in financial or housing security terms by child bearing.

He is being businesslike in his approach (due to the farm), you need to do the same.

@Naunet True, but that's why you need to choose the right man, who will be a responsible father and partner regardless of a marriage certificate. Otherwise do you think married men don't cheat or run away from responsibilities ? Or stay married in a miserable marriage for both just for the sake of financial security? Screw that. That's why women should learn to stand on their own two feet too professionally and financially, and choose the man they are with wisely.

Im guessing he wants a child so they can inherit the farm (preferably a son)

If I had a baby with this man I'd do it on the assumption he'll never marry me. Personally that wouldn't be for me.

I can see why people with significant assets would want to protect them, but I would be insulted that he didn't trust me. And having been with someone who promised me marriage for years and kept putting it off, it affected my confidence and self esteem too much to do it again. I was always trying to be good enough to earn a proposal. Pathetic in hindsight. And I felt very insecure.

Your OP reads like he will only marry you if you show yourself to be good breeding stock. Then, and only as the mother if his children, will he deign to commit to you.

What happens if you are not? If you are not able to reproduce? He looks for the next breeding machine?

I do not understand how a less importance is placed to a commitment to children than to assets. This is back to front in my opinion. If he is not prepared to become a team with you now, then there is no reason to think he would be a good team member when children are present. You have made a lot of assumptions as to who will pick up the initial work of childbearing but make no mistake, the impact is nearly always heavier on women.

You are right to wish to have marriage first. Don't cave. And it does not say good things about him that he will not compromise.

There’s a 0% chance I’d marry this man based on what you’ve said, he seems stingy, selfish and manipulative.

He should want you to be financially and emotionally secure and to create a family unit with you before expecting you to have a baby for him.

I wouldn't disagree - so the woman too in a situation like this has to make a rational (ie non-emotional) decision.
Is she willing to take the risk?, Does she believe her man will stand by her and be faithful irrespective of marriage?, Is the relationship strong enough?, Is the non-marriage aspect a deal breaker?
If the answer to all or any of those are no, or not sure, it's either walk away or give the whole scenario a serious re-think.

As PPs have said, I wouldn't do it. It is easy for posters to state that it is okay long as things are 50/50 but really if you split up, our society expects you to do the lions share and it is socially accepted for a man to do very little.

This is so true.

I had IL arguing boy next door to them was a good dad because instead of paying the amount child maintance said he had to be paid a bit more- £5 a week - as I said £20-25 a month buys next to nothing - even a pair of shoes can cost that.

Dsis has had to recently turn down better job - she can't guarantee getting back to pick up from school/after school from locations- with her first our parents helped but to old now.

The impacts can be wide spread to motherhood - thing is though it may be worth it to some - 36 - not a huge amount of time left to find someone willing to have kids with though there is some.

I don't know what your joint or individual assets are - but you'll be aware that if you're not married, when one dies the other might have to pay inheritance tax?

If he is from a farm background did his parents messy divorce end up impacting the farm? If so, I started by thinking this guy is dreadful to moving towards understanding more about why he might be wanting to protect assets.

There is something deeply ingrained in working on your own land. We have something similar in my family.

I don't think there is a right or wrong answer here. It is up to you to determine what is right for you in this situation and whether either of you can compromise. I would look into legal options pre marriage / pre children though before committing anything, though.

I wouldn't have children with him unless he marries you
You will.be the one taking maternity leave and it will be your career that is impacted.

Very good point. OP if the money isn’t going to you, who is it going to? Your partner knows about finances because he’s interested in protecting his assets so you need to get some financial advice so you know exactly where you stand in different scenarios. Not romantic but practical seeing as your partner seems to be clued up.

If we had children, I expect in someways he would be primary caregiver in that he would have to take the kids to school/pick up etc due to the nature of my hours. If children are poorly, he’ll likely be working at home so can have them there too. When he’s away, I’ll be primary caregiver. We both have parents that are retiring soon and they’ll more than willing to help and support.

Have you actually had this conversation with him? And with both sets of parents?

This, in a nutshell OP. This man will never marry you if you have children first. As a PP pointed out, by saying he wants to have children first, he is pretending to commit to you. Don’t trap yourself with this man.

Depends how important marriage is to you, if you have a child first I would almost guarantee the marriage won't happen. It's something I felt strongly about so I would stick to your guns, I always said I wouldn't have children with someone who wasn't prepared to commit to me enough to marry me first.

As someone who has more assets than their partner I completely understand why your partner doesn’t want to marry. I have no intention of marrying my partner either.

He doesn’t want to marry in the first place so he is not going to get married after you have a kid or two.

I think in your situation, and if you really love him, I would still go ahead and create a family with him. You know the pitfalls and there are ways of making things a bit more secure for you should you break up or if he was to die before you. You will need wills, he will need to compensate you financially for maternity leave or if part-time working is needed (including pension contributions), he will need to pay a much larger share of the bills as he earns twice as much as you, you will need to be owing a fair share of the home you will share.

It's possible to do this without you feeling like you ar stuck with him because of finances, it just takes a bit more work than just getting married.

Yes, good point. Tbh I have considerably more assets.. so not typical. If it was the other way round I think I woukd take a different view tbh

I think if marriage is important to you and he doesn't want to get married, that's a basic incompatibility. He might marry you down the line after children or he may not. I don't think I'd want to marry someone who was basically doing it as a compromise when they don't really want to.

So he can bow out easily if he doesn’t fancy it, clearly.

Which is fine, but hopefully you are/would be honest about that to any partner rather than tell them you'll do it after children as a compromise.

Look - it depends on what you want in life.
If you want kids - I think you have two options:

… Freeze your eggs now. Leave our ‘partner’ - because in reality he does not want to have a life where he is in a committed partnership
where he is responsible for a family. See if you can’t meet someone more aligned with you in life outlook.

Your ‘partner’’s plan for life is about him - build a house and live a simple life and stop working in his 40s so that his woman supports him and his child.… Seriously 🤷🏻‍♀️
What if you can’t work for a while after giving birth; what if your kids have care needs; what if… any scenario can happen once kids come around or if life happens in an unpredictable way. This is why marriage exists - to protect the woman and child’s financial security because childbirth can change our lives and certainly changes our earnings trajectory.

….Alternatively - I’d get pregnant now, but moved back in with parents, and built up an independent life. He can pay child support
and ponder marriage on his own terms.

As it is - he wants you to act as a wife; get all the benefits of having wife work done for him; while taking no responsibility.

What is clear is that he will NOT marry you if you just go along with his ‘plan’

Yes, also my partner is terrible with money and trades crypto... which is a huge factor in me not wanting to mix our finances.

OP, it’s ultimatum time - either you get married, or you go your separate ways, because otherwise you’ll be living in this limbo until the moment for having children has come, been and gone. If your DH is worried you’ll get married and make off with his assets, would you consider a prenup? What I wouldn’t be open to is having children without the security of being married - someone I know (with children) is going through a separation where she is coming out of it very badly for not having been married.