Marriage before kids - crossroads

[SapphireAmi]

Hi all,

My partner and I have hit a crossroads. I’d like to marry before kids whereas he wants kids before marriage. I am 36 and he is 41 so time is not really on our side.

Here is our situation:
He has assets and earns £120,000 a year. Naturally he is cautious about that. If it was me, I’d perhaps feel the same. He also doesn’t believe in the system of marriage. His parents had a messy divorce. It’s a compromise that he’ll marry me but wants us to be a unit first with children.

I am on £60,000 a year, and have a doctorate with potential future career prospects. I have no assets but I do have savings. I was brought up with married parents and went to church until I was 10 so have Christian values (not religious now). I want marriage for emotional security and sign of commitment before children.

He works away abroad occasionally (4 days every 1-2 months). I travel 45 mins to work. He works at home for the rest of the time. If we had children, I expect in someways he would be primary caregiver in that he would have to take the kids to school/pick up etc due to the nature of my hours. If children are poorly, he’ll likely be working at home so can have them there too. When he’s away, I’ll be primary caregiver. We both have parents that are retiring soon and they’ll more than willing to help and support.

If things went wrong between us, I’d always have a place at home with my parents (and my children if need be). I am considering also in investing in an asset such as a flat to help my own security. We have also discussed me buying into the house but I don’t really understand that enough what with him owning the land (2.5 acres). I would never be able to afford 50/50 as it’ll be a £1 million worth house, so I wonder if another asset would be better for me. The house will however be mortgage free. I will just share bill paying while having enough spare money to continue to save.

Once the main house is built, he plans on having a lower income and a simpler lifestyle. He doesn’t consume as much as I do - all of his money goes on the house, some travel and food. I will then be the main breadwinner but he’ll have provided for us with a nice mortgage free house.

Any thoughts? I’m trying to get out of my own headspace/traditional values and to see if from his perspective. I’d appreciate hearing any of your thoughts.

Marriage is always a bad financial risk for any person who has far greater assets it can be a man or woman who has far more assets. Historically it was women but it’s changing, my friend would lose far more in a divorce as her DH is low paid, they didn’t manage to have children either.

He doesn't want her to get half the house when he runs off with a 25 year old.
Don't do it OP. He wants you to be left as a single poor parent. If he wants to be a true partner and parent he'll marry you before kids. If you are joint parents to children everything should be joint. No his and hers - does he also think he shouldn't pay for the kids? Pay for housing during your maternity leave? Sod that for a game of soldiers.

If he doesn’t want to get married yet then you can’t change that really. However I wouldn’t have kids with someone who ‘wasn’t ready’ to marry me, he’s either all in or he’s not. Just not believing in marriage is a different thing, he’s willing but not ready to marry you due to arguments, that’s a relationship flaw.

That being said id still try and reach a compromise if you want kids because you could already be running out of time if you’ve not had any tests done. Marriage can be done at any age but kids has a tight timescale, especially if you want more than one. Can you compromise on the marriage thing?

I think kids is the biggest commitment and if someone doesn’t want to commit to marriage, I wouldn’t trust their commitment to me enough to have a child with them.

I would just try for kids anyway.

Sounds like he doesn’t want to get married, but is that the end of the world? Isn’t it something like 50% of marriages now end in divorce?

I have 2 kids, and my partner wants to get married more than I do. I’ve just never had any interest in it.

I don’t mean this in a rude way, but how much longer can you wait before trying for a baby. I know people are having children in their 40’s now, but it is such hard work and I would do this sooner rather than later.

My SIL waited years to marry her partner. He kept putting it off etc. they finally married around 35 and have tried for a baby for 10 years. She’s now 45 and massively regrets waiting to get married first. She always thinks what if they’d just got on with it and tried for a baby when she was early 30’s etc, rather than waiting for everything to be perfect. It may not have made a difference, but it also might have done. I would just try for a baby personally.

This doesn’t sound like the sort of ‘commitment’ I’d be content with.

I think you really need to give some hard thought as to whether he is the man for you, OP.

In the interim, definitely stick to your guns - I wouldn’t have children with him outside of marriage.

Not ready to marry yet ready to have kids... does you see how illogical that is?

Hes protecting his assets and wealth from you and that should tell you everything you need to know about how he views you.

I don’t mean this in a rude way, but how much longer can you wait before trying for a baby. I know people are having children in their 40’s now, but it is such hard work and I would do this sooner rather than later.

We married at roughly the ages you are. I had about 5 miscarriages and we are now adoptive parents. For us, it's not the hard work of having the actual children but the toll those losses took. We are thankfully a strong partnership but if we hadn't been that could have broken us.
How does he feel about other routes to parenthood?

His position is lacking logic. If he didn't want marriage at all then I understand

You can’t un-parent yourself from children and you both will always have the children and in some way shape or form each other in your lives. For a childless couple divorce is simple. That his parents had a messy divorce was because they had kids not because they got divorced.

Aside from his parents’ divorce does he say actually why? If it’s assets and finances related then you need to put to him the risk you will be taking as an unmarried mother,
perhaps a civil court relationship? Perhaps a prenup?

Essentially he doesn't want to marry you. His 'compromise' is just a stalling method, to make you think marriage will happen, but the reality is, it won't. There's no reason for him to marry you once children come along. He doesn't want to marry you because he knows if you split, you will walk away financially better off, than you are now. He will lose out financially on a huge scale if you split. If you don't marry, he's only responsible to financially support the children, and would have no obligations towards you. I do understand his view point, but equally he's not seeing you as his life partner. If you go along with his plan, then you need to provide your own security, so yes buy a property in your own name, if you're able and stay working full-time.

OP you know really. He wants offspring to pass his wealth onto, does he really want you? I’m sorry. The thing is if you want children with this man go into this with your eyes wide open. The worse case scenario is he’s unlikely to marry you, you will have nothing if the relationship doesn’t work out and he can claim in court that any children would be better off with him financially. Please think carefully - are there red flags but you are ignoring them? You both need to have a proper conversation about this.

He will never marry you.
If it’s finances that concern him, he can get a pre-nup.
My red line is no marriage, no children. If you’re not good enough for a man to make you his wife, you’re not good enough to carry his children. It’s as much about protecting you and your unborn children if he’s to sadly die, as it is anything else. And the fact he’s (frankly not even wealthy) and is concerned you just want his money (the logical conclusion here), and that’s a priority for him over protecting you in case he passes? That should tell you everything about his priorities.

This. He's not going to marry you, OP.

How many of your fertile years have you wasted on this man who isn't committed to you? Don't add another day to that tally......

OP, what jumps out at me here is when you said, ‘He originally said he’d be open to marrying before kids but because we have had arguments about this, he said he doesn’t feel ready to marry.’ My ex did this for years. He WOULD have proposed by now if only I was better and didn’t cause arguments about it… such a clever way of blaming you and kicking the problem down the line.

In his suggestion, you have kids, you become the breadwinner and provide him with cash, whilst he gives you a roof over your head for as long as he wants to. He can kick you out at any time. Which may seem fine when you can go to your parents or buy an investment flat you could move into etc etc but it’s never that simple when kids are in the mix.

I suspect you know deep down he has no intention of ever marrying you but are finding it difficult to face what that means in terms of decision making. You cave in and accept no marriage, and probably resentment and disappointment in him forever more, plus whatever financial consequences that brings for you further down the line, or you walk away, the thought of which must be unbearably painful, especially when you want children. I know, with hindsight, what I should have done but it’s not easy.

Marriage and children is about building a family unit. You can't any longer think in terms of protecting your assets and keeping finances separate or at least you shouldn't. He needs to shift his thinking if you want to create a family. Marriage is a very important protection for a mother's inevitable reduction in income because of maternity but it is also a symbolic gesture that you both wish to become a family. The statement of 'I don't believe in marriage' from him either means he is stringing you along because he likes things the way they are or that he is not ready to commit to being an all-in family unit. I personally wouldn't have children with someone who wants to keep one foot out of the door.
Stick to your guns. If he doesn't think marriage is that important then it shouldn't be a big deal to marry you should it?

Tell him if he wants a family the money, the assets, the life and the children have to be shared.

41 years old and not 'ready' 😄 this man wants to keep his assets (which is fine) but wants a broodmare to impregnate.

Why does he think anyone would want that?

I see it all the time on here; women who chose to have a kid with a boyfriend and ruins her career, pension, can't house herself yet also has zero savings, and the boyfriend 'doesn't believe in' marriage contracts. Don't join them.

Find a man who wants the same things in life. Or, choose sperm donation and be financially independent.

Absolutely not. He's expecting you to take all the risk, that's not a partnership. Hes meant to want the best for you and his hypothetical child, not just himself. I'd bet my ass he'd still expect the baby to have his last name too, so I'd be making it clear that it won't.

I would have one child before marriage.
I would also insist that I pay less in expenses because it is essential that I build up enough savings to buy a two bedroomed house.
He should understand that you need security, with a child to support, if you split up.

Otherwise, sign a watertight pre-nup that doesn't risk his generational asset (usually which he has not purchased) of a farm ever being sold off should you divorce.
If you marry consider having two children but also still saving up to purchase your own home..

I think this is it. He’s unlikely to marry you but he definitely wants to continue his lineage and sees you as a good person to help him to do that.

It would worry me not so much because I’d potentially be left as a single parent - as that can always happen - but because I’d see him as deceptive and cruel to be string me along like this. This isn’t a man I’d like to have a child with.

He thinks he’s several steps ahead of you and reckons he is smarter than you. It would be better if he’d be honest.

There’s really no good reason for him to say he will have kids first before marriage. Look you can always get out of a failing marriages but you can’t (or at least shouldn’t!) get rid of your child once they are there. Think carefully if this man is for you.

He has no intention of marrying you, and this level of manipulation would be a deal breaker for me.

If you do intend to stay with him, is he one of those men who cares about surnames? If so reminding him that this will be 100% your decision if unmarried and that some things are husband privileges might concentrate his mind. It works with some of them.

I would insist on marriage but be open to SOME of his assets being protected from the marital pot.

He could choose to earn £20k so you bet little maintenance or worse he becomes primary parent and you see 50% of the DC max and may have to pay maintenance to him.

Perfectly fine to not marry.
But how are you (both) going to make sure what one of you isn't financially impacted by kids more than the other - both together and in the event of any split.

Can that be worked out? Will your career take a hit with mat leave etc? If you split would you be technically homeless and receiving bare minimum child maintenance and struggling to work because of childcare responsibilities, while he keeps the big house and is free to earn what he wants?

You need to think very carefully about what you want, OP, given that marriage is effectively off the table. At 36, if you want to try for your own biological children you need to get on with it. Your options are to accept that he won't marry you and have children with him anyway, split up and explore the option of single motherhood through donor conception, or accept that you won't have your own biological children and that you will either be child-free or will pursue adoption.

He's being selfish and he won't consider your wants and needs when it comes to the big, important life decisions. So you need to take him out of the picture and decide on the things that you can control.

If you do decide to stay with him and try for a child without being married, you need to have some very honest conversations first. Does he have a will and what does it say? If he had children, would he change his will and if so how? Does he have life insurance? You need to know what will happen if he dies, will you and the children be able to stay in the family home. If he wants to leave all his money to them and not to you, you know how he feels about you. Also, if he does want to leave money to you, there will be inheritance tax to pay if unmarried, whereas there is no IHT if inheriting from a spouse.

If you're not married and not named on the house deeds, you'll have no legal right to stay in the event of a split, so it would definitely be wise to buy yourself a property in your name only (if funds allow) so that you could live there and wouldn't find yourself homeless.

If he won't share his assets with you, you shouldn't share your income or savings with him, and shouldn't support him financially. Make everything 50/50.

Once you have children he will see no need for him to marry.

This - so I guess it's whether your up for single parenthood and possible little help from him. If you are then you could take a punt get pg - make sure you keep working and your financial future always in your mind - and hope it works out.

If you marry you could still end up a single parent down the line - but I would say this does suggest he won't look out for you.

I do know a few couple like this that did later marry - but it's rare and in at least one seemed to be worry about man getting older - and in all the marriage didn't last into old age - and there weren't the one side of assets there are here at risk.

I wanted marraige before kids - so he was happy to marry but I was a decade younger and nether of us had assets. So personally I'd be very unhappy in your situation - and would have to do some deep thinking about what I want and what I'm willing to risk.