Explosive rows with DH

[Fedupwitharguments]

Another week, another explosive row with my DH about something minor.

It was our anniversary today, and the only words we exchanged (aside from practical stuff about our kids) were him yelling at me for what he considers unreasonable behaviour (basically, me being upset at him for something I considered selfish but which he thought was fair. It was a small issue, but, as with many previous arguments, it has escalated into something horrible).

We are constantly failing to agree or emphathise with the other.

My DH does a lot - he's a great, hands-on dad, a thoughtful husband (most of the time) and works tirelessly (as well as helping around the house when he can/when I ask him to). But I do a lot, too (and I'm currently pregnant with our third child - we've always wanted three, and our other two are young - so things aren't smooth at the moment. It doesn't help that I'm a bit obsessive about keeping the house clean, keeping on top of the washing etc).

His job involves ridiculously early starts and a lot of pressure. I feel like his emotional punching bag - he constantly takes his stress and exhaustion out on me. We went on holiday recently and had a great week together. No arguments. But in everyday life, I'm walking on eggshells, thinking twice before saying anything that could annoy him. I also increasingly feel like our views on things differ. Although we live the same life in a lot of ways, our experiences (his, a stressful full-time job involving travel) and mine (home life with two young kids and a stressful part-time job) are different and we aren't seeing eye to eye anymore. It's a fairly new thing. I love my husband, my kids and my life. But these arguments are becoming so explosive, I'm worried they'll lead to divorce.

In the rows, we're both pretty stubborn. But while I have recently tried to 'draw a line' and move on from them, he insists I say 'sorry' first - which I won't do if I genuinely believe I'm not in the wrong. As the row/silence between us continues, he gets himself riled up and eventually ends up being quite verbally abusive. Today, he told me in a rage he needs a new wife not a new job - something he has yet to apologise for/take back - and that he resents me for how I am in arguments.

His anger issues - or so I consider them - have been a long-standing issue in our decade-plus relationship, and we have nearly broken up over them. He has said some pretty shocking things to me in the past - for example, calling me a stupid cow and silly b* - and he once called our toddler a stupid little t*t in a rage (just typing that conjures up an image of a man who doesn't look like my DH. He adores the kids, and is just not like that normally. But he is just horrible when angry). His dad apparently has a temper, too, and I'm worried about my kids witnessing/experiencing/inheriting (?) it. No-one has ever spoken to me like that before. I sometimes question why I've put up with it for this long.

We have had a huge argument every few weeks since the start of the year (I have started jotting them down as I've realised they're increasing). I don't know what to do. I desperately want our family unit to stay together and be happy - something we are most of the time. But these rows are awful. My hormones/exhaustion probably aren't helping, but he has zero understanding/empathy and rarely asks about how I'm feeling.

He is more concerned with the minor issues causing the rows, and my lack of apology for bringing them up/not appreciating him, but I'm worried about the escalation of them - the days we spend in silence, furious at each other.

Any advice/outsiders' perspectives appreciated. I'm tired so have possibly worded things badly. I won't be offended by any comments! x

Have you tried talking to him about it when things are calm? If not, then that’s the first step. If that doesn’t work then to go to couple’s therapy. He needs to manage his anger better but it sounds like you could be contributing too as you refer to your anger and your stubbornness and nit picking over small things, and silent treatment? Reading between the lines, this might not be blowing up in a rage, but are equally unhelpful behaviours in resolving conflict and can be passive aggressive (and having been on the receiving end of that I’d rather someone blew up tbh!). And to “draw a line” under continued “explosive” rows just sounds like an attempt to paper over the cracks to me. You need to resolve the issues by finding out what’s really going on under the rows about petty things, really listening to each other and stop worrying so much about who’s right and wrong over a petty issue and start coming to those conversations as if you love the person you are talking to and want to resolve things. Obviously that needs to go both ways.

The reason I suggest therapy is because it sounds like you have got into a negative cycle/pattern and that you are both now constantly “triggering” each other leading to the very unhelpful responses and explosive arguments over minor issues. This can be really hard to break out of, and is often due to patterns learnt from childhood and a therapist can help you work through that and find a new pattern

I’ve been listening to this podcast recently. It’s really good - talks through therapy with an anxious/avoidant attacher couple - this may resonate (not saying this exact dynamic applies to you but you will likely resonant with the negative cycle explanations and how they work through it. I wasn’t sure what she was trying to do in the first episode or two, but found it really clicks after that and makes a lot of sense.

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-secure-love-podcast-with-julie-menanno/id1753342452

If he doesn’t see the problem there is nothing you can do. And it sounds like he sees his anger as a feature, not a bug.

Couples counselor putting in my 2 cents.

I strongly agree with @MyLov regarding therapy. You're stuck in a very destructive dynamic that's gotten too big for you to break out of. Pride and both of your wounded ego's are holding you back from seeing each other and communicating constructively anymore and you're going to need a third party to call you both out on your behaviour and poor communication styles.

What I sometimes do when I work with couples is I put 3 cups on a table. One in front of each partner and one in the middle. There are 3 cups to fill with every action you choose.
You can fill your own cup by standing up for yourself, setting boundaries, confronting your partner when they don't meet your needs etc.
You can fill your partners cup by choosing to set your needs aside for them, by putting things into perspective, by letting it slide when your partner acts in a way they shouldn't, by reacting kindly when they lash out because you see the vulnerability underneath.
But there's also the cup of the relationship. And the relationship cup gets filled when we're constructively working on the connection between us. When we stop arguing about who's right and wrong, but when we focus on seeing the bigger picture. When nobody's needs have to be shoved aside, because we realise that the relationship is only as strong as the least happy person in it.

Usually what happens is that couples feel that their own cups aren't full enough, so they will stop filling each others' cups and only fill their own. And if there were only two cups (yours and theirs) this wouldn't be an issue. The problem is, the third cup gets ignored and that's why you're feeling the cracks in your relationship. Nobody's feeding your relationship. And what you don't feed, starves and dies eventually.

Filling the third cup takes a very important skill. It takes the emotional self-regulation capacity to be able to calmly observe what's happening between you, to feel the emotional triggers without instantly responding to them. And instead extending an invitation to your partner to be your actual partner in resolving the situation. It means being able to listen with curiosity, rather than being ready to reply to defend yourself. It means taking accountability for the impact you have on someone, even if your intentions were good, and appologising. Not for your intentions, but for the hurt you've unintentionally caused. Because if I trip and fall and break something, whether I meant to fall doesn't change the fact that it's broken. And when you break something, you have the responsibility to mend it.

Good luck

Could you leave/end it if you wanted to? (Practically and in an economic sense). Plan for a future when you can end the marriage if you want to, and have that quietly in your mind behind the scenes, as it sounds as if you want to try other things next (which is understandable).

Also, you can use ChatGPT to keep a journal (the paid version saves in its memory). That was invaluable for me when I decided to end my marriage (I’d probably have left years before if I’d done this!) as it meant I could see much more clearly what was going on, and ChatGPT pointed out patterns and cycles where I didn’t even see them, and I suddenly gained so much clarity about what was him and what was me. I also wrote down the impact of his anger, after every incident, and what led up to it. You have already become aware of a cycle and that is why you are keeping note of it. You are also pregnant with your third child and that puts you in a state of being more dependent than ever, which means that he will feel much safer using you as an emotional punchbag as the chance of leaving seems to be hugely reduced.

I am not saying you have to make any decisions right now, but just keep quietly gaining clarity in the background and making a plan that is there if you need to call it a day once and for all.

What is your approach to abusive relationships? Where there is an imbalance of power and one has anger problems and shows lack of empathy generally, as well as being verbally abusive to their partner and sulking for days when they don’t feel sufficiently “respected ”? (And that is what is going on with demanding apologies!)

I am alarmed that you can look at the above and then start talking about looking at both sides, and you say you are a couples therapist?

He's a bully. Walking on eggshells, name calling and the silent treatment are indicative of emotional abuse. Your best way forward is to discuss the relationship with a domestic abuse organisation.

Just read some of the posts above about therapy, please don't do therapy with him.

He has anger issues, so unless he's prepared to own that and takes steps to work on it, there's not be to do.

I'm sure we've all been guilty of saying things we shouldn't when arguing and things escalate.

But resorting think personal insults, and insisting on controlling the dynamic by making sure you're the one to say sorry first, is controlling and abusive.

He doesn't get to make your his punchbag for a high stress job either.

He sounds awful. The thing he said to your child was disgusting. He feels fully entitled to take out his anger on you and the children.

Start investigating divorce.

What did you learn about relationships when you were growing up?. Did your dad treat your mum like this?.

He is not a great hands on dad is he?. Women in poor relationships write such denial to themselves when they can think of nothing else positive to write about their man.

He is also a carbon copy of his father and he is also an abusive man. Such men too hate women, ALL of them.

Do you think he gets this angry to his work colleagues; no he does not. He has a problem with anger, YOUR anger, when you rightly call him out on his behaviours. He does not have anger management issues and such courses are also no answer to domestic abuse which is what is being described here. I would think your children tip toe around him in some vain attempts to not set him off. Such men always remain volatile.

Consider now contacting Womens Aid and telling your midwife about this man.
Abuse thrives on secrecy and you have taken a small but important step in writing about this on here.

I would also start seeking legal advice with a view to divorcing him. You are now going to bring another child into this abusive relationship and these children frankly deserve a better childhood. One free from them seeing you (and in turn them) as their mother being abused by their so called dad. Trying to protect them as well as your own self from this whilst you are all under the same roof is impossible. Couples counselling is never recommended when there is abuse of any type within the relationship.

DH was setting up a business when we had 3 DC under 5 and we'd had a stillbirth in between. I was fragile, exhausted physically and mentally and he expected meals on tap, clean washing, a tidy house and regular sex. And was utterly vile when he got none of them. Looking back, I have no idea why I stayed and tolerated it because all I ever did was excuse his behaviour when I should have been calling him out on it. I did finally leave when our DC were late primary age, because by then I'd found my backbone and confidence, and we had nearly a year apart. He was utterly devastated, didn't like the new me at all, but we did put our family back together again - only on terms that I could live with too. And every time he started to sulk, bitch under his breath or cause an argument - he was reminded that we don't do toxic to one another. In fact, 20 years on, he still gets that reminder occasionally. I guess what I'm trying to say is that you don't have to be in this relationship. You have choices. And if it's geting this toxic, it's not a great environment for kids to be raised in.

It might not be realistic for you to separate from him now given you are pregnant but I like the idea above of planning so that this could be a realistic for you if you wanted in the future.

My advice would be to tell family/a trusted friend when these arguments happen - sometimes voicing it and not keeping his behaviour a secret can make it more real for you and hopefully might shame him into thinking about his actions.

Abuse is not about communication or a perceived lack of, it's about power and control. Unfortunately some couples counsellors do not recognise the dynamics of abuse and therefore their words do more harm than good. This is also why couples counselling is never advisable to undertake when there is abuse of any type within the relationship. If counselling is to be at all considered here, go on your own. And TBH I would use my energies instead into planning a safe and controlled exit from this marriage.

What do you want to teach your children about relationships and what are they learning here?. They are learning a shedload of damaging lessons from both of you and those could well manifest themselves further in their own adult relationships as either the abused or even as an abuser.

You have a choice re this man OP. Your children do not. Make better choices with them front and centre in your mind, not him.

"I desperately want our family unit to stay together and be happy - something we are most of the time".

But are you happy?. He only seems happy when you are all dancing to his tune. You have no power or say in your marriage.

You today remain with a volatile man so you are stressed out or otherwise hypervigilent to him and so you are not happy most of the time. You are walking on eggshells and to my mind that is code for living in fear. He is taking up a vast amount of your headspace.

If he is doing this to you, you also need to consider the effects all this is having on your children. They are picking up on all the vibes here, both spoken and unspoken. It's not your fault nor theirs that their dad has decided to embark on his own private based war against you.

He has himself broken up this family unit by his actions and if he really did love his children he would never have abused you as their mum. He will remain just as abusive towards you and in turn them once you divorce him but you will be free from him day to day.

Better to be from a so called broken home than to remain in one. Do not remain in this for what are really your own reasons.

100% this.

Who the fuck does he think he is!!

Thank you everyone for your comments and for your time leaving them. I have a busy day with the kids, and am already running late, so I will read them all properly and reply later.

I do worry about the impact of his anger on the kids even if we did separate (which I don’t want considering I love him, I love our family and I am expecting our third child). He would still, of course, be in their life. Which is why I wonder if he needs to tackle that first.

Do you love him or are you really confusing that with codependency?. His own actions towards you and his family are certainly not loving ones are they?. And when he is "nice" towards you all this is the nice part of the nice and nasty cycle of abuse which is a continuous one.

Bringing up the children up in such an atmosphere will harm them all. Do not sacrifice yourself or them on his alter. Again you have a choice re him, they do not. Love is not enough here, nowhere near enough.

He's a carbon copy of his own father, himself an abuser too. BTW are his parents still together?.

And I also doubt very much he would want to be bothered with his children very much going forward because of his so called high powered job. He may well have muttered 50/50 to you but he could well be using that to avoid paying maintenance. If he is that bothered about seeing them then access to them should be formalised using a contact centre, somewhere where he would need to behave properly. Forewarned is forearmed OP. He is not ever going to be amicable re divorce; these types want to "punish" and "win" at all costs. This is who he really is and such types do not change.

He was verbally abusive to your toddler and you still went ahead and got pregnant again? Ffs even if you think it’s ok for him to treat you like this (it isn’t) you should have higher standards for your children.

Actually the litteral definition of a couples counselor is someone who will always open up both perspectives. That's not the same as excusing behaviour or encouraging people to put up with unacceptable behaviour. It's about putting accountability where it belongs, and rarely only 1 person's the bad guy while the other is only a victim (yes it happens but it's very rare).

I will in no way excuse abusive behaviour, and yes, the OP has talked about some concerning behaviours on her partners side. Any couples counselor I know, including myself, will point to this behaviour and say: hey, this is unacceptable. You need to learn to regulate your emotions so you don't victimise others when you get emotionally overwhelmed.
But demonising this person for it has never helped anyone. Especially because she has added that she too can be stubborn, obsessive, fails to empathise or see things from his perspective. Is she a monster for that? No. She's human. So is he.

Now, if the OP had said she was done, she was fed up and she wanted to leave but she had her concerns, I wouldn't have brought up therapy. But we're talking to a pregnant! mother of 2 - soon 3 children who expresses she loves her husband, he's actively involved, a good father and thoughtful husband, and up until recently she had a happy life with him. The escalations are a NEW thing; although his temper isn't. She is concerned about his temper and his verbal abuse, and rightfully so. But what do you think will happen when we all tell OP to leave him?
I can tell you.
She won't. And she'll shut down this conversation and withdraw from it, not wanting to be pressured to leave a relationship she still has hope for. And she'll be left with no other advice or help.

I actually also see hope. I've worked with couples with destructive dynamics. I've seen how things can change of they both want them to. I've seen them ask forgiveness and take accountability. I've seen them learn to be vulnerable with each other again. IF they both want to.
By all means, if OP says she's done, let her be done. But she's not done trying. At least I'm giving her some tools to keep trying to work on it

"I will in no way excuse abusive behaviour, and yes, the OP has talked about some concerning behaviours on her partners side. Any couples counselor I know, including myself, will point to this behaviour and say: hey, this is unacceptable. You need to learn to regulate your emotions so you don't victimise others when you get emotionally overwhelmed".

Do you really think that such a man would sit in front of a couples counsellor?. Not likely and if he did he could well try and dominate the sessions with the other party not feeling or being able to say anything. It also puts her at great risk back home. Such men too can be master manipulators and can rope counsellors into taking their side.

Couples counselling is of no use whatsoever when it comes to abusive relationships. Abuse is NOT a relationship problem or issue, it's about power and control. Of course she is going to try and defend herself because she is being provoked by him. And the abused all without exception say they're not perfect etc as if it is some justification for their abuser's actions. It is not beyond the realms of possibility either that the OP hoped that marriage and or children would change him for the better.

I would also readily assume he is all sweetness and light to those in the outside world; none of his work colleagues get spoken to like he does to the OP. Their image of the wholesome family man is that important to them.

She has a choice re this man and their children do not. There is always a way out. Their safety is of paramount concern particularly as OP is expecting again (some abusive men do also use pregnancy to further keep their chosen target tied down). It is also a well known flashpoint for an abuser to also show their true colours.

Having followed Mumsnet for 25 years. I've seen a pattern with the third baby tipping relationships over the edge. It happened to me too.

We didn't fight in front of the children I'd just say "words" and he'd stop. That gave both of us time to reflect before they went to bed. Often it would have fizzled out because it was silly in the first place.

To me it sounds like you and your DH are both overwhelmed with work and kids and rather than pulling together you’re snapping at each other. I think the suggestion of counselling makes sense because you need better strategies to talk to each other. Could you also get help with housework to give you a bit of a break now that you’re pregnant and soon to have a baby?

Does your DH recognise how unacceptable his behaviour is? It might be normal in his family to say stuff like that so he will not necessarily see the full extent of the damage he does to you and the kids. He needs to be made to understand the consequences of his words. If he really is such a good dad he should be willing to channel his anger better.

DH and I used to have rows but have through years of talking to each other and sharing our views managed to mostly sort them out. We still occasionally flare, but it’s more a few times a year than every week.

I come from a family where aggressive shouting and hurtful words were normal and it took me a while to try and correct that. DH had to learn to leave me be when I got very angry and walked away. If you both are willing to work on it there is hope, especially if you still get on well on holidays when the pressure is not so intense.

Abuse is not about communication or a perceived lack of, it is about power and control. It is also not a relationship issue.

He has a problem with anger, HER anger, when she rightly calls him out on his behaviour. Hence all this from him about he resenting her for how she is in arguments.

To an abuser it’s always someone else’s fault and never their own. Abuse is also insidious in its onset and creeps up on people unawares. I readily assume too he is all bloody sweetness and light to those in the outside world.

@AttilaTheMeerkat
I'm actually very concerned with how much projecting is going on here.
I'm not denying the existence of men (or women) like the ones you describe in your post. The ones who will keep their partners pregnant and dependant to exert control, who manipulate and charm and gaslight their way out of everything.
Those may be your experiences, but fitting every man into that framework just isn't fair. Because it's not the picture that OP has painted. It's what you chose to hear, and any blanks were filled in with what you assume must be true.

And if it is true, I sincerely hope that OP finds the help she needs. I just think it's wrong to hear a women (rightfully) complain about her husbands temper and instantly get deduced to an offender/victim dynamic.

Nothing excuses abusive behaviour. There is no justification for it. But I don't believe in seeing only the bad in someone, especially someone who OP has chosen to have a child with. Not once, not twice, but 3 times. He must have been doing something right to get her to this point. Not every man is an abuser waiting for his opportunity to strike.
Sometimes people get overwhelmed. They get depressed. They get angry. They have childhood pain that suddenly comes up. They get burned out. Whatever the reason is, they misbehave.
Does it absolve them of the consequences or the responsibility? No! No one is saying that. And OP is right to be hurt. But people can be more than just their faults. And the things we label abuse (without minimising the impact of abuse) are sometimes just the effects of people struggling. Does it hurt less for the people they take it out on? Also no, these people deserve to be seen in the pain they have. And they don't have to forgive. But OP is looking for a way to fix her marriage.

And as the wife of a man who went through a serious depression, a man who had been nothing but a loving husband and caring father up until that point, but also a man who struggled that much that he really hurt me in the process, I am thankful every day that I was kind and patient and dragged him to therapy, where he willingly faced the consequences of his behaviour.
If I wrote down the things he said and did during his depression, I'm sure he could be labeled an abuser. And I could be labeled a victim. But that would have ended in a divorce and a broken family, rather than what we are today, which is a genuinely happy family with a large ability to forgive and make ammends.

Its a bit if an error to assign hard and fast labels here. Its impossible to say a priori whether OP’s husband is “ an abuser” or just a “guy with an explosive temper.” Its not like there is a clear border between these two things. However the effect us the same. An explosively angry man who dominates and humiliates his family on a regular basis (whether because of preference or emotional immaturity) is really just a person who is abusive surrounded by a family who loves and fears him too much to demand he control himself.

Both perspectives may be useful for OP because its haemrd to tease out what is going on. Is it can’t be kind and loving? Or won’t be kind and loving?

Either way he has to be willing to accept responsibility and choose change . The fantasy that the love of a good woman and a great therapist can turn this around is just that—an egotist’s fantasy. He is a grown man. If he can’t/won’t recognize the pain he us inflicting he will go on doing it. Then it doesn’t really matter whether its can’t or won’t. It is still abuse.

No projection from me. I have no skin in the game.

Others have also cited ops marriage as abuse and they are correct. Many people also have depression and or rubbish childhoods yet they do not go into abuse their family unit like ops h is doing. He’s acting of his own free will and what he is doing does not amount to mere misbehaviour. She writes that his temper has been a feature of their entire relationship.

There is no justification or excuse for what he is doing to the op and in turn their children.

This therefore cannot be fixed. He is quite happy as he is. Why would he want to relinquish any power and control?. It is the op who is unhappy here. Do you think that such a man would want to sit in front of a counsellor?. Unlikely and what you state re counselling goes against all advice given by domestic violence organisations for people to not enter into joint counselling with their abuser.

Better also to be from a so called broken home than to remain in one.