Are you in OLD? Is “Mankeeping” the new black

[GrandmasCat]

Back in OLD in my 50s. Jesus! Can’t believe the market. Most men I have met for a coffee are professionals, some with very respectable careers, 80% in early retirement or part retirement so we can infer, affluent, all of them between 53 and 62. Common denominator… all of them but one appear to need emotional support to one extent or another.

I was thinking that it could be age related, single older men looking for a potential carer in a partner, but then they are not that old and all of them seem very fit… but one, who is, incidentally, the only one that appears not need to be mothered.

I came across this article in the Guardian, about Mankeeping. Are you experiencing that with other age groups?

I know men have been complaining for years about women just wanting a free meal but, I feel sometimes like they are just looking for a mum…

article to follow, when I find it again…

Article (if we can call it that) on Mankeeping

Read that and can see it being true.
Covid has decimated some male circles, especially younger men, mid 20's.

I can see some of them leaning on girlfriends in a way that a young women never would.

Its sad and I can well understand young women backing away from it.

Bug OP it doesn't surprise me to learn it is in older men too.

What do you mean? I take it you're meeting for coffee. Are they whining and treating you like a therapist on your first date?

Isn't mutual emotional support a normal part of relationships?

I'm wondering this. How much is too much?

If you feel burdened by normal parts of relationships perhaps you're emotionally unavailable and not ready to date. In a healthy relationship you lean on each other - the idea is to choose someone who doesn't have much more than you to lean on you for and you help each other. Maybe a FWB would be better for you?

I think we’ve all been told it’s good to talk, be emotionally open, and so men are 🤷‍♀️

What have I just read? Do people get paid to write that tripe???

I think you’re maybe missing the point - yes, in a healthy relationship you lean on each other. But on first meeting, you don’t pour out all your issues! I have to say I’m biased - as a man in the age group OP is talking about- and while I’m certainly not looking for a Mum, it’s probably fair to say that a year ago I was still carrying too much hurt and baggage from a previous relationship, and being single again was a new and scary place, so I wasn’t really ready. I’d guess the dates @GrandmasCat has ‘enjoyed’ so far have been with men who still had unhealed wounds.

Some of them do… need to say the sample is only about 7-10 guys only (which I am told is a perfectly reasonable sample size to test a beauty product), but in general they sound a bit fragile or insecure, if not on the first date, in the second or so, no matter how high achieving they could be.

It is not that they start talking about childhood trauma but… you know… my “ex wife took away everything from me!!!” claimed by most of them, including the one that arrived in a Porche.

I would probably define it more as a kind of “I am the victim” mentality.

To be honest they have not been bad dates at all, they all had great conversation skills and very interesting lives but yes, they looked like there were some things that needed to be “healed” before signing for OLD.

I found this before I met my current partner. I went to a speed dating event. Men all 45-55. I think I had 3 mins with about 8-10 men. All of them unloaded their traumas on me instantly! Barely even acknowledged my name before unleashing it all. And trust me, I do not have a kindly helpful face, more RBF, and definitely wasn’t inviting these deep confessions. Most of them were newly separated but still living with their wives/partners and seemed to just instantly want to fall into a new ready-made relationship and get it all out there right away, rather than waiting, splitting up properly, healing, and thinking about what changes they needed to make to themselves to improve the next relationship.

I have to say you may have a point there… I am emotionally available but…. Most of my professional life has been about supporting individuals experiencing difficult circumstances ranging from personal issues, to financial hardship or disabilities.

I have found all these roles very gratifying. Do I want a similar role as a partner? In my free time? No, thanks. I am obviously supportive and happy to have each others back as long as it is balanced, I just don’t want to become someone’s personal therapist/cheer leader all the time, which is not the same as saying “I don’t want to support anyone at all”.

As everyone, I like being useful and helpful, but I just don’t want to end up needing to mother my partner… all the time or from the get go. IYWIM.

But back to the point, this not about me, I was asking if this is something that is becoming more prevalent not if I should get a harem of FWB instead.

Interested to hear if you also felt like the same men had a general lack of self awareness or broad perspective.
For example, the guy who accused his wife of taking his money but turning up in a Porsche - id expect a decently intelligent person to understand that divorce financial splitsarre dealt with a certain way for reasond that have evolved due to societal changes over time and that its very old fashioned (and unfair) to indicate that your ex partner 'stole' your money when you willingly entered into a contract that meant that they were entitled to a portion of the marital assets. Or at least understand that saying something like that makes you look like a bitter old man who would prompt anyone with half a brain would think 'hmm, that's an outdated view, wonder what her side of the story is'

From what I remember of the article, it goes deeper than that. Apparently there's an upswing in men who lean very heavily on their partners for their social lives, as counsellors and problem solvers and to deal with anything family related eg birthday cards.

That’s exactly what I mean. The unloading of traumas, health issues, limitations, etc less than half an hour into meeting them or the expectation that you would be sorting all that when you are “together”.

I guess the problem of agreeing to be the supportive person is… if you are taking care of everything, who is taking care of you? And that’s where the term Mankeeping become poignantly adequate.

Oh definitely, it didn’t escape me. I was just short of splurging “the ex wife or the Porsche?”

Pretty much like people who complain they don’t have enough to live while spending £100s in fags or Costa month.

Well as a woman who lost out massively to my ex-husband in divorce, as I was the higher earner, I would say they may have a point! Maybe he can afford the Porsche, but what did he have before?

Where are you finding these interesting blokes? I have recently dabbled with OLD - mid 50s to early 60s. Had a couple of OKish dates with a couple of guys but no connection. Now all the profiles are barrel-scraping - fake pics, posing with women who are possible their wives, sometimes with their kids too, bald (OK at this age understandable), just no imagination to the prompts. Apparently they all spend all their time in the gym - although they don’t look like it and last time I was there I didn’t see many men this age. And they all like a lie-in on a Sunday, a roast lunch (I ain’t cooking) and a drink at a country pub.

Never been mutual in any relationship I've had! Nor in the majority of my friends', come to that.

As the article says, "It’s sweet that you think this is a new phenomenon."

If younger women are opting out of the role of emotional support donkey, good for them.

I am currently pushing DH out of the door in the hopes he’ll leave the house without me occasionally. My attempt to get him in the local bowls group has led me to sit in the middle of half a dozen text exchanges, and he still hasn’t gone.
I have told him he’s got to establish a life of his own. That I won’t necessarily hang around wanting to do stuff with him and he needs to find his own out of the house hobbies.

It’s a bit last of the summer wine, with the women chasing the men out of the house for fresh air.

Men have been doing this forever, they get a wife and think of she's my support person, they don't make lasting, meaningful relationships with other men they use her for it ALL, they bleed their wives dry.

That's why when a man dies his wife is ok in general, she already has a circle of support that she's emotionally invested years if not decades into.
But if the wife dies first the man is at a loose end, women in his family will rally for a while but he won't have male friends to lean on emotionally or to be vilnerable with and typically ends up trying to get another wife to fulfil all the work his previous support human did for him.

This is a joke article by the way, the writing not necessarily the content. Past notes is a regular column in the guardian.

It's just the society balance isn't it, that women who work just as hard as men inside/outside the house just can't be bothered with carrying a whole other person who on the one hand thinks they are the strong provider and should be worshiped as such, and on the other can't wash a sock or tell their friends any of their concerns.

It is changing, H has a gang in a message group, and they talk about everything, meet up, they are spread out, 2/3 times a year together, but in the meantime they discuss pensions, intimate medical appointments, everything actually. It's very sweet and actually quite funny a lot of the time because they all do joke and jibe with each other whilst discussion anal examinations.

So there are some men who are close and very open with each other. And it's great for our teens because they see their Dad talking and they talk or listen to their friends, so hopefully as time goes on there will be more men who do share and fewer who burden just their partners. Time will tell.

I’ve found in life that men on dating sites have 3 things in common.

They are completely driven by sex
They all drink too much
They can’t see past sport as a hobby or interest.

Well I have wondered if the Sunday roast is a euphemism!