First cousin marriage

[Sprinklewithsugar]

Trying to understand why this still happens in the UK between educated, intelligent people. Especially when the risks of genetic inbreeding are well known, not to mention the pressure it puts on the NHS.
Why do people opt to marry close cousins when there are surely other prospective spouses available?
Why do intelligent, educated people take part in such customs?
Genuinely curious.

Surely nobody is this thick?

Edit: Nobody being the people who need this explaining, not you @BlushingBrightly 😬

In fairness to @Bannedontherun she corrected her post quite quickly after that by saying, “Stand corrected third cousins and second cousins once removed, just checked official royal tree.”

Isn’t there a ‘bump phones’ app in Iceland so people ‘newly interested’ in each other can check to see they’re not too closely related before embarking on baby-making?

Which religion is that? I don't know any religion that requires people to marry their first cousins

The problem is that banning it won't stop it, it would just drive it underground. So people would still have a religious wedding, but without doing the legal bit. Which would leave many (already vulnerable, in many cases) women without the legal protections of marriage. It would also mean that people are less likely to disclose that they are cousins to HCPs and access the appropriate services.
E.g. in pregnancy, every couple should be asked if they are related, and a comprehensive family medical history taken. If someone reports e.g. some stillbirths and some severe learning disabilities in their extended family, and also a history of cousin marriage, they should be offered genetic counselling. If couples are afraid to disclose that they are related for fear of prosecution, they may not be offered genetic counselling because the increased risk of recessive conditions won't be on the midwife's radar.
They way to stop it is through education. And there are efforts to improve education amongst the communities that practice it (not just Pakistanis), and it is declining as a result.

Is that because of that sperm donation guy who donated so many times, with so many children, that this has become an issue?

I would be horrified if one of my children decided to have a sexual relationship with a nephew or niece. Any child would be simultaneously my grandchild and great nephew or niece.

I would be as equally horrified if my grandchildren coupled, with each other. It’s just off.

I don't think it would be about preventing marriage, it should be included in the law of incest. How to determine at what point this stops applying, it is a matter for geneticists.

I worked with a mum of seven children whose family tradition to marry first cousins, went back many generations. Her husband had a degenerative brain condition that rendered him as in a vegative state, and all but one of her kids had, no future for them.

Another family all had severe learning impairment and blindness.

I am of irish heritage where there is a number of conditions prevalent, due to limited gene pools in the past.

Too late to edit ^^ Just to add that I had that wrong, it was a guy in the Netherlands who had 1000 children by sperm donation and there's a growing concern about accidental incest in locations where he donated most prolifically

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/article/2024/jun/28/the-man-with-1000-kids-how-a-sperm-donor-deceived-parents-around-the-world

Probably not.

Offering genetic counselling might be a good step, however.

@Cvn But the reasons are not a good enough reason to not make it illegal. It will also take education but it should absolutely be made clear that first cousin marriage is as bad as if you are marrying your sibling.

I don't think anyone has mentioned this, but there is currently a private member's bill to ban first cousin marriages. https://bills.parliament.uk/bills/3907

This article (yes, I know, Daily Mail) inclues some opinion polls - the figures vary between different racial groups, but all groups are against first cousin marriage.

Would you prefer a pretty word for a horrible thing?

Errr no

The late Queen and Philip were first cousins

The whole “keeping money in the family” thing is bewildering to me, if it actually worked people could point at statistics showing that people who marry their cousins are wealthier than average.

I know a perfectly intelligent couple where the dad said to my DH that he planned to marry his DD off to a cousin. It’s cultural habit, he’s convinced that because he knows his family his DD will be taken care of. For our culture/religion marrying cousins is highly taboo so theres an instinctive revulsion to the idea but I think if it is the norm for you then very few people on your family will be talking about the health risks, just the strengthening of family bonds and a belief you can trust.

I remember reading about the idea that people in britain were able to co-operate in a way which made western society comparatively uniquely successful precisely because they broke “clans” by banning cousin marriages. It enabled people to co-operate with people who were basically strangers. One of the reasons it was banned in a Scandinavian country (can’t remember which) is the idea that it will impact crimes committed by clans by breaking up the layers of loyalty. I think you see it in grooming gangs in the UK, quite a few seem to be made up of brothers, uncles cousins etc. theres a loyalty that transcends friendship.

No, they weren't. They were third cousins.

Look at the family tree. They were not first cousins.

Used to be. My grandparents ( both born around 1915) were first cousins and it apparently wasn't that rare.

My mistake - they weren't.😊

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_II_of_Spain

I always think of this poor sod when someone mentions this.

First cousin marriage is just another mechanism to control women. It should be illegal on that grounds alone.

You are asked if you’re related at the first pregnancy appointment.

Where will we go from pursuing this path however? If you had a disabled couple for example, are we now going to stop them from marrying and having babies? Many disabilities have a genetic basis of origin. In fact, a percentage of couples who pursue IVF have genetic issues (which is sometimes why they are naturally infertile) and of course this means their offspring may also inherit those issues, unless more expensive embryo testing is done prior to implantation.

I see this as potentially impinging on personal rights. I know a Christian couple who were first cousins and got married. I think it’s because religious communities are highly interconnected and the gene pool is small, especially in a country like the UK where fewer people are religious.

The best way forward is to provide more information and offer genetic counselling.

@Morningsleepin sorry I did not mean to quote you. It should have been a standalone post!

I know someone who is married to their first cousin, they have three adult children. One of the children has a medical condition, I’m not sure if it’s related to the parents being cousins though but I should imagine so.
They speak about openly and aren’t ashamed, there son went to school with my son and I’ve been told he was bullied mercilessly because of it.
They seem happy but I’m with you, I think they should change the law and put an end to it.

I don’t care if offends.

To have sex and then to procreate with your cousin is just disgusting. I see my child and their cousins play like siblings, the idea of it happening makes me feel physically sick.

I don’t care if it was done in the past, I don’t care if it’s cultural, it’s gross.

You can’t ban incest but you can societally shame or deter and that starts with banning first cousin marriage.

As for the inbreeding complications, well that just further cements that it shouldn’t be happening doesn’t it?

It's common in cultures where daughters are supposed to have a dowry. If you marry your daughter to your siblings son, the money stays within the wider family.

The daughters rarely have a say in this.

I used to work in an area with a high number of people from Pakistan. The level of first cousin marriage was very high. There was a good BBC documentary about this a few years ago.