HELP

[Anon333]

Hi,
I'm looking for some advice on my situation.

I have been on 4 dates with a man (we also texted/phonecalled for about two weeks prior to our first date).
He told me he didn't want to be exclusive yet but he also told me he wasn't seeing or speaking to others bar me....
Last week we arranged a date for Tuesday and Sunday of this week.

Fast forward to yesterday (Tuesday) the day of our 5th date I hadn't heard from him. I messaged him to ask what rime we were meeting tonight and he said an old flame had got in touch with him on Sunday night and he was interested and excited to meet up with her so he thought we should cancel our date and end things. (This was a shock to me as obviously I had no idea the old flame had got in touch on Sunday and myself and him had been speaking normally and happily on Sunday and Monday).

Now he is wondering if because we aren't exclusive yet whether he can see both of us until he decides who to be exclusive with.
Now I obviously know dating multiple people at once is the norm for many these days, and as we aren't exclusive yet he wouldn't be doing anything wrong. But I feel a type of way about it.
A ) this is our 5th date so I was hoping exclusivity would be on the horizon soon. This old flame now seems like it will push it back exclusivity further.
And B) Now I actually know about this woman I feel in direct competition with her.

(Right or wrong I now feel he will be comparing our dates to his and hers, my looks and personality to hers etc.)

Can I even compete with an old flame he has history with?

Any advice or perspective?

I don't actually think what people do has changed massively since I was last single, more the language used around it. In the days of pulling people in pubs and clubs, words like "dating" and "exclusive" weren't used so much. You were pulling them, or possibly shagging them, until you decided you were actually seeing each other. You wouldn't necessarily know if they'd also pulled someone else at this time.

I think you're supposed to be grateful for this guy's honesty and transparency. But the subtext is that you're supposed to try extra hard to please him now you know you've got competition.

Regardless of what language is used, 5 dates is quite a lot IMO. V different to If he'd only met you twice. If you don't both know you want to be with each other, it's either a FWB situation or move on, surely? I would only want a relationship with someone who was so passionately into me at this early stage that they hadn't had the bandwidth to think about anyone else. And regardless of how supposedly"correct" this guy is behaving, do you really still want him now?

He cancelled the date because he was processing that he was interested in meeting upwith her at SOME POINT and processing he'd have to multi date us both.

How can posting this line 3 times not give you the biggest ick?

@Anon333 if he doesn't feel a connection worth exploring with you after 4-5 dates then he won't magically feel one after he's been shagging an ex.

Not to mention that if he was curious enough to dump you now, what's to say he won't do it again next time she rolls around?

This man is not the one for you. He's not emotionally available and that is the crux of the matter.

@Anon333 - so he cancelled a date with you because he’s hoping to see her at some point in the future and multi-date you both? That doesn’t make it better. If anything that makes it slightly worse. He’s actively putting you on ice and asking you to hang around. And as @FartSock5000 says - if he’s not starting to feel excited about you after 4 good dates, he’s not going to be more into you after he’s been with his old flame. You’re the one he’s consigning to the past here, not her.

Stop trying to talk yourself into accepting this.

He’s finding various different ways to tell you he prefers her but fancies having you on the subs bench (as a friend of mine put it). Is that what you want for yourself? To be on his subs bench?

Goodness me, this man has a very high opinion of himself and clearly sees himself as very special.

You know this doesn’t work for you. This guy is not that special. It’s disappointing but this is not the man you’re going to build a future with so stop letting him waste your time.

You have 100% articulated how I feel perfectly. I could of and (reluctantly) would have accepted him dating others until we were exclusive. If he'd have met up with her hypothetically tomorrow and me on Saturday again I could have put up with it as we aren't exclusive. But it's the knowing about it or her specifically which bothers me. Ignorance is bliss and we've had a good thing going on and I just wish he'd have made plans to see her without telling me.

@Anon333

"I can't say he's doing anything wrong" but it's making you feel rubbish, 5 dates in!!

Throw him back, raise your bar and date on your own terms.🌻

He might not be doing anything technically wrong but it’s still shit to expect you to hang around while he decides which one of you gets him as the ‘prize’. Yuk.
How long are you supposed to hang around while he decides? I wouldn’t bother with him.

He cancelled the date because he was processing that he was interested in meeting upwith her at SOME POINT and processing he'd have to multi date us both

I don't think anyone is particularly confused. The detail you're going into to split hairs on whether he's seeing her now or later suggests you're talking yourself into this despite your misgivings, but it's really quite simple - your initial reaction of 'HELP' says you're not okay with this and we're all saying it's okay to not be okay with it and to take some power back. Fuck his processing of this, that and the other. He can process without you hanging around waiting on his decision. Make your own decision to let this one go and he can process not having valued you enough to keep hold of you.

Honestly with the additional context it feels like he's keeping you on the backburner just in case things don't work out with her.

I don't mean that as a slight on you at all btw, just with the history with her he's probably got nostalgic about her and maybe a bit ahead of himself, when there's likely a reason it didn't work out the first time around.

I wouldn't hang about for him (or her) to decide.

OP, please stop gaslighting yourself by saying this guy isn't technically doing anything wrong. He has shown you disrespect and has messed with your head, and that is wrong. Stop handing over all this power to him, he really isn't that special, and bin him off.

This all sounds far too stressful and dramatic for someone you've only met a few times.

Don't get into an unnecessary competition with the other woman, she isn't at fault here. No one is really. He doesn't want a relationship yet and has been upfront about it, you do and there's nothing wrong with that either.

Rather than messing around with 'multi dating' (I feel so old) which obviously isn't for you, I would end it and find someone that wants the same things.

Otherwise, we'll be back here in a few months with him seeing both of you and you getting more and more stressed and pissed off and blaming everyone but him.

I want to date a guy who is interested and excited to meet me. If after 4 dates he isn't sure I am worth focussing exclusively on then he is not that interested and not for me. Same the other way around. If I am not that fussed after 4 dates then I wouldn't want to go for a 5th, I certainly wouldn't keep dating #1 whilst trying out #2!!

Just to clarify again he didn't cancel plans with me to go and see her. He didn't see her last night. He cancelled the date because he was processing that he was interested in meeting upwith her at SOME POINT and processing he'd have to multi date us both. So he didn't cancel the date to see her . Sorry if that caused confusion. X

He's taking the piss. She showed up again. He decides not to go on a date with you that day because he wanted to meet up with her at some point and he was processing having to shag around "multi date".

That's ridiculous. Yes, some people using dating apps do date multiple people at once, but usually (if they are genuinely interested in finding a long-term partner) they'd decide after two or three dates whether there was a connection and stop dating the ones they don't have a connection with to concentrate on the ones they do and then become exclusive with someone they really like.

This guy is not doing that. He's already shown you that you are second choice. He's keeping you hanging on as a Plan B if it doesn't work out with the old flame all under the guise of "multi dating".

You should ditch him and concentrate on finding someone else who isn't going to treat you like that.

He has shown you that he is a shit. If you can't see that then I think you need to step away from the dating scene for a while and do some work on building up your own self-esteem because once you truly love yourself and believe in yourself you attract far fewer assholes like this or are at least more confident at identifying and sending them on their merry way quickly before they take up any more headspace.

Have some respect for yourself.

If you chase him he won’t want you. Walk away.

He’s never going to commit if he gets to have you on the back burner while he dates other woman! Why would he commit? He gets the best of both worlds.

Do you know what would get him to commit? If you have other options. Men love the chase. They need to work for it to feel invested (it’s science- men need the stress hormone to fall in love).

I would tell him ‘No problem, hope it works out for you. I think it’s best if I concentrate on other connections right now but if things don’t work out with your old flame we’ll see where we are in the future.’

I’m sorry but ahahahahhaha at the thought of getting into competition with some random fucking women. He’s setting you both up to beg for him.

What a gimp. Tell him to do one.

I agree with the poster above saying you are splitting hairs with the reason he cancelled your date. Whether he saw her or not, he cancelled seeing you for her, clearly putting you second best. Multi dating or not, she is his preference.

It just sounds like he realised that he could be with two women at the same time, not that he is seeing whether he develops deeper feelings for you and giving your relationship a go. You aren't progressing your relationship with him. You said you'd hoped to have the exclusivity conversation soon, and that he'd said he was not seeing anyone else, so this is a regression.

so he thought we should cancel our date and end things.

This sounds more to me as if he was calling it off with you rather than planning to "multidate" (yuk) but now thinks you'll put up with being another (back up) option for him.

You don't have to be. He'll be polishing his halo and and thinking "Go me, I've been honest, I've done nothing wrong" but the fact is, after 4 dates he should have some idea about whether he wants to continue to get to know you without introducing an old flame into the mix.

There’s no confusion. He cancelled plans with you because he wants to pursue her. He’s trading you like a back up plan.

Value yourself to be someone’s first choice not a consummation prize to pass the time while he chases better offers

I wouldn't want to be exclusive with this man.

You're not his first choice at the moment.

Why should he get to have two women? You're already unhappy about this, and tying yourself in knots to excuse his bad behaviour.

Chuck him back, raise your bar, and start again.

What does "He's not technically doing anything wrong" actually mean? It's a load of bollocks to keep women desperate and other women back it up, it's ridiculous.
And why does it matter OP? How you feel matters and it's making you feel like shit and of course it would anybody. Stop trying to put your very valid and human feelings into this stupid 'socially acceptable' rule and tell him to piss off.

I would say to him that he had given me and my friends the best laugh we've had in years and that of course not he was not exactly a prize and the other woman was welcome to him.

You only met this guy for 4 dates, this sea of red flags comes up, and you are still bending over yourself to find a reason not to throw him out like the trash he is showing you to be, it’s sad.

I’d missed that his first response was to want to end things. Honestly, OP, he’s not for you. He wanted to walk away and not see you again. Like a PP suggested, your willingness to try to talk yourself into accepting being on his subs bench makes me think you’re a bit too vulnerable for the OLD scene.

And ignorance is only bliss until you find out the thing you didn’t know. Then it hurts like hell and you’ll wish you’d known sooner.

OP, don't allow someone so thick to mess with your self esteem.

He's not the brightest button.
He certainly isn't in to you, as if he was he wouldn't risk it pissing you off.

Save yourself further annoyance and just say no thanks, delete.

This won't get any better with him.