Should my wife support me on this?

[OzzyGrandad]

My wife & I attended a Christmas dinner at our daughters in laws. The dinner was on the table but there were still a few items to be placed & finalized. I asked my daughters mother in law if it was ok to start, she said yes. The rest of the party sat down & I had already begun eating. (I admit was not a good move). I believe the son of the mother in law wanted to say grace before dinner & was angry that I had started. He launched into a tirade of abuse, aggressively belittling me about my bad manners. I tried to explain that his mother had said it was ok to start, but this was ignored. I remained calm for the rest of the evening & then we went home. The next day I texted the son, explained my position & informed him that I would not tolerate such verbal abuse again, hoping he would regret being so abusive & apologize. He texted back, F off D Head.
We drop our grandson at his house every weekend & he returns him on Sunday. I asked my wife, when he drops his son off, to be courteous, but to not show any of the usual friendliness, just pick him up & say goodbye until he apologizes to me for his behavior. My wife refused, saying it was between me & him. She behaved as if nothing had happened & was friendly.
My question to the readers of this story is, should my wife have agreed to just be courteous & not friendly, or was she right to ignore my feelings on the matter.

You can reply to any poster by clicking the "quote" button on their post.

Sorry you're in this situation but it's probably time to let it go. Just ignore the abusive guy.

@OzzyGrandad I just have to say first, you absolutely do not start eating until everyone has, at least, sat down at the table - that's basic manners - and had you waited you would have found out that the father of your grand-child was planning, on this one occasion, to say grace.
That said, assuming your characterisation of his berating you as "a torrent of abuse" is accurate, and that others present also thought it was unacceptable, I would also be disappointed that my spouse didn't support me in highlighting his abusive behaviour and asking him to apologise for it - very disappointed - because I think couples should have each other's backs when it's justified. Maybe that's the problem though? Maybe she thinks you were ill-mannered and that his response wasn't "abusive". Have you asked her what she thinks of the actual incident?
BTW, in order to reply to someone directly, you either click the "quote" button on their post, or just put a @ in front of their username (as I have to you on this post) without quoting them.

You were rude as a guest, but the host was beyond rude - to belittle a guest under his mother's roof? Wow. Nothing stopped him from starting to say grace, then you would have stopped in your tracks. The job of a host/hostess is to make everyone welcome, relaxed and even if guests start discussing politics/religion/sex at the table, the job of the host is to calm everyone down, be courteous and welcoming. I have heard of cases when guests were rude, but this is the first time I read about host berating guests at a Christmas table. You are rude, but this man is a real swine. Your poor wife.

The son in law is being dramatic

Oh hello, it's yet another of those 'Bored Panda' style dilemma threads.

You were both rude. He was worse though, because he completely overreacted. A good host should have not drawn attention to your slightly bad manners.

As for the rest, I can't be bothered to form an opinion because...well, see my first sentence.

Jesus wept everyone needs to get a grip and grow up.

You were rude to start eating dinner
He was right to be a bit annoyed but it was hardly the end of the world
You were wrong not to just let it drop and text him again
He was wrong to swear and call you a dickhead

You are wrong to keep a stupid feud going all this time and to try and control your wife

I’d hazard a guess you’re of the “I’m the man and boss and head of my house” type person and the truth is you’re just a silly irrelevant old man now

Grow up

@OzzyGrandad - You were very, very rude. Doesn't matter if you asked or not. It was rude even to ask. Other people hadn't even all sat down when you started. Your wife clearly has better manners than you do.

So I think you and your Son in Law are both in the wrong and you both deserve to apologise to each other for your lack of manners - but your behaviour was shocking and I can at least understand why the SIL was annoyed. He should have been politer, or spoken to you separately later, but he had a point. You have none

Your wife is doing the right thing in refusing to get involved. She must have been mortified you behaved the way you did at the meal.

A grandad complaining on mumsnet about something that happened almost 5 months ago? Is this one of the weekend trolls?

If this is real then you’ve caused this acting like a selfish pig at a special family meal. Why did you think it was ok to ‘get stuck in’ when not everyone was at the table? Your wife is right to disregard you and not lose her own connections to bolster your silly old man ego trip.

@OzzyGrandad why cant you just state the relationships correctly?? you go to your daughter in law's home, is your son, her husband, not in attendance?? your daughter is incapable of looking after her own child? any valid reason for this??? twisted family!

More utter batshitness.

I can’t believe you started eating Christmas dinner before everyone was seated.

Your Son IL sounds abusive and aggressive.

I don’t blame your wife for staying out of it.

Have there been previous hostilities?

You did not make a 'mistake' or an 'error', you were incredibly greedy and rude. Saying that, he was also wrong to shout at you.

My wife agreed that his verbal abuse was shocking & uncalled for but she is the type who prefers not to rock boats & just put up with it. I had hoped that on this occasion she would have stood by me & remained cordial but not friendly so as to send a message that his verbal abuse will not be tolerated. Thanks for the quote tip.

Wow, he's disgusting to treat a guest in his mother's home with such aggression. I think your wife could've shown you more support, but that's her decision to make. Maybe your behaviour isn't new to her?

The son seems very immature, I'd ignore the little toad & move on.

@OzzyGrandad The way I see it - it is wrong to have verbally abused you as you put it. Your wife has agreed that is wrong - so in that sense she supports you. You want her to give him the cold shoulder? What purpose would that serve in your mind? A show of support? I think maybe in this case it can be harder for her because you were in the wrong as well. And it seems that you agree it was a bad move but you then deflect by saying MIL said it was ok. I’m going to assume you’re over 40 as you have a grandson so seems it’s a fair assumption. It’s completely unreasonable to ask to eat before everyone sits down - surely you must know that? Regardless of what mother in law said. You shouldn’t have even asked. So maybe this is what wife is not willing to do what you asked because you’re not innocent either. Just a thought.

I also think she should only be cordial and not friendly, the son needs to be sent a message that his controlling bullish manner won’t be tolerated otherwise he will likely continue!

He seems awful and his behaviour isn't okay

Interesting he had no interest in actual custody of his child.

You and your wife are doing a wonderful thing.
I can see why your wife isn't "siding with you" and my guess is it's more to do with your grandson.
You dont want to do hand over with there being animosity and the father taking it out on his son in some way.
Without going into details, it's likely GS has already had a lot to deal with and your wife is extra protective of him

Could this be a factor?

Interestingly, and I'm not even sure what my point is here... as you aren't there at drop off she could have easily lied and said "yeah sure honey" and done what she liked and been nice as pie and you'd never know...

I think its worth thinking about what is important and what you really want... if its his respect or sincere apology (you can prob forget it) if it's a relationship with your GS you need to push it to the back let wife do contact and try and rise above it (I'm not generally an advocate of this but you might want to for your GS's benefit)

The op has explained the relationships.

He has a daughter who has a son. He and his wife care for the grandson full time because his daughter is not capable of doing so. The daughter is not in a relationship with the father of her child. He sees the child once a week and doesn’t pay any child support.

For Christmas, they went to the grandson’s father’s family home and the op got into an argument with his grandson’s father.

FWIW, I think starting to eat before everyone else was served was a bit rude but your grandson’s father was far ruder. I understand why your wife wants to keep the peace as it is important for your grandson to have a relationship with his father if at all possible, but he also sounds like a total shit so don’t take his opinions of you to heart and do your best to ignore him completely. You might also want to reconsider asking for child support- that would probably really hit him where it hurts - far more than cold politeness.

Well, in that case, I would also be very disappointed in her failure to support me in an overt, unambiguous way with the father of your grand-child, and I'm sorry she's not supporting you in this way.

This in addition to a number of those replying who have not read @OzzyGrandad posts with further information. I understand his reluctance to not want to post too much information initially due to the sensitivity of the situation .
In @OzzyGrandad situation I would question the 'fathers' value to any aspect of his grandsons life. Doesn't care for his son, doesn't contribute financially, grandparents good enough to care full time for their grandchild but make a small error and he feels the need to be reprimand someone who has stepped in where he has failed. Perhaps time to evaluate what possible positivity an abuser brings to your grandchild's life. Was he charged for his abuse? I would also question playing happy families with him, his parents and possibly other family members at Christmas or any other time of the year.

I would say you’re in the minority here. That’s like saying “I don’t mind if someone skips a queue; it doesn’t fuss me” when most of (at least British/English/Scottish/Welsh/Irish) society would mind. Etiquette exists for a reason and is borne from social norms and expectations. Still… the son is, arguably, ruder to draw attention to OP’s faux pas and certainly to aggressively berate it.

Having read your updates, I am amazed that you have any expectations of good behaviour from this deadbeat, who also sounds like a rapist????

When people are known to be bad and unstable, YABU to expect otherwise. I would just avoid this guy tbh.

No, since then you have sent him a text trying to have the last word and fanning the flames, and then sulked until he apologises, and tried to drag your wife into your sulk.

I am willing to bet that you can’t stand the man (he sounds like an twat all round) and that there are more issues than your daughter’s sole ‘incapacity’ to look after their son. Guaranteed there is a back story.

God some of the posts on here are so OTT and nasty… “ you’re a dickhead, your wife should leave you” 🤣 some MNers are honestly pathetic trolls. Yeah you were a bit rude to start eating at a dinner hosted by someone else, but it really isn’t THAT big a deal. It should’ve just been ignored or the son should have spoken to you in private and told you how he felt. It’s totally out of order to (assuming you haven’t exaggerated) start verbally abusing you in front of everyone else. Then call you a dickhead, total over reaction considering the “crime”. I’d be disappointed in my wife for not supporting me but ultimately accept that she doesn’t want to be involved and move on. I wouldn’t apologise again to the dick of a son. I’d tell him how out of order he was then remain civil but cold

You come across as a man who doesn't like to admit he is wrong.

You were rude to even ask to start serving yourself food before being invited to do so.

You asked the wrong person for permission to start as your DIL was the host, not her mother.

You were in the wrong to start eating before everyone else was seated.

You don't say whether you apologised at the time but you do say you tried to explain which suggests you didn't but tried to shift the blame to someone else, ie the DIL's Mum. However in the contact the following day you doubled down, rather than apologising. You should have apologised immediately and left it there.

Whichever guest got aggressive - was out of order.

It is very unpleasant to watch 2 grown men having a pissing contest up a wall to prove they're right.

You wife clearly thinks you were in the wrong, She knows you well and doesn't want to get drawn into your childish argument.

As my Mum used to say - 2 wrongs do not make a right. You were wrong - at least twice. Apologise if you stand a chance of being invited to any future Christmas dinners. Apologise to the male guest AND to your DIL for causing an unpleasant atmosphere are her Christmas table and on going.

Use this as a opportunity to learn to read a room and not to make bad mannered mistakes.

@OzzyGrandad FYI you’re only getting all this hate cos you’re (assumedly) a man!