Can someone with autism /with a partner with autism explain what I got wrong here?

[Frozenpeace]

DH (diagnosed with autism) is lovely but sometimes I just find his interpretation of things baffling. I have learnt to be blunt and clear about things after various mistakes over the years. But this one threw me

DH on his way to the shops, "I don't want you left out when all the rest of us get chocolate eggs, what can I get for you?" (I don't really eat chocolate)

Me "I would love a lovely bunch of flowers, or some flowers for the garden "

DH (chocoholic) "oh I know, I'll get an extra big and fancy egg for us to share"

Thats a clever idea. I used to use those for my children when they were tiny and I didn't want them to have lots of /any chocolate

Cute!

He's trying.

You didn't get anything wrong. But the Man clearly loves you and cares about you.

I sympathise as my DH is autistic. Sometimes I could carve the hole where he is going to go in the patio! But my god that man has integrity. He's the most loyal man I've ever metm if he says he's going to do something - he'll do it. If he promises something - he'll never break it. He loves me so totally and unconditionally - it just looks so totally awkward 😅. I think this is one of these moments!

My take on this is that he didn’t want it to LOOK like you were left out (maybe to the kids?) so his suggestion would work, especially if you’d previously said you didn’t want anything.
agree that it’s to do with the eating aspect of it so flowers wouldn’t work

I was wondering if the tradition around Easter was quite rigid in his own family.

I’ve learned never to expect my autistic DH to get me the right thing from the shop, no matter how clearly and directly I ask him. The last straw was when I asked him to pick me up a Fruit & Nut, and he got me a Double Decker because ‘Fruit & Nuts are disgusting and nobody likes them’. He thought he was being nice, and saving me from my own incorrect preference.

I have come to avoid involving him in food, gifts, or in fact anything that involves an understanding that his tastes and opinions are not universal and objectively correct and should override anyone else’s.

It’s infuriating but it’s not arrogance. It’s a “theory of mind” deficit. Easier to just circumvent it, I agree, when you’re busy, but also easier to make peace with it when you remember it’s not coming from a place of arrogance.

I’m autistic and if I asked dh what he would like and he said flowers. I would get him flowers. That’s really straightforward. Now if you had replied “don’t bother getting me anything you and the kids have loads of chocolate and ill have nothing” you would stand the risk of me thinking - great one less thing to worry about! But even then if I knew you well I would probably twig you weren’t happy.

He’s just not listening to you OP, it’s not about his autism. You were very clear. And why should you be expected to analyse every single thing you say? That’s not fair to you.

Yes, please do make peace with being ignored or having your wants and needs overriden by someone who thinks they know better than you. What terrible advice.

Everyone should read this thread. Everyone.

It’s a really good demonstration of the difficulties of managing autism.

Lots of people convinced that this absolutely is/absolutely isn’t a manifestation of ND thinking.

And an OP who still isn’t sure what to expect when she gets home!

Surely though the person doesn't have to agree with your preferences, but can still grasp they need to do what you asked for, not what they think is better?

I think a ND person should try to meet their partner partway: "OK I think nobody likes fruit & nut, but that's what my OH asked for, so I'll just get what they said."

I don't think the NT person should just settle for endlessly not getting what they asked for.

The two autistic partners I've had had very rigid thinking. If their mind was set on something, me saying something else (even though they'd literally asked what I wanted) would panic them. They generally only considered how they feel in a given situation and assume everyone else would feel the same. Your partner would not benefit from flowers, but he would from eating chocolate. I doubt you will be able to persuade him that Easter doesn't have to equate to chocolate because that's what's in his head.

Are you sure it’s to do with his autism? It seems like as soon as something goes wrong you’re automatically blaming yourself for not dealing correctly with his autism. Stop being so hard on yourself! Autistic people can be at fault too (I’m autistic). He’s your husband, it’s lovely that you want to understand him but a marriage has to work for both of you.

I get this, but it is not functionally much different from arrogance in the effect it has on others, and makes a lot of things very difficult and complicated - particularly when our child, or someone at work has different ideas or opinions from DH about minor things and he is tireless and very intense and sometimes quite aggressive (though he insists he’s just being logical) in his quest to make them understand they are wrong and need to think and do things his way.

It is infuriating whatever you do, though, isn’t it? There have been times (interspersed with much better times) when the only thing that has prevented me from initiating divorce is the thought that coparenting with him would be worse than being married to him. Once you have children with someone, that’s the bond you’re in. Either way, I just try to keep my own blood pressure stable and remind myself that he’s not actually ill intentioned.

I get you - coparenting from a distance would be a nightmare, and really awful for DC. And there is no way of ‘not standing for’ the deep rigidity of thinking and behaviour that my partner can’t change. But I find I keep more of a sense of self worth and autonomy intact if I just keep myself and DC as separate as possible and make sure we have what we need without needing to rely on or consult with DH. If I get too far into the contortions of being understanding and facilitative of his differences - when we get none of this back - it’s a slippery slope to falling in with his rigidity and control.

I don’t think it’s even as simple as ND v NT.

As @autisticbookwormsays, she is ND and could navigate this. So am I and so could I.

There are also lots of ND women like me who are functioning at a much more nuanced and socially competent level than our ND spouses. It’s tempting to think “if I can decide this as an ND adult, then so can he” but that’s not really how it works.

ND men are often socially more impaired than ND women. Also ND individuals vary massively anyway.

In the end, anyone with a socially incompetent spouse has to decide whether to leave or stay. There’s only so much improvement you can get with a thousand reminders. You can’t “fix” someone whose behaviours drive you mad. Acknowledging the role autism plays can help reduce the hostility, though.

I hope the next generations will get the benefit of being diagnosed younger and knowing a bit more what they’re getting into when choosing a spouse.

That’s understandable. It’s exhausting just thinking about what the D.C. are making of it all, isn’t it?

Can I just say I do find the theory of mind thing offensive. Yes autistic people can really struggle with this skill. But it does not mean all autistics when expressly told how someone else feels we don’t take that information in. Some autistics won’t be able to but to be functioning in society to the extent you have a job and a spouse you will have understanding that other people do not feel exactly as you do and have different beliefs values and preferences. I think we do a lot of harm to the autistic community by excusing poor or selfish behaviour as not something that can be changed and therefore should be accommodated without question. Yes accommodations will be needed but still explain why you are upset or that you mean something different to what has been understood etc

there is a wealth of research into empathy. Autistic people do care deeply about the emotions of others and are affected by it more than the average NT person according to some research. It’s just not always obvious if we haven’t picked up the person if feeling/wanting something.

unless he thought you were being sarcastic which would be a result of you using sarcasm at other times and causing confusion he knew you wanted flowers not to share a bigger egg.

It definitely seems to be more of an issue for some (the more socialy impaired men??) My theory of mind is absolutely fine. Empathy isn’t quite the same thing, but I’ve always been excessively empathetic, if anything. So I wasn’t suggesting it’s a blanket thing for spectrum folk.

Anyway, haven’t (even) the “experts” now understood that the issue for aspies can be knowing how to practically express empathy, not a problem with feeling empathy in the first place?

One of my DC definitely had more trouble with these things that the others, but if you get them young, they can make huge leaps. IME it’s harder to help an adult with these things.

Exactly. Surely you don't need us to tell you to say that? That is the obvious and only response to what he said, whether he's autistic or not. Some men just don't listen because they can't be bothered.

'No DH, not a shared egg. You asked me what I would like and I just told you. Please listen. I don't mind if I get nothing, but if you are going to go to the trouble of asking me what I'd really like, then at least pay attention to the answer and don't come back with the thing I DON'T want. Thank you.'

They hear what they want to hear and nothing else. I once got a toasted sandwich maker for my birthday. As days before my birthday a friend was over and wanted to make one. ‘No,’ I said. ‘I don’t have a toasted sandwich maker because I don’t really like toasted sandwiches’. Dh overheard. (Yes the whole thing) and thought lightbulb moment. We don’t have a toasted sandwich maker that’s what I’ll get.

can’t even explain it to him why that was dumb.

'still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest ...'

The Boxer, Simon & Garfunkel

I understand this. He’s worried you’ll be left out of the category ‘easter egg’ and doesn’t want you to be.

”I don't want you left out when all the rest of us get chocolate eggs, what can I get for you?"

If he actually said this he doesn’t frame it as an alternative, he’s still trying to work out how you can not be left out of eggs, how there can be an egg for you. He then solves is by saying he’ll get a big egg that you can nominally co-own. Your responses don’t solve the problem in hand.

Just trying to explain.

This