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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

I don't know how to move forward

121 replies

Girlmum2024 · 01/04/2025 14:05

Our marriage has never been easy but by and large we have made it work. We have kids and a big mortgage, both work full time and I've always believed in making it work and staying together not least for the sake of the children.

He's always said I am not loving and affectionate enough. Specifically, he says he wants more compliments, gifts, flirty texts. He wants a lot of sex, though, he says its the quality, not the quantity. The sex is good and I would say averages out at at 1-2 times a week over the course of a month, though usually concentrated in a two week period when I am not on my period.

So why the issues. The things he wants and needs from me, I give to the best of my ability. But I need connection, time together, affection even outside of sex. I have been through a lot (cancer when our youngest was 2, kids with additional needs, I am ND and have a lot of trauma from my childhood) and need him to acknowledge that and show empathy, He likes to be alone. He cannot show empathy - much by his own admission. He is a "duty", not "love" person.

Post sex he is amazing and warm and affectionate, almost like it is a drug for him. But within a couple of days that starts to dissipate and he withdraws. I know and feel that he wants more from me but it is so hard to do when he is uptight, distant, moody. So I wait for the next opportunity to go to bed and then he is fine again. I find it draining. And I resent it. I am never rude or angry or aggressive towards him. I just get on with the hum drum of our full life.

He wrote me a 8 page note a few months ago, explaining his need for sex, love, attention, compliments. His words "I am an Fu**ing rock star to everyone else, but not to you". We talked about it at length a couple of times and I said I would try to do better and also explained what I needed. Any time he is down and starts to do his withdrawing of affection thing it will culminate in him mentioning the "note". How it has not been addressed. We've been on long walks to discuss further times and we go round in circles.

Sometimes the moods have escalated to him sleeping in the spare room and refusing to engage with me. Will talk if I speak to him but otherwise will have nothing to do with me. Once this went on for two months. Another time he was abroad for business for a week. We'd had a small row before he went (nothing major, in fact I can't even remember what it was about). I was 8 months pregnant with no.4 about to pop, still working full time and had the younger kids to looks after. He wasn't in touch the entire trip. Not one call or text or message. Nothing.

This weekend was a normal one. We watched movies together, barbqued with the kids etc. Then out of the blue he mentions the note. I could see he was seething. He said I never dealt with it and I am stone walling him. He said he's researched it and it is a form of abuse. I was on my way out so shortly after I messaged him to say I am sorry he thought that, it was not the case and we should talk. A few hours later he responds with message after message (about 20 in total) saying I am a narcissist, manipulative and I refuse to give him what he wants. He sent me definitions of stone walling and emotional abuse and said that whether I admit it or not that is exactly me. I was reeling and in shock. I have not eaten or slept. I feel sick. I don't have the strength to do this. I can't even look at him at the moment. There was no build up (just his usual being distant and moody) and no obvious trigger, we'd been chatting like regular things and then bam!

In my heart I know this is not right and maybe we need to both move on. But I am terrified. I don't know how to fix it. I think I am scared because actually I don't know if I want to anymore. I feel done. Spent. I have zero interest ever in hurting him or controlling him. I just can't give what he wants (and seemingly vice versa) does that make me abusive? He is right, the issues haven't been addressed but they are not ignored. It's just a two way thing - I can't give him what he wants when I don't feel that way about him when he behaves the way he does. We go round in circles!!

Please help me work through this.

OP posts:
Yulelogish · 03/04/2025 15:58

Essentially, yes, that is what he wanted because all that matters to him are his needs. However, even if you could meet all his requirements laid out there, he would still find other things to complain about, because the point is to keep you destabilised and confused. Please look up covert narcissistic traits. I think you will find many of them are familiar -- in your husband. I lived a similar dynamic for 20 years in my marriage. There's a lot of cognitive dissonance because we can't believe/understand why someone would act like that. But it/he will not change. There is no point discussing it or trying to persuade him otherwise. He won't see it because while things are like this, he has power and control over you, and that is his aim.

Yulelogish · 03/04/2025 16:13

I understand my response may seem dramatic. But when you are living it, it is hard to see. Once you get it, it is hard to unsee. I would also recommend the book, Was it even abuse, as well as It's not you. They will be eye opening.

PeggyMitchellsCameo · 03/04/2025 16:14

Trying to talk to him is like dealing with a monkey holding a machine gun - it’s a waste of your time.
He has no investment in talking with beloved, equal partner.
His only need is to dominate you so that you comply with his demands.
He has no thought for your thoughts, feelings or needs.
You need to find your anger in that it’s time to stop trying to communicate with this man. He will drive you mad. You will lose every ounce of health you have.
It is time to start planning for your future without him.

Chezxx · 03/04/2025 16:23

Girlmum2024 · 03/04/2025 08:44

What do you mean by coercive control in this situation? Do you mean that he is using the withdrawal and silent treatment to force me to meet his demands?

Yes.
Exactly that. Domestic abuse organisations are trained to advise and support women being abused that don't fully understand or believe it.

This is a bad man, committing a crime.

Girlmum2024 · 03/04/2025 16:32

Yulelogish · 03/04/2025 16:13

I understand my response may seem dramatic. But when you are living it, it is hard to see. Once you get it, it is hard to unsee. I would also recommend the book, Was it even abuse, as well as It's not you. They will be eye opening.

Thanks - I think I am getting it. I think I got it a long time ago but I have buried it deep. I don't want to believe it. It is too painful. I think that a part of the reason I went to speak to him this afternoon was to validate what I think I already know - in a way his responses help me to confirm, but it is weird because I still can't fully accept it - because I know that once I do, once I say it out loud and say it to him it is over. It is one of the reasons I force myself to fix things when this happens is because I want to hide the truth. I can't face it and don't know if I am ready for it. I have been a coward and right now I still am. I am still terrified. 24 years of marriage... it's not easy to just walk away.

At the same time, a sense of relief that I don't have to go through the emotional headfuck of now going to bed with him and making a huge effort when I know in my heart of heart of hearts it is wrong.

OP posts:
SanCelestino · 03/04/2025 16:37

Chezxx · 03/04/2025 16:23

Yes.
Exactly that. Domestic abuse organisations are trained to advise and support women being abused that don't fully understand or believe it.

This is a bad man, committing a crime.

This is the truth in plain words.

User5274959 · 03/04/2025 16:38

I can't get past him saying he's a rock star everyone. What a twat! 🤣

Maitri108 · 03/04/2025 16:40

OP everything about this is abusive. His moods, his silent treatment, his euphoria when he gets what he wants. His notes, sleeping in the spare room, seething, his demands. It's all abusive.

He's constantly needling you for sex and to meet his needs. He's a bully.

You can contact Refuge via their webchat and discuss what's going on. They're open till 10pm.

SanCelestino · 03/04/2025 16:44

Girlmum2024 · 03/04/2025 15:13

So we've not been speaking. He is totally ignoring me (and to be fair I am ignoring him as well this time around). So, I took a break from work and decided to see if we could have a reasonable chat. I am documenting it here so I remember exactly how it played out and get some advice:

  1. He is sitting outside in the garden on his own listening to something on his airpods. I pulled up a chair and went and sat down next to him. He heard a sound, so took out his airpods and looked to see who it was, saw me and promptly put them back in. (I probably should have left)
  2. I then said " is now a good time for us to chat?" He paused and then said "sure, speak". I said "what prompted this, what happened? We had a nice weekend and then bam. I don't understand where it came from, why?" He said, whilst shoving his air pods back in "oh I am not doing this, you know what is wrong" I said "I really don't, why now suddenly?" He said "it's all in the note and you refuse to address it". I said "I am not refusing, I had immediately suggested that we find some time to talk. You then sent me a barrage of texts accusing me of being controlling, manipulative etc, how did we get to that from a nice weekend?" He said "its not been nice, you've not dealt with anything in the note, it is all there". I said, "So, why not say you want to talk about it, instead of withdrawing and sending me aggressive messages?" He said "I am not doing this".
  3. I got up and said "well you know what, neither am I". I was furious.
  4. I then went back and said "Do you not think that we might be able to deal with things if you didn't punish me like this all the time?" He said "I see, so this is all MY fault" I said "We can't fix things if you treat me like this. If you really think I am so controlling and a manipulative narcissist aren't we actually done?" He rolled his eyes and then said "see, this is what stone walling is". I said "No, I am here willing to talk and you are now gaslighting me, if you'd like to be using all the technical terms".
  5. I then told him that his withdrawing in this way and giving me the silent treatment was abuse and we both need to go and speak to someone independently to figure this out because if EITHER one of us is abusive then we are not on a level playing field and counselling won't help us. He just ignored me and I walked off.

I didn't raise my voice, I was totally calm but it took all I had not to throw everything in sight at him. It was the most unreasonable exchange and we got absolutely no where. I know that was perhaps predictable.

Did he just want me to go to him and tell him I am sorry and will do all the things he has asked for? (Usually, I do actually do a version of this, though I don't tend to apologise but try to find a way through because, who can live like that otherwise?)

The note will be his undoing. He is an extremely controlling and manipulative abuser. This is the definition of coercive control. He wants you to comply with the terms of the note. Do not comply. He is bullying you and you will be better off without him. Stonewall him now. No more begging and pleading.

SanCelestino · 03/04/2025 16:46

Maitri108 · 03/04/2025 16:40

OP everything about this is abusive. His moods, his silent treatment, his euphoria when he gets what he wants. His notes, sleeping in the spare room, seething, his demands. It's all abusive.

He's constantly needling you for sex and to meet his needs. He's a bully.

You can contact Refuge via their webchat and discuss what's going on. They're open till 10pm.

This - and abusers are more dangerous when they realise you have had enough and will leave. Please contact Refuge today:

https://www.nationaldahelpline.org.uk

Homepage - National Domestic Abuse Helpline

Are you experiencing domestic abuse? You are not alone. Find out how the National Domestic Abuse helpline can support you.

https://www.nationaldahelpline.org.uk

Tiswa · 03/04/2025 16:47

The use of the word rockstar is interesting because it makes him want you to be a groupie and look up to him - his note was all I I I and his needs - he looks to be the narcissist

and frankly your poor poor children I suspect he gives nothing to them

it is over and I think you know it all you are doing is prolonging the inevitable

Mmhmmn · 03/04/2025 16:49

Pleasehelpme90 · 01/04/2025 14:08

I got to the paragraph about the 8 page note and didn’t need to go further. He’s an abusive POS and you need to get away as soon as you can. I’m not usually one to shout LTB at the first chance but he sounds insufferable OP.

Same. Eject him from your life OP. You'll be so much happier without that emotional car wreck in your face making his various DEMANDS and making you the problem.

And this first bit:
He's always said I am not loving and affectionate enough. Specifically, he says he wants more compliments, gifts, flirty texts

So you've never been the right person for him but he chose to stay and attack your character rather than call it quits find the right person for him and allow you to find someone who loves and respects you.
(I doubt there is a right person for him. What you say paints a pic of someone who was either extremely over-indulged or completely neglected growing up)

That rockstar thing is so cringeworthy I could never let him near me again without barfing.

Yulelogish · 03/04/2025 17:04

@Girlmum2024 You are not a coward. You've been trained over all these years to put his needs first. It's incredibly subtle. And, yes, the sense of relief... My ex was so angry when I dared to challenge him that he told me we had to get divorced -- I grasped that with borh hands... Would also recommend iammonicayearwood on Instagram. And look up micro rejections and micro aggressions.

MrTiddlesTheCat · 03/04/2025 17:10

Girlmum2024 · 03/04/2025 16:32

Thanks - I think I am getting it. I think I got it a long time ago but I have buried it deep. I don't want to believe it. It is too painful. I think that a part of the reason I went to speak to him this afternoon was to validate what I think I already know - in a way his responses help me to confirm, but it is weird because I still can't fully accept it - because I know that once I do, once I say it out loud and say it to him it is over. It is one of the reasons I force myself to fix things when this happens is because I want to hide the truth. I can't face it and don't know if I am ready for it. I have been a coward and right now I still am. I am still terrified. 24 years of marriage... it's not easy to just walk away.

At the same time, a sense of relief that I don't have to go through the emotional headfuck of now going to bed with him and making a huge effort when I know in my heart of heart of hearts it is wrong.

OP trust me on this one, when you finally close the door on a man like this you will instantly feel a million times better. It physically feels like the weight of the world has been lifted off your shoulders. Because as it stands now, you are being crushed under the weight of his abuse.

Girlmum2024 · 03/04/2025 18:13

Mmhmmn · 03/04/2025 16:49

Same. Eject him from your life OP. You'll be so much happier without that emotional car wreck in your face making his various DEMANDS and making you the problem.

And this first bit:
He's always said I am not loving and affectionate enough. Specifically, he says he wants more compliments, gifts, flirty texts

So you've never been the right person for him but he chose to stay and attack your character rather than call it quits find the right person for him and allow you to find someone who loves and respects you.
(I doubt there is a right person for him. What you say paints a pic of someone who was either extremely over-indulged or completely neglected growing up)

That rockstar thing is so cringeworthy I could never let him near me again without barfing.

Its the former - Over-indulged, definitely not neglected. His mother literally worships the ground he walks on - she pretty much says as much. He was totally pampered. I am very close to her and she knows there are problems but I don't discuss details with her.

OP posts:
Omgblueskys · 03/04/2025 21:18

Girlmum2024 · 03/04/2025 16:32

Thanks - I think I am getting it. I think I got it a long time ago but I have buried it deep. I don't want to believe it. It is too painful. I think that a part of the reason I went to speak to him this afternoon was to validate what I think I already know - in a way his responses help me to confirm, but it is weird because I still can't fully accept it - because I know that once I do, once I say it out loud and say it to him it is over. It is one of the reasons I force myself to fix things when this happens is because I want to hide the truth. I can't face it and don't know if I am ready for it. I have been a coward and right now I still am. I am still terrified. 24 years of marriage... it's not easy to just walk away.

At the same time, a sense of relief that I don't have to go through the emotional headfuck of now going to bed with him and making a huge effort when I know in my heart of heart of hearts it is wrong.

Hay op well done, you change your approach when chatting to him , he seemed not to be listening but he was and he won't like your new approach to this situation, let him chew on it he will be fuming he hasn't got what he wanted, well done, small steps taking back control, carnt wait for updates as he will come back to this and may be angry, so watch out, gray rock him, walk away, sing a song, great you didn't empty the kitchen over him ,
He wants you, tearful, sad, nervous, and reading the 8 pages to see were you're gone wrong, what a rockstar he is ,
Slow but steady hay, give yourself an high five in the bloody mirror girl

Oneflightdown · 03/04/2025 21:49

Before sex, I psyche myself up for it, knowing it will be worth it after, because he miraculously transforms into someone so unbelievably loving. And then when he withdraws I do feel like I am to blame, because I haven't been enough.

OP, this is heartbreaking to read. Please stop having sex that you do not want, as you're experiencing doing that will destroy you. What you are describing is his sexual abuse of you, you are not having sex with him of your own free will. (I agree he is also emotionally abusive and possibly financially as well - why do you have to ASK him for extra money for big bills, why is it your responsibility?)

The rockstar comment is, as others have said, hilariously horrific. Everyone else thinks my husband is a rock star (he kind of is, he's a surgeon) but I think he's a nice, attractive bloke with a mixture of qualities (intelligent, kind, funny, great in bed, thoughtful etc.) and quirks (inability to wipe down a work surface properly, always forgets to pack his own socks, can't coordinate veg to be ready at the same time as the main to save his life) i.e. a normal fully rounded actual human being and he LOVES me for that because I'm one of the only people (thank you childhood best friends also) that he can be himself with. A significant proportion of other people view him with a kind of faint awe which he detests. Your husband sounds like an actual, diagnosable narcissist. Start telling people the truth of what is happening, you need to let in the light.

WakingUpToReality · 03/04/2025 21:50

OP the extract of the note - it’s actually made me feel really ill reading it. It is so, so manipulative. This is not a safe person for you. He doesn’t want a two-way relationship, he wants you to focus on him 100%, with nothing left for you. I think you should make plans to safely leave in the near future.

Girlmum2024 · 04/04/2025 13:53

Hi - sorry to harp on now but appreciate any insight. He (not surprisingly as it always the same) is still totally ignoring me. I have spoken to him a few times about holiday related stuff and items to pack etc. and he refuses to look at me when he responds and is brief - yes, no, whatever. I can see him seething. It's unnerving.

Do you think he knows he is being unfair and unkind? But just can't help himself. Or does he actually believe this is justified and I deserve to be treated like this? I just don't get it.

The only relief I have this time round is that whilst it is making me feel on edge at home I don't have the weight that I normally do of trying to figure out a plan to fix it and bring him round. (and I can say that almost without exception its only ever been properly "fixed" and he goes back to normal once we've had sex - but that's not happening again).

OP posts:
Maitri108 · 04/04/2025 14:00

What's heartbreaking for many survivors of abuse is when they learn that he's in control of what he's doing and is doing it on purpose.

Some spend years, twisting them inside out, trying to find the key to make him be nice. They'll never find the key because he'll keep moving the goalposts.

Your husband wants power and control. He wants his needs met. He wants to be treated like a rockstar. A rockstar is adored and snaps his fingers to get what he wants.

He's punishing you with the silent treatment and he wants you to apologise and pander to him. I'm sure his goal is sex.

He doesn't consider you at all, so he doesn't worry about being unkind. He's all about getting his needs met.

Girlmum2024 · 04/04/2025 14:02

But he would get ALOT more sex if he didn't behave this way! It is just so baffling

OP posts:
AnonAnonmystery · 04/04/2025 14:06

@Girlmum2024 it seems sex is very transactional to him. It should be about passion, love and bonding but this is all about him really. Makes we wonder if you have to just concentrate on his pleasure during sex or he will switch. I get a bit moody if I haven’t had sex for a few days, I am aware of it and as soon as I get like that I stop. Because it isn’t fair on my partner. The fact that he’s extra nasty makes him more than aware, he knows that he’s doing as he knows you will cave and give him sex to make him “normal” again. Honestly you have 4 children and work - it seems he is oblivious to anyone else’s needs apart from his own.

Maitri108 · 04/04/2025 14:12

Girlmum2024 · 04/04/2025 14:02

But he would get ALOT more sex if he didn't behave this way! It is just so baffling

Sex is a way of exerting power and control. Some abusers withold sex because they know it's painful for the other person. They'll do that even though they want it.

Comtesse · 04/04/2025 14:14

“Ultra alpha” - vom.

“I’m a rock star to everyone else” - also vom.

The ego has landed. His letter is all about servicing his ego. He is a nasty piece of work.

You are who you are - 4 kids, cancer survivor, working full time. Why does he need you to be a completely different person? You are awesome as you are.

turkeyboots · 04/04/2025 14:21

I read your extract of his note as a total toddler tantrum. He's mummy's special boy but needs you to remind him of that all the time. And your comments about his mother totally reinforced that. Once you see it that way, it's so needy and revolting.
Send him off on holiday alone and go see a lawyer. Your DC clearly already see through being bought, so don't stay thinking it's better for them.

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