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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

I don't know how to move forward

121 replies

Girlmum2024 · 01/04/2025 14:05

Our marriage has never been easy but by and large we have made it work. We have kids and a big mortgage, both work full time and I've always believed in making it work and staying together not least for the sake of the children.

He's always said I am not loving and affectionate enough. Specifically, he says he wants more compliments, gifts, flirty texts. He wants a lot of sex, though, he says its the quality, not the quantity. The sex is good and I would say averages out at at 1-2 times a week over the course of a month, though usually concentrated in a two week period when I am not on my period.

So why the issues. The things he wants and needs from me, I give to the best of my ability. But I need connection, time together, affection even outside of sex. I have been through a lot (cancer when our youngest was 2, kids with additional needs, I am ND and have a lot of trauma from my childhood) and need him to acknowledge that and show empathy, He likes to be alone. He cannot show empathy - much by his own admission. He is a "duty", not "love" person.

Post sex he is amazing and warm and affectionate, almost like it is a drug for him. But within a couple of days that starts to dissipate and he withdraws. I know and feel that he wants more from me but it is so hard to do when he is uptight, distant, moody. So I wait for the next opportunity to go to bed and then he is fine again. I find it draining. And I resent it. I am never rude or angry or aggressive towards him. I just get on with the hum drum of our full life.

He wrote me a 8 page note a few months ago, explaining his need for sex, love, attention, compliments. His words "I am an Fu**ing rock star to everyone else, but not to you". We talked about it at length a couple of times and I said I would try to do better and also explained what I needed. Any time he is down and starts to do his withdrawing of affection thing it will culminate in him mentioning the "note". How it has not been addressed. We've been on long walks to discuss further times and we go round in circles.

Sometimes the moods have escalated to him sleeping in the spare room and refusing to engage with me. Will talk if I speak to him but otherwise will have nothing to do with me. Once this went on for two months. Another time he was abroad for business for a week. We'd had a small row before he went (nothing major, in fact I can't even remember what it was about). I was 8 months pregnant with no.4 about to pop, still working full time and had the younger kids to looks after. He wasn't in touch the entire trip. Not one call or text or message. Nothing.

This weekend was a normal one. We watched movies together, barbqued with the kids etc. Then out of the blue he mentions the note. I could see he was seething. He said I never dealt with it and I am stone walling him. He said he's researched it and it is a form of abuse. I was on my way out so shortly after I messaged him to say I am sorry he thought that, it was not the case and we should talk. A few hours later he responds with message after message (about 20 in total) saying I am a narcissist, manipulative and I refuse to give him what he wants. He sent me definitions of stone walling and emotional abuse and said that whether I admit it or not that is exactly me. I was reeling and in shock. I have not eaten or slept. I feel sick. I don't have the strength to do this. I can't even look at him at the moment. There was no build up (just his usual being distant and moody) and no obvious trigger, we'd been chatting like regular things and then bam!

In my heart I know this is not right and maybe we need to both move on. But I am terrified. I don't know how to fix it. I think I am scared because actually I don't know if I want to anymore. I feel done. Spent. I have zero interest ever in hurting him or controlling him. I just can't give what he wants (and seemingly vice versa) does that make me abusive? He is right, the issues haven't been addressed but they are not ignored. It's just a two way thing - I can't give him what he wants when I don't feel that way about him when he behaves the way he does. We go round in circles!!

Please help me work through this.

OP posts:
Vaxtable · 01/04/2025 23:25

So start with writing your own letter. Tell him how his sulking and withdrawing makes you feel and what you want from him

Although I think it’s gone too far. Let him go on holiday at Easter with the kids. You stay behind and start getting ducks in a row to leave he isn’t capable of loving you as you should be loved

Maitri108 · 02/04/2025 01:18

He wrote me a 8 page note a few months ago, explaining his need for sex, love, attention, compliments.

You've got four children and he wants to be treated like a rockstar? He expects you to care for four children and simultaneously shower him with praise, have loads of sex, compliment him and give him all your attention. Let's not forget presenting him with gifts like a sultan.

Is his fantasy you naked at his feet staring up at him in adoration?

He sounds barking mad.

Withdrawing and giving you the silent treatment is emotional abuse.

I don't understand post after post of women in shitty relationships assuring everyone that they never speak above a whisper or get cross. I'd be telling him to shove his note up his arse with his head.

Don't give him another thought.

category12 · 02/04/2025 06:06

He's the abusive one.

Material stuff might be nice but it's not worth being held to ransom and being made to feel not good enough day in day out.

Sex should be fun and out of love, not to appease your husband because he's a nasty prick.

Blackbookofsmiles1 · 02/04/2025 06:35

So all the effort has to come from your side….thats not how a good marriage works and why it isn’t working. It’s both people trying, both putting in effort for the other. Unless he steps up too, it’s never going to work. He needs to make changes too, his lack of stamina is the problem as he can’t manage more than two days.

BitOutOfPractice · 02/04/2025 06:42

He reckons you’re abusing him? He reckons you’re a narcissist? What a joke of a man.

BitOutOfPractice · 02/04/2025 06:44

And also I’m not surprised you have no energy. I feel absolutely exhausted just thinking about all this relationship effort and angst. No thanks.

Maray1967 · 02/04/2025 08:22

BitOutOfPractice · 02/04/2025 06:44

And also I’m not surprised you have no energy. I feel absolutely exhausted just thinking about all this relationship effort and angst. No thanks.

Yes - there is no way I’d accept this. Get him told - grow up, or we’re done. He’s behaving like a demanding preschooler.

SugarPlumpFairyCakes · 02/04/2025 09:27

Wow. What a bully.

He's a rockstar to everyone else? My arse.

So he wrote you a note explaining his demands and calls you abusive because you have not yet addressed it?

He's horrible.

Imagine life without him. Without that horrible pressure to have sex with a nasty spoiled brat. It would be amazing.

SugarPlumpFairyCakes · 02/04/2025 09:29

And I'm sorry but you can't fix this. It's entirely his problem.

What a weirdo he is.

Please gather up your courage and tell him to do one.

Honestly. It won't get better especially if you keep 'trying' because he will see that as an opportunity to keep bullying you.

Girlmum2024 · 02/04/2025 16:56

outerspacepotato · 01/04/2025 18:03

You're abusive because you only have sex with him a couple times a week and you don't send him flirty texts or pretend that he's the center of the fucking universe?

What a fuckwit. Get him a fleshlight because that's what he wants, sex on demand. He doesn't care about his partner, he demands quality (which he determines) sex on tap.

This guy only cares about himself. He's nailed emotionally abusive sex pest.

Your marriage is likely going to end. No one can keep up with the needs of someone showing this kind of behaviour and it sounds like he's getting even more demanding with 8 page notes then sending 20 abusive texts and silent treatment of a heavily pregnant woman. You need to read Why Does He Do That by Lundy Bancroft, there is a free PDF online.

Do not do joint counseling with an abuser. They just learn how to abuse you better.

Thank you for this book recommendation. A lot of it is not relevant to my situation but it really made me understand a lot about the elements of my relationship that are abusive and understand them better. That said, I have spent all day analysing it and questioning it. But the more I look back the more I know it is true and I've put up with things I shouldn't have for too long.

Most interesting which is what some of you have said is that one should not go to couples counselling with an abuser. Until the abusive behaviours stop there is no chance of resolving the underlying issues. And that's the nail on the head for me. I can't fix the issues and give him what he wants when he punishes me the way he does if I don't give him what he wants/needs. There has to be a level playing field for couples counselling.

He is so clever and manipulative when I think about it. So many examples I haven't shared - but I don't think I will ever be enough. There will always be something and I will always be punished. There is relief is starting to acknowledge this but also a world of pain and fear that deep down I have always avoided - hence I just keep trying. I still don't know how I will move forward but thank you to all who have responded - you have helped.

OP posts:
SoOxon · 02/04/2025 17:21

Pleasehelpme90 · 01/04/2025 14:08

I got to the paragraph about the 8 page note and didn’t need to go further. He’s an abusive POS and you need to get away as soon as you can. I’m not usually one to shout LTB at the first chance but he sounds insufferable OP.

me too! I felt so enraged my face flushed! this is awful, sexual coercion plus I wager a goodly amount of delusion on hispart.

My exH did this to me - assured me he had a high sex drive and thought that if he married me he would at least have regular sex. I laughed. For him it was physical Ovaltine.

This man of yours OP is dreadful, you will see, we will all be unanimous.

One step at a time or this will overwhelm you and you will not be able to think straight.
Keep coming back if you falter, we do speedy responses on here.

StJulian2023 · 02/04/2025 17:26

He sounds like an absolute disgrace.

SoOxon · 02/04/2025 17:32

Girlmum2024 · 01/04/2025 15:05

Re gray rock, I looked it up. The reaction he wants is for me to pay him the attention he wants. So when I don't give it, he accuses me of refusing to make things right, and now stone walling him. Hence the renewed anger. I swear I am not doing anything on purpose. I know he wants the texts, the flirty messages, the adoration. I don't feel like that and I can't put it on. I just can't. Right now I want nothing more than to run away, not give him what he wants. Before sex, I psyche myself up for it, knowing it will be worth it after, because he miraculously transforms into someone so unbelievably loving. And then when he withdraws I do feel like I am to blame, because I haven't been enough.

I am desperate for it to be different. But as I type this out I do hear myself. It's not right but I can't help but question myself and kick myself for letting it go wrong every time. I am just not who he wants me to be and sometimes I hate myself for it.

this is the cycle of abuse is it not? the belittling then reward? the name calling, verbal abuse, unrealistic expectations of you as a woman, wife, mother, he sounds unhinged - and he is choosing your clothes? amazing they may well be but your agency is being removed in chunks.

SoOxon · 02/04/2025 17:34

Plantmother71 · 01/04/2025 23:05

Don’t delete the messages, or destroy the letter. Keep them saved somewhere.

He’s an arrogant little turd. He is an abusive bully. In fact there are narcissistic traits in how he has behaved towards you.

This isn’t healthy and it will break you. It sounds like it has already affected the kids and this is not a good example for them.

Please, get those ducks in a row. I think I’ve only ever said LtB once on here in the last few years, but this is definitely a time to advocate for you to leave.

You’re worth a loving and kind man who will not have to ‘buy’ everyone’s love.

O yes absolutely, take photos of the letter/s, hide it/them, screenshot text messages, be vigilant, take care.

Livelovebehappy · 02/04/2025 17:36

He's awful and clearly gaslighting you. He's looked up narcissist and other words on the back of his 'research" and is gaslighting you into believing his labels. I would get rid of him. It sounds like a miserable existence for you. You will feel liberated from this shit once you're free of him.

SoOxon · 02/04/2025 17:38

BitOutOfPractice · 02/04/2025 06:42

He reckons you’re abusing him? He reckons you’re a narcissist? What a joke of a man.

Edited

classic transference and projection

ie whatever he accuses OP of is a reflection of himself

SoOxon · 02/04/2025 17:39

I do think Mumsnet should have a kickback from Lundy Bancroft !

AttilaTheMeerkat · 02/04/2025 17:46

It’s not you, it’s him. HE is really those things he describes of you.

How can you be helped into leaving your abuser?.

Crushed23 · 02/04/2025 17:49

Pleasehelpme90 · 01/04/2025 14:08

I got to the paragraph about the 8 page note and didn’t need to go further. He’s an abusive POS and you need to get away as soon as you can. I’m not usually one to shout LTB at the first chance but he sounds insufferable OP.

I also didn’t read past that bit. He sounds awful.

In any relationship, one should ask themselves ‘Would I be happier single?’ If the answer is yes, it’s time to get those ducks in a row.

ConiferBat · 02/04/2025 17:59

@Girlmum2024 when you were ill with cancer, what happened? I'm assuming there would be a period where you felt very worried, or I'll from treatment & didn't want sex?

Did you force yourself because else he was unpleasant?
Or was he understanding?

Honestly though, it sounds an exhausting & really unpleasant existence being his wife.

Girlmum2024 · 02/04/2025 18:30

ConiferBat · 02/04/2025 17:59

@Girlmum2024 when you were ill with cancer, what happened? I'm assuming there would be a period where you felt very worried, or I'll from treatment & didn't want sex?

Did you force yourself because else he was unpleasant?
Or was he understanding?

Honestly though, it sounds an exhausting & really unpleasant existence being his wife.

When I was ill I was in hospital for the best part of 18 months. I had multiple surgeries and I didn't respond well to chemo so had to have small doses regularly as an inpatient and then it often took me weeks to get my cell count up again so had to be isolated. So I wasn't actually at home much and we had to have a lot of support at home for the kids (I had two under 4 at the time).

I don't have a clear recollection but from memory he was sensitive to my illness and was kind and gentle when we first started having sex again. And I know that my illness must have been tough and frightening for him.

He does do genuinely kind things (like buying me the clothes, which was not a control thing, he just knows I hate shopping and needed some new things) and I think that's why it is so extra hard when he behaves this way. I can't reconcile the two.

OP posts:
Girlmum2024 · 02/04/2025 18:47

SoOxon · 02/04/2025 17:32

this is the cycle of abuse is it not? the belittling then reward? the name calling, verbal abuse, unrealistic expectations of you as a woman, wife, mother, he sounds unhinged - and he is choosing your clothes? amazing they may well be but your agency is being removed in chunks.

Just to be clear he doesn't name call or generally verbally abuse.

But he is clever. He doesn't tend to raise his voice, he speaks in very low tones, especially when he is angry and rarely swears. Objectively he is acting beyond reproach and so it is hard to call him out on things and so I question myself all the time. Intuitively I know he is being cruel. There have been times when I have literally begged him to hug me because I have been so distressed, sobbing my heart out and he just cannot do it. If I haven't given him what he needs, if he is not high on whatever it is that drives him, he just won't. He will literally leave me sobbing.

OP posts:
SugarPlumpFairyCakes · 02/04/2025 20:18

He's cruel, isn't he?

Tears you down and leaves you in a mess.

Never ever beg him again. You are so much more than that.

yeesh · 02/04/2025 20:29

the only good things you say about him in money but money isn’t everything. To say there is no love lost between him and the children really says it all. He’s an abusive bastard

AnonAnonmystery · 02/04/2025 21:00

The rock star comment - he sounds narcissistic.