I don't know how to move forward

[Girlmum2024]

Our marriage has never been easy but by and large we have made it work. We have kids and a big mortgage, both work full time and I've always believed in making it work and staying together not least for the sake of the children.

He's always said I am not loving and affectionate enough. Specifically, he says he wants more compliments, gifts, flirty texts. He wants a lot of sex, though, he says its the quality, not the quantity. The sex is good and I would say averages out at at 1-2 times a week over the course of a month, though usually concentrated in a two week period when I am not on my period.

So why the issues. The things he wants and needs from me, I give to the best of my ability. But I need connection, time together, affection even outside of sex. I have been through a lot (cancer when our youngest was 2, kids with additional needs, I am ND and have a lot of trauma from my childhood) and need him to acknowledge that and show empathy, He likes to be alone. He cannot show empathy - much by his own admission. He is a "duty", not "love" person.

Post sex he is amazing and warm and affectionate, almost like it is a drug for him. But within a couple of days that starts to dissipate and he withdraws. I know and feel that he wants more from me but it is so hard to do when he is uptight, distant, moody. So I wait for the next opportunity to go to bed and then he is fine again. I find it draining. And I resent it. I am never rude or angry or aggressive towards him. I just get on with the hum drum of our full life.

He wrote me a 8 page note a few months ago, explaining his need for sex, love, attention, compliments. His words "I am an Fu**ing rock star to everyone else, but not to you". We talked about it at length a couple of times and I said I would try to do better and also explained what I needed. Any time he is down and starts to do his withdrawing of affection thing it will culminate in him mentioning the "note". How it has not been addressed. We've been on long walks to discuss further times and we go round in circles.

Sometimes the moods have escalated to him sleeping in the spare room and refusing to engage with me. Will talk if I speak to him but otherwise will have nothing to do with me. Once this went on for two months. Another time he was abroad for business for a week. We'd had a small row before he went (nothing major, in fact I can't even remember what it was about). I was 8 months pregnant with no.4 about to pop, still working full time and had the younger kids to looks after. He wasn't in touch the entire trip. Not one call or text or message. Nothing.

This weekend was a normal one. We watched movies together, barbqued with the kids etc. Then out of the blue he mentions the note. I could see he was seething. He said I never dealt with it and I am stone walling him. He said he's researched it and it is a form of abuse. I was on my way out so shortly after I messaged him to say I am sorry he thought that, it was not the case and we should talk. A few hours later he responds with message after message (about 20 in total) saying I am a narcissist, manipulative and I refuse to give him what he wants. He sent me definitions of stone walling and emotional abuse and said that whether I admit it or not that is exactly me. I was reeling and in shock. I have not eaten or slept. I feel sick. I don't have the strength to do this. I can't even look at him at the moment. There was no build up (just his usual being distant and moody) and no obvious trigger, we'd been chatting like regular things and then bam!

In my heart I know this is not right and maybe we need to both move on. But I am terrified. I don't know how to fix it. I think I am scared because actually I don't know if I want to anymore. I feel done. Spent. I have zero interest ever in hurting him or controlling him. I just can't give what he wants (and seemingly vice versa) does that make me abusive? He is right, the issues haven't been addressed but they are not ignored. It's just a two way thing - I can't give him what he wants when I don't feel that way about him when he behaves the way he does. We go round in circles!!

Please help me work through this.

Please write on his 8 page letter “too long didn’t read”
The rockstar comment is bizarre.

This is one of the worst men i've ever read about on Mumsnet. I am so sorry that you are going through this OP. I agree with everyone - you are the 'Rockstar' : a cancer survivor, mum of 4 and working FT also.

I imagine right now you are struggling with a lot of cognitive dissonance. Please read up about covert narcissists, this seems to fit your husband to a T. He even admits he doesn't have any empathy and giving you the silent treatment when you were 8 months pregnant was unforgiveable.

Please leave this man. For yourself. You don't deserve this. Your life matters. Look at the unanimous response from everyone. This is not a good man. If you can't do it for yourself, do it for your children. Break the cycle. We can all see your strength OP. Don't let this man break you.

I will be praying for you.

Write him an eight page letter detailing everything that you have said on here about how he is preventing you from being the way he wants you to be by his behavior

This is an extract from the note - he resent it to me in one of the texts so I am copying it here and I would appreciate some thoughts on this as it is making my head hurt figuring out if I am creating the problem.

Intimacy is a big part of my emotional, psychological and physical wellbeing. I cannot feel close/content without it. It’s my ‘happy pills’, self-esteem reinforcer etc. I cannot perform well without it. I work in an ultra-alpha, high performance environment and having a wife who doesn’t find me attractive/makes no effort in a critical part of our life/has no s*xual appetite etc is not sustainable. It puts me into a deep state of depression and anxiety.

The thing is I do make an effort constantly - the sex is good and he knows it and he is on cloud nine afterwards, like a different person. But as I said it then tails off - I have tried increasing the amount of sex but it makes no difference. I will still get punished with withdrawal and silent treatment. When he refers to intimacy he means outside of the bedroom as well - he wants lots of compliments, to talk about sex when we are not doing it, flirty messages. I I can't keep up with it and it's making me go crazy. I am on egg shells. I want to scream.

I have never said his needs are wrong - he can feel and need whatever he likes, that is him, but how can he punish me for not being able to deliver them? How can he force that out of me when the cycle of withdrawal and silence is never ending.

This withdrawal/silent treatment is abusive. You’re not a sex doll! He’s trying to control you. So what if he works in an ultra-alpha, high performance environment? What about your needs?

You are in an abusive relationship and until you accept that, reach out for help, this is your life.

He is also using coercive control to sexually pressurise you, which is a crime.

Please talk to a Domestic abuse organisation.
This is not a good man.

When he refers to intimacy he means outside of the bedroom as well - he wants lots of compliments, to talk about sex when we are not doing it, flirty messages

And what does he do to make you feel this way? Sounds like fuck all.

What do you mean by coercive control in this situation? Do you mean that he is using the withdrawal and silent treatment to force me to meet his demands?

He wrote me a 8 page note a few months ago, explaining his need for sex, love, attention, compliments. His words "I am an Fuing rock star to everyone else, but not to you".

Of course he's a rock to everyone else- they dont live with him or really know what a cunt he actually is.

Your marriage is over. There's nothing to fix

Yes, he is. He has you walking on eggshells. Please Google coercive control.

Well that's the point. He doesn't do the things he asks of me but I get the silent treatment if I don't do it for him.

But he truly believes I am being narcissistic and stone walling him. I think he genuinely believes that. Even though his messages acknowledge we have talked about it loads - but that I refuse to accept accountability and make changes. He sent me a definition of stone walling which explained that it is used as a form of manipulation and control and then said to me "Can you really say that you are not doing that?"

You're staying with this ultra alpha rockstar for the kids?

they find him moody and difficult

I feel like you're at the point where the scales are about to fall from your eyes about the reality of the relationship, and your children's experience of it.

Don't enter into couples counselling, get some individually for yourself. You will need support to extract yourself from this. And you'll probably find, when all the dust is settled and you're responsible for buying your own clothes and don't have to perform sex acts to keep the peace for a lunatic, your children could see right through him before you could.

Keep going. This is not the way.

I'm so sorry OP you have put up with such a lot.

I had a bit of this behaviour from Dh at the start of our marriage but he was going through his recovery from a terrible upbringing and luckily for me he got therapy. His therapist told him he can ask for reassurance / compliments etc etc but it would be unreasonable to expect me to provide them. That saved our marriage I think because I just couldn't do that as well as 3 kids and work and a lot of the home stuff since he worked very long hours and travelled a lot.

I don't actually know how you manage to have sex with someone so needy and manipulative. You know that pit of neediness is bottomless don't you? And you know that his needs will always trump yours by a long way?

I think this man is a narcissist and I don't see your future with him as a happy one. Sorry OP but once you break away I think you will see just how much of your energy and life he has sucked out.

Oh my goodness, he is gaslighting you. Please talk to someone at a local domestic abuse centre or contact Refuge.

I could not agree more. He sounds unhinged.

Stop concentrating on what he says and thinks, that doesn't override your thoughts and feelings. What do you feel about what is going on? That's your truth and that's what matters here. What do you want for yourself?

You're stuck in an indefinite unsolveable puzzle for you to try to get right for the rest of your life unless you can do this. Tune him and his eight pages, and badgering text messages out, put your fingers in your ears, carve out some space for yourself where you can see the wood for the trees, and try to listen to what you feel.

My exH was the same, on and on about sex non stop, he wanted the entire weekend to be sex.
Constantly attention seeking but never did anything for me.
I eventually just told him to f**k off. It was a relief when he did. I was sick of the occasions and holidays he ruined by being nasty to me and sulking because he hadn't had enough sex, it absolutely killed our marriage.

“I am an Fuing rock star to everyone else, but not to you"

I couldn’t read past this part. My vagina would close shut so tightly only a divorce would open it back up again. 🤮

Thank you for making me laugh this morning! I feel the same about this totally making me recoil.

I also developed vaginismus at the rock star comment! See your GP, take a photocopy of the 8-page letter and say your libido has plummeted since reading it. Get that letter officially recorded somewhere. Do not let it ‘disappear’ when DH realises how it makes him look.

I talked to a man on OLD who arranged to meet me in my home town - not my home. He booked a hotel for himself. Then - and only then - he informed me he needs constant sex because his mother didn’t hold him enough when he was a baby. I cancelled the date. I’m not a sex doll and I can do without these kinds of demands. I’d rather be single.

There aren’t many things worse in a relationship than the feeling you are being constantly assessed, knowing that if you don’t meet (ridiculous) expectations you will get the treatment, be it silence, verbal, or anger. It’s not meant to be like this - nothing like it. It’s a rare LTB from me.

I feel sad for you that you feel you are to blame in anyway for this shit show.
Does he think he’s living in The Wolf of Wall Street? Well, even the wife in that left him in the end because he was an idiot.
Sex is not a drug, although it seems to be to him. He needs a supply not to get depressed?
He is repulsive and yes this is coercive control.
Please, please stop questioning your own intuition. You know he’s behaving abusively, his moods are upsetting the whole house.
Sex for women has to include connection and respect. There is none here, and he’s putting labels on you which are cruel and untrue.
Get some help and advice and get out. It’s never going to get better.

Omg. I read this thread early doors & genuinely thought he'd said 'YOU (OP)!are a rockstar to everyone else but you don't treat me as well as everyone else' blah blah blah.

I didn't realise he'd actually called HIMSELF A ROCK STAR.
How did you not die of cringe?

Seriously though OP, I say this quite a lot on MN. You need to find you anger. You've been twisting yourself in knots to make this twat happy, forcing yourself to have unwanted sex, pandering to an ego while repeatedly being made to feel shit about yourself.

If you keep doing what you did, you'll get what you got. You don't sound happy. You don't seem to feel loved.

Be brave, find your anger at him treating his wife like a fuckable object, rather than his life partner, and let him know full barrels, how shit you feel. Let him start his gaslighty bollocks, let him stonewall you & sulk. Stay angry & tell him this sulky twattery is exactly what you mean. Show him you're at the end of your tether with his shit and see what he does.

So we've not been speaking. He is totally ignoring me (and to be fair I am ignoring him as well this time around). So, I took a break from work and decided to see if we could have a reasonable chat. I am documenting it here so I remember exactly how it played out and get some advice:

1. He is sitting outside in the garden on his own listening to something on his airpods. I pulled up a chair and went and sat down next to him. He heard a sound, so took out his airpods and looked to see who it was, saw me and promptly put them back in. (I probably should have left)
2. I then said " is now a good time for us to chat?" He paused and then said "sure, speak". I said "what prompted this, what happened? We had a nice weekend and then bam. I don't understand where it came from, why?" He said, whilst shoving his air pods back in "oh I am not doing this, you know what is wrong" I said "I really don't, why now suddenly?" He said "it's all in the note and you refuse to address it". I said "I am not refusing, I had immediately suggested that we find some time to talk. You then sent me a barrage of texts accusing me of being controlling, manipulative etc, how did we get to that from a nice weekend?" He said "its not been nice, you've not dealt with anything in the note, it is all there". I said, "So, why not say you want to talk about it, instead of withdrawing and sending me aggressive messages?" He said "I am not doing this".
3. I got up and said "well you know what, neither am I". I was furious.
4. I then went back and said "Do you not think that we might be able to deal with things if you didn't punish me like this all the time?" He said "I see, so this is all MY fault" I said "We can't fix things if you treat me like this. If you really think I am so controlling and a manipulative narcissist aren't we actually done?" He rolled his eyes and then said "see, this is what stone walling is". I said "No, I am here willing to talk and you are now gaslighting me, if you'd like to be using all the technical terms".
5. I then told him that his withdrawing in this way and giving me the silent treatment was abuse and we both need to go and speak to someone independently to figure this out because if EITHER one of us is abusive then we are not on a level playing field and counselling won't help us. He just ignored me and I walked off.

I didn't raise my voice, I was totally calm but it took all I had not to throw everything in sight at him. It was the most unreasonable exchange and we got absolutely no where. I know that was perhaps predictable.

Did he just want me to go to him and tell him I am sorry and will do all the things he has asked for? (Usually, I do actually do a version of this, though I don't tend to apologise but try to find a way through because, who can live like that otherwise?)