Married to someone with Asperger's/ASD/ND: support thread 15

[BustyLaRoux]

New thread.
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This thread is for those of us seeking to explore the dynamics of long term relationships with our ND partners. Some of us are ND ourselves, very many of us have ND children. It is a support thread, and a safe space, it does get emotional at times. Avoid sweeping generalisations if possible, try and keep it specific to you and your partner.
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It's complicated and it's emotional.
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The old thread is here.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/5245372-married-to-someone-with-aspergersasdnd-support-thread-14?page=39&reply=143014416

@DucklingSwimmingInstructress I appreciate you replying and know it seems like im acting like a nut. I thought things were fine as they were, and we were integrating more as a family. So id like to have continued that way longer term. I have always been totally committed. He certainly had his big issues generally relating to his autism but we still managed these together. It hasn't been easy. What I struggle with is the 180 from being attentive and caring, to nothing. Im someone who values stability and continuity.

I appreciate your thoughts and it stopped me reaching out again.

You are going to have another major issue also if you carry on a relationship and that’s communication, conflict and resolution. You are likely going to spend the whole relationship like this, confused, unresolved and backing down until they get their way. I don’t find any middle ground can be achieved because they can’t communicate, they feel attacked and shut down. It’s like stonewalling and it’s an abuse tactic used to basically wear you down. Not saying it’s abuse but it’s definitely a behaviour used by people not mature enough to communicate and take on different points of view.

How long ago did you contact him? If a day or two ago I would definitely leave it. If more than a week I might feel inclined to ask if all is OK?

DP also shuts down at the sniff of any difficult emotional talks. He pretends he is just processing his feelings and wants to find the right time. And on some occasions we do come together and talk, but mostly he’s using that to delay a difficult conversation he doesn’t want to have. It’s like all of his task avoidance. If it’s a thing he doesn’t want to do, then he makes excuses, procrastinates, blames external things as to why it can’t be done. In short, he doesn’t want to do it so he won’t. So it’s shut down and avoidance.

I used to want to talk everything out. Couldn’t bear bad feeling or things not being right. And I’d push for him to talk to me. But of course trying to force an autistic person to do things according to another’s schedule isn’t going to go well. So I learned to just let those chats go. We didn’t discuss our problems. Not really. Things were left unsaid. Avoidance. Pushing down my own emotional responses. It wasn’t really ideal.

So whether you try and have the conversation depends on a number of factors. How long it’s been since you last contacted him. Whether he’s someone who has a history of not being able to discuss difficult things, or whether he is someone who can do that but in his own time and when he initiates it. If the former, are you OK with squashing down your emotional responses? If the latter, are you OK to wait until he is ready? I found having an autistic partner has meant doing a lot of things in ways which suits them. The living apart means I have a hell of a lot more agency and we are both more relaxed so things are easier generally. I know you don’t live with your DP. But do you get what you need and vice versa? Are things mainly done according to how he wants? How have you handled other emotional conversations? Are they left dangling or do you come together when he’s ready? And are you OK with that?

@BustyLaRoux im similar to you in that i like to talk things out/not leave stuff unsaid. He does have a history of putting his head in the sand/not answering mails etc - but i would say he forces himself to when it relates to me. Now that the issue is between us, im hating the silence. I reached out to talk about things because i missed him/i l believe there is a great love there. I didnt write this, just that i missed him and how was he. This was yesterday and also the day before so hardly any time. But all im thinking is what if he never contacts me again - does that mean this whole relationship meant nothing? Surely thats madness after everything

You are coming from a place of empathy and you can love what is not in your face. I hate to say this but lower levels of empathy will change how he views you. There is a chance he won’t give you a lot of thought. I’m sorry, it’s hard being an empathetic person. It’s hard to hear but I know my mum thinks very little of me outside of being in her presence.

@Petra42 I appreciate you replying and know it seems like im acting like a nut.

You really aren't. You're being human.

But all im thinking is what if he never contacts me again - does that mean this whole relationship meant nothing?

If this is the end, I think that perhaps he valued it at the time, but it's ended for him, and so he moves on. I'm not sure it's an autistic thing, it's a man thing. Autistic men are perhaps just more abrupt about it.

Hard to say. Before your messages of the last couple of days, how were things left? Had you both acknowledged the living apart thing was an issue he was struggling with? Had there been any heated words?

I have ADHD and that makes me a very emotional person in some matters. I feel everything so acutely! So DP’s refusal to engage was very hard for me at first. I cannot stand bad feeling. I want everything resolved NOW!!!! Are you like me in that respect?

I did have to learn to respect that DP isn’t like me at all. And I got a lot better at leaving things alone, instead of “but what’s wrong???? Why won’t you talk to me?! Please talk!!!!” Which is how I used to respond. I can see how that would be too much for someone who isn’t the same as me.

He learned to say “look, I will talk. Just not now. I will talk when the conditions are right and I feel like it won’t blow up into an argument”. I’m sure that was his intention but invariably the “right time” never arrived. Which I’m sure pleased him to some degree. Our issues would then turn to resentment and blow up at some point. But not always as I also learned to let shit go.

Your issue (which I think is your DP wanting more time with you/possibly moving in together?) is obviously quite a biggie. Not such an easy one to let go or brush under the carpet. It’s not unreasonable of him to want more from a relationship. And it’s not unreasonable of you not to. You have children, as you say, and they are your priority. I would definitely not move him in to appease him. Is there a compromise to be discussed? Perhaps he feels like he’s tried to find a compromise and you’ve dismissed him. Like “well I have children and this is all the availability I have, sorry!” I’m not saying you were blunt like that! But my DP will often have a rather skewed version of what I actually said and how I presented that! And in his mind I’ve just dismissed his views outright! When I haven’t done that at all. Could your DP feel like that perhaps?

I wouldn’t send any more messages for now. I think two in two days is probably enough for someone who prefers to retreat. I’m not sure the inference is that this is the end of the relationship as far as he’s concerned, though as I say, it’s hard to know as we don’t know him and don’t know how you last left things. I wouldn’t panic just yet. Perhaps he is doing what my DP would do and just go a bit quiet for a few days. It’s definitely frustrating if you’re someone who wants to talk things out right away. I think I used to need a lot of reassurance and this was the basis of my need to talk about things there and then. I’d get panicky if things were left. But I don’t find I need that level of reassurance anymore (perhaps the emotional detachment kicking in a bit!) so if he wants to huff or stew for a bit, then I’m fine with that.

If it was me then I wouldn’t read too much into his quiet for now. If he’s not responded by the weekend then I think a firm message asking for him to please let you know where he’s at would be appropriate. Dangling someone and giving them the silent treatment for a week is absolutely not OK. Taking time to think things over and have a break in comms for a couple of days is fine in my view. But that’s based on my relationship with DP and his need to retreat for a few days. I’ve made my peace with that as I know it doesn’t mean anything sinister. Your relationship will of course be different and this may not be OK for you. Xx

@BustyLaRoux i would say im someone who likes an answer straight away and forces him into a corner. I wasnt rude about the kids issue but almost weary and hurt that he sees them as to blame. Maybe its his comms style but its just this constant repetition of the same thing. I do understand he wants more, but there is no discussion or compromise - its always as though i have done something wrong.

Admittedly the longer its left, the less im feeling like its worth pursuing.

I believe Theres a communication style issue between us and our partners @Petra42

But Theres also the struggle with ‘finding a compromise and working things out together’, which dh is incapable to do when it comes to choosing a light, let alone on big things such as living situations,
Ive learnt that I need to state what’s ok for me, and then stop. Dh then makes his own decisions around it. And yes that’s how we ‘solved’ a big issue with where we would live…. That’s not compromise. Theres no discusdion as such. And you need to hold on tightly to your boundaries.
I personally hate it but it gives dh a sense if agency. Because, in the end, HE is the one who decides. (And yes this was a ‘stay put and together or moved but we divorce’ situation for me)
This might work with your DP. Just stating you can only do xyz because your dcs need you. And you’re not going to accept him blaming them. They’re part of the package. And then he can decide.

Another thing is alexithymia. If he is struggling to sort out how he feels, to express why xyz feels impossible etc… any discussion where he needs to lay out his ‘arguments’ will be impossible. (Again, I know dh can’t do that). Instead, he’ll feel cornered and more likely to lash out.

And the ability to put yourself in someone else shoes…. Struggling with us expressing ‘big feelings’ when they need us to be regulated so they can be regulated themselves etc….

I appreciate it probably doesn’t help much just now.
I think it’s a window on the compromises one needs to do to make those relationships work. And maybe that’s the type of compromises you’re willing to make. Or maybe it’s not. Either are ok. And there is no shame in choosing either of them.

@Petra42 would you live with him if it wasn’t for the kids? You sound like the arrangement of living apart would still be your preference even once the kids have left home. Or maybe I’ve misunderstood that. If that is the case then perhaps it’s time to be honest about that. If you would like to live together but only in x years when the kids have left, then he needs to decide if he can wait that long. Third option is you find some kind of compromise. If you want to, that is. Or you end things, as this is too much hard work! Not sure what he’s like apart from this issue. Does he bring you happiness? Is the rest of the relationship ok? Or might you be happier on your own or with someone else? Sounds like you’re a bit weary of this issue but is it a more general weariness about the relationship?

@SpecialMangeTout3 some great points there - i dont know much about alexithymia if im honest so will look into that. But i do recognise im someone who really needs to understand the situation right now so i can handle it. Long periods of time of not speaking dont work for me, i lose interest because i believe the other person has lost interest. For me i really need that regular contact. So im sitting on my hands here losing interest. I feel to write another deep message but then i remind myself that ive reached out twice and not got a reply. I would say my biggest fear is never hearing from him again after investing so much.

@BustyLaRoux its interesting because i could live with him in my home but probably not his. Aside from this, there is a lot of love. But this breeds a lot of resentment i feel, and of course, kids are the most sensitive of topics so anything with them hits a nerve for me. I actually think deep down he enjoys two homes as he has all his own routines in his own place, then he escapes to mine.

I think he perhaps doesn’t realise how difficult he would find it if you moved in together. Maybe that’s just me. I realise I am very particular. I found it very stressful living with other people. My sensory needs are quite particular and I simply can’t have everything my own way as it’s not reasonable when you live with another. It really affected me. I did compromise. Because I had to. But I don’t think DP’s way of doing things was very compatible with mine! Perhaps you two are better suited..? How often does he stay over? It’s sounds like you’d quite like the relationship to continue. But put this issue of living together to bed for now. If he can’t move past that….well then, it’s not gonna work coz he ain’t moving in with you and your kids any time soon. Either he gets over that or he doesn’t. Or if he wants to retreat to the point of cold shouldering you in a massive long huff, then he’s not a keeper.

@BustyLaRoux that's the thing, i could see how it wouldn't be easy on his turf but generally we get on well so elsewhere is fine. Say the kids were off elsewhere, we could stay all week together. But on a normal week, it's 2 evenings (which isn't enough for him). Nor would he manage in a house of children. Ive worked hard to give my children a safe space so I don't want to change that.

Interestingly a friend was the child in a similar scenario where the mum married an autistic man who didn't want the children side. Both she and siblings have gone into dysfunctional relationships themselves and attribute it to their mum effectively choosing this man over their needs. I really don't want that for my kids.

@Petra42 you’re doing the right thing.

Coincidentelly DP has just been here for the evening. We were having a lovely evening (I thought) and cuddling up on the sofa watching a series we like. Then all of a sudden he says he wants to go to bed for sex. I said no! It’s 8:30pm. It’s light still. I’m hot and sweaty. I’m tired from work. That’s not what I thought we were doing. I thought it was chill out and have nice cuddles (which he’s usually up for).

Long horrible conversation with him demanding to know what our long term sex life looks like now and how he won’t be satisfied with just watching TV anymore. When are we supposed to have sex. I’m too busy apparently (though he’s busier than me but he does like to be a hypocrite and try and blame other people if he can!). Why haven’t I considered this? It’s obviously not important to me. Well it is to him. Things have changed and of course he doesn’t went to spend his evenings watching TV.

I said well you’re making me feel cheap and horrible now.

Anyway it all came down to him wanting more of me. Missing me. Wanting more intimacy. Wanting reassurance I guess. Though he could have approached it a lot better. Instead he got annoyed and basically demanded to know when we were going to have sex and said he might as well leave then! Which was shit of him.

So yeah, I made him leave.

I realise it came from a place of insecurity. I realise he doesn’t have the skills to ask for an adult conversation about feelings. And said I was sorry he’d spoiled a perfectly nice evening but even though he apologised he still needed to leave as I wasn’t going to lie next to him (snoring) while I lay there unable to sleep because once again I was too wound up and upset.

Although I am wound up, I also feel quite empowered. I don’t have to put up with this shit anymore. He realised by the end that he’d handled it badly and thought he could just say sorry and that would be fine. But I wasn’t having it. An apology is fine but I can’t switch off feeling upset like a tap. And if he’s lying next to me I won’t be able to relax or get to sleep. I’m not having my precious sleep ruined by him so he can bugger off!

Good grief, Busty.

I need a pink kettle, that sounds wonderful

It sounds like actually you -are- losing interest in him. You, yourself, your own feelings are changing.

May I ask why you are fighting your own feelings here? What, being blunt, is the reason to keep working at keeping the relationship going when his needs in terms of communication are very different from your needs, and you are actually getting to the point of not being interested yoruself any more?

@DucklingSwimmingInstructress It's tough though because I feel stronger in the daytime when I have lots of distractions but say now, in the night, my other thoughts are the very loving times, happy times together where I felt so happy, loved and understood. Logically I should take note of how he has not been in touch but I miss him hugely. There is an emptiness without him.

Our brains are weird. I wonder why they so easily seem to skirt over the bad behaviour and only remember the good. It’s like it can’t look at a whole picture of someone. But then I suppose everyone has good and bad points.

Well then perhaps you’re not ready for it to end. It’s OK to have one partner who has a need to talk things out and one who prefers to retreat. As long as you can find a middle ground. You’ve sent a couple of messages. Today is only Wednesday. I wouldn’t catastrophise about the end of the relationship just yet. Maybe wait til Friday and send message which says something about understanding things have been difficult, you’ve been trying to give him some space as you know he doesn’t want to feel pressured to talk when he isn’t ready. You do love him and have missed him and please could he let you know he’s OK. If he doesn’t reply to that, then he’s an asshole. In which case I’d say ignoring someone for a week is petty, abusive and not very grown up. If he doesn’t want a relationship anymore then he needs to behave like an adult and speak to you, rather than ghost you like some teenager. So yes perhaps a couple more days and another supportive reach out message but then if he refuses to respond then call him out on it. That’s what I would do. I can’t say whether it’s the right thing to do in your case. You know him best. But if he does ignore you for a week then I’d be asking myself whether the lovely times were really worth it for someone who thinks this behaviour is actually OK. It certainly isn’t OK. And if he does this regularly then I’d be questioning whether this is the right man for you.

I understand.

@BustyLaRoux i would add he has form for doing this from before but i guess i hoped as we had such a great, happy time this last year or so, that he wouldnt treat me this way. If he were making any sort of effort, i think id be jumping back into things as i love him so much but nil effort/ignoring everything is very hurtful

What changed if he stopped doing that for a year or so?

But yes, I agree. This is not an ok behaviour, ND or not.
And I think you need to ask yourself what message you’re sending if you carry on in a relationship where your partner is clearly learning that ghosting you like this (stonewalling?) is ok to do….

Im sorry. It’s shitty behaviour and it must be heartbreaking for you.

The silent treatment is certainly not OK. However to play devils advocate for a second:
you say he had form for this but you hoped this last year of happiness would mean that he no longer behaves like that. But have you had an explicit conversation about why it’s not OK. How it’s abusive to do that to someone even if he doesn’t see it that way? In short, have you been clear this is your boundary? I suppose expecting someone to know you’re not OK with it isn’t enough (because it should be obvious. Silent treatment is just not cool surely everyone gets that. Apparently they don’t though!)
If your answer to the above is “yes very clear!” then ignore this bit: for my DP he just doesn’t agree he is doing the silent treatment. At least it’s not how he sees it. He says..
He is processing his thoughts and needs some time.
He should be allowed to take his time and not feel pressured into a conversation he isn’t ready to have as that feels unfair and oppressive.
He thinks it will escalate into an argument so thinks we both need some time to get over the upset we’re feeling before we come back together otherwise we risk having a row.

I’ve replied OK, I understand where you’re coming from. I still think cordial relations are perfectly reasonable. We don’t have discuss “the issue”, but we can still chit chat about our day or whatever. Silence or one word answers are cruel and abusive.

But it goes to show that perhaps in the mind of an autistic person they’re doing what they think is the right thing to do. Perhaps how it makes YOU feel when they do that needs spelling out as an empathetic response isn’t a natural response for my DP, but if I explain it in no uncertain terms then he can learn it as a behaviour rule. As in he can learn: Silent treatment = not socially acceptable to others even if upset/annoyed > send cordial
message to let DP know I am not ignoring her.

Being very explicit has helped with things like this. But possibly you’ve already been through all this with him and he’s still doing it. In which case as I say, I think one more polite message slightly more pressing for just a “hello, yes I’m fine, how’s you?” from him. And if he ignores that then he’s not a great partner and doesn’t care if you’re upset. And as pages and pages and pages on here go to show, we need our partners to care about us and SHOW they care. Otherwise what’s in it for us??

What’s he doing with this time? Simply ignoring as a punishment and in the hope that you feel guilty and give in to what he wants, to make you suffer, shut down, ghosting, processing, gone on a bender, ran away, led I in bed distraught? That would be the reason I would hate this because it leaves you in the dark and completely confused. That’s not fair and can cause emotional damage to an empathetic person.